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Pythons Linked to Florida Everglades Mammal Decline

I suggest reading "Invasive pythons in the United States" ecology of an introduced predator. This is written by and introduces you to the people doing the real work in the everglades. Great read, and not at all bias towards any side in the whole Python debate.
 
bitsy said:
Uh-oh...

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/01/23/1115226109

The PNAS is a serious, academic, peer-reviewed journal. Difficult to dismiss this as "cranks" unless someone in the pro-reptile community comes up with empirical data to refute the reported findings?
Click to expand...

So, compared to animals displaced by the invasive species "Homo sapiens", which one comes out on top as the most destructive to the environment and other species?
 
bitsy said:
Uh-oh...

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/01/23/1115226109

The PNAS is a serious, academic, peer-reviewed journal. Difficult to dismiss this as "cranks" unless someone in the pro-reptile community comes up with empirical data to refute the reported findings?
Click to expand...
Alright, so? I don't want to sound too pedantic, and I haven't digested this entire document, but this is hardly new information. The everglades is a mess with many invasive species. Virtually everybody acknowledges that this is a problem and that burmese pythons are a part of that problem.
Rich Z said:
So, compared to animals displaced by the invasive species "Homo sapiens", which one comes out on top as the most destructive to the environment and other species?
Click to expand...
Exactly Rich. Just more of the problem and more of the "mess" I mentioned above.

This paper addresses the Florida everglades and only the Florida everglades. Florida already had permiting and chipping legislation. This paper has no bearing whatsoever for 48 other states (minus Hawaii). Federal legislation covering the entire United States is completely unnecessary and counter productive. How does preventing someone from carrying their pet from Ohio to Wyoming help the Florida everglades? If Maine-iacs (what do you call the people of Maine?) suddenly develop an insatiable thirst for live Burmese pythons, this new "python ban" would make it very hard to satiate them. It would be impossible, or at least very hard to transport the live snakes from Florida, where they are environmentally harmful, to Maine, where they can do no harm. The federal government has now destroyed any financial incentive there may have been for individuals to remove these snakes from the everglades. Humans have a great record of eradicating entire species. If the Feds really wanted to encourage control of Burmese Pythons in the everglades they would have declared open season on them and offered an incentive. They obviously did not want to do that.

Yes, I think this paper does add fuel to the fire. And it definitely is just another weapon to be used by the animal rights radicals.
 
Humans have a great record of eradicating entire species. If the Feds really wanted to encourage control of Burmese Pythons in the everglades they would have declared open season on them and offered an incentive. They obviously did not want to do that.
Click to expand...

Huh. That's really not a bad idea. Allow people to collect these wild pythons to turn them either into pets or skins and meat. Not that I like the idea of killing them, but they don't belong in the everglades and there may not be enough people willing to buy these wild caught snakes as pets.
 
I have really wanted to read that book. I wish there was an electronic version. It's on my list, though.
 
I always love when causality is applied to a correlational study. It's considered bad science but they do it anyway to get attention for their study. cause and effect cannot be determined from a coorelation, it's like the first thing they teach you in statistical methods classes.

my personal favorite coorelation: the more churches there are in a town the higher the murder rate.
 
v00kimba00v said:
I always love when causality is applied to a correlational study. It's considered bad science but they do it anyway to get attention for their study. cause and effect cannot be determined from a coorelation, it's like the first thing they teach you in statistical methods classes.

my personal favorite coorelation: the more churches there are in a town the higher the murder rate.
Click to expand...
Excellent point! I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Correlation does not prove causation.
My favorite one is: drowning deaths peak at the same time ice cream consumption increases.
 
Now that the Glades is no longer over run by raccoons (which were artificially abundant because they do so well in disturbed habitat caused by human activity), turtles, crocs, and ground nesting birds will probably increase, I would guess. Of course, feral hogs will still be problematical - they eat pretty much anything.

Whenever there is a change, some species will prosper and some will not. Pythons are just the latest, but certainly not the biggest, of the string of human caused changes that have plagued the Glades for quite a long time.
 
Sorry if I am spamming this thread, but everything seems to be hitting the news today. :laugh:
The Diane Rehm show on NPR will be discussing exotic animals today at 11 AM eastern. One of the guests will be USARK's Andrew Wyatt.
http://thedianerehmshow.org/
 
I am actually writing an article about this problem. It is titled "Pythons of the Everglades: Management, Eradication, Income.

I have to use 6 references 4 of which have to be peer reviewed scientific articles. I have been trying to find the studies on the pythons done in the past few years about the temperatures that they would not be able to survive. In this article I want to present the fact that this is a Florida problem, can bring in money to the state, and bring to light the issues of setting up a "hunting season" and what it really means for the population of the species.
Any help in finding the articles will be drastically appreciated! I have decided to use the article in the OP as one of my references. I plan on using it in a way to compare the python in filling a niche in the ecosystem that has been empty for a while (Florida's large predators, that Humans killed off).
 
Great response Aaron! Just the type of thing we need on our side to counter the arguments in that paper.

The very best of luck - let us know how it goes.
 
Outcast said:
Any help in finding the articles will be drastically appreciated! I have decided to use the article in the OP as one of my references. I plan on using it in a way to compare the python in filling a niche in the ecosystem that has been empty for a while (Florida's large predators, that Humans killed off).
Click to expand...

A great couple of studies were in the book I mentioned. Might help you form some great ideas for your paper.
 
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Cats are destroying more of the environment and killing more animals than the burms ever will. Did you know that cats can have a devastating effect on songbird populations, and kill over 1 billion small animals each year? Yet no one wants to do anything about the cats...they're too cute.
 
I hate feral cats. They should be allowed to be hunted. But that would never happen because they are usually concentrated near towns and such. Didnt one of the "W" states give landowners the permission to kill cats on their properties?
 
Nightline just broadcast a segment on this issue. I am surprised it wasn't a 100% biased hit piece. I definitely have to give major kudos to the reporter who was willing to go out and play with snakes.
Some surprising quotes: (surprising that a mainstream media outlet would actually broadcast it)
"[the everglades has] a number of other pressures, so its kind of a death of a thousand cuts"
"there is almost no information really or very little about what this population is really doing"
"they rarely find them"
My personal favorite, basically admitting to political hype:
" the 150,000 was really perpetuated by politicians, politicians got a hold of the top end of the scale and even the biologist who came up with that says it is unrealistic."
Most of the report seemed to concentrate on "hapless reporter scared of snakes." In the end, the python pooped on him.
Maybe ABC isn't a complete and utter loss like so many others.
The piece should be available online at http://abcnews.go.com/nightline eventually.

Edit: I found an ABC news blog on the same topic. Its much more "meh" and biased than the Nightline segment but it still seems to avoid so much of the hype and basically boils down to a big giant "We don't know"
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2012/01/burmese-pythons-invading-the-everglades/
 
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