Nova_C
New member
We've been doing pretty good without this kind of condescension so far, KJUN, let's keep it that way.
Besides, are you really saying all Canadians and Brits are serfs?
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Queston for hunters...
- Thread starter kathylove
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We've been doing pretty good without this kind of condescension so far, KJUN, let's keep it that way.
Besides, are you really saying all Canadians and Brits are serfs?
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
I believe what he meant to say, was that if "Canadians and Brits" do not have firearms, then yes they are serfs. They have no way to defend themselves from criminals or tyranny.
If the "Brits" had disarmed the colonists 200+ years ago, I would not be living in the greatest country in the world (TEXAS).
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
Harder since the thread started, or harder now in general.
:crazy01:
D80
A little of both. :eatpointe
Nova_C
New member
Guns are the only way to defend yourself from criminals and tyranny?
That's interesting.
Also, what the hell? Last page people were talking about how FREE America was. Now we're talking about how if you're not armed you're a slave. If you're only free in the US because you are armed and willing to kill, that's not freedom, that's oppression and rebellion and you're welcome to it.
I can tell you this: I am not oppressed in my free socialist nation of Canada, one of the few first world nations that was not born in civil war and earned it's independence through diplomacy.
Violence is not the only answer.
That's interesting.
Also, what the hell? Last page people were talking about how FREE America was. Now we're talking about how if you're not armed you're a slave. If you're only free in the US because you are armed and willing to kill, that's not freedom, that's oppression and rebellion and you're welcome to it.
I can tell you this: I am not oppressed in my free socialist nation of Canada, one of the few first world nations that was not born in civil war and earned it's independence through diplomacy.
Violence is not the only answer.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Come on!! Or HER. That's a pretty sexist comment! It's not just guys that break into houses.
D80
Nova_C
New member
Turning every break-in into a standoff isn't my idea of being safe, either. Besides, I don't fear a break-in and, going back to 'freedom', I don't think living in fear is all that liberating.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
You see it is about personal responsibility. If I get sick I am personally responsible to pay my doctor fees. Since I have a job and insurance I can afford those fees.
Now how did I get a job? hmm let me think? oh yeah, I paid for a college education and then I paid for more college education (to get certification) and then I went and found a job that paid me money (no wompum or shiny beads for me). You see, I had to work for that money and that insurance. I have personal responsibility.
Should someone who has no job and no education receive a "free ride"? Not at all, there is a point where one must be personally responsible for their actions.
That being said, should I help people that hit hard times or have something drastic and unforeseeable happen in their lives? By all means. But, it is not the job of government to tell me how and which people I should help. It is my choice who I should help and how I should help them.
Oh yeah back to guns. It is not about violence, it is about the ability to defend oneself.
Can I have your street address? I would like to visit you during the middle of the night, some random evening during the next year.
Seriously, would you give it to me? Because I know for a fact that you can not defend yourself against what I have.
Likewise, with gun control, criminals will still get guns, that is unavoidable. But the "controlled" will be up a creek.
If you want I can give you my address, I do not mind if you visit me in the night, I am well defended and I have laws that would allow me to shoot you if you are on my property, so no worries on my end. Can you say the same?
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
Come on!! Or HER. That's a pretty sexist comment! It's not just guys that break into houses.
D80
LOL, yeah. Or HER!
Nova_C
New member
No I can't.
It's a philosophical difference. I don't believe shooting someone who's on your property should be okay because I don't believe killing people is okay. There needs to be a damn good reason and trespass is not a good reason.
Also, your method of argument is to make a veiled threat to harm me? I mean, I get what you're saying, but that's a pretty clumsy way to go about it. I also think it's patently ridiculous. There's a lot more harm that could be done to me by people who get my address than simply try to break into my house and shoot me.
PS. Are you telling me that everyone who has a job in the US can afford health care? That's definitely not the impression I get from your media or your government, but then again, I could be very wrong.
I see health care as a necessity that should be provided by the government because A) I don't believe there's enough generosity in the average person to ensure everyone has basic coverage and B) I don't begrudge the people that require help even if it's coming out of my pocket in taxes.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
You must have misunderstood, I never said I wanted to break in and shoot you, I only said I wanted to pay you a visit. You have no idea what I want to do. Maybe I want to harm you, maybe I want to steal your sankes, maybe I only want to hide from the cops, or maybe I want your money or perhaps I am blood thirsty.
(please understand, that I personally do not want to harm you or your family in any way, I am only making a point)
You see, if someone breaks into my home, I have no idea what they want there. I am not going to give them the chance to say "excuse me, do you have any Grey pupon?". Maybe they want to kill me, or rape me, or rob me, or laugh at me, or just say hi; but I assure you, if they come into my home, especially at night, unannounced, they will meet a dear friend of mine - Mr. Springfield, and it will not end well for them. I on the other hand, will be alive.
No I didn't say everyone with a job can afford health care. I am saying that everyone is personally responsible for themselves. Their actions (as adults and as teenagers) directly affects what happens in their life. If they choose to smoke pot through high school and get a GED and go to work at McDonalds, that is the choice they made. They are responsible for that choice. I am not responsible (i.e. taxes) for their choice.
If someone gets in a wreck and cannot work, and needs some food or a bill paid, should I help them? HECK YES, I should. But, it is not the .gov responsibility to make me. If I do not want to, I should not be forced to unwillingly give up what I have worked hard for.
JNugent
Addicted..
Trespassing is a perfect reason to shoot someone. If they're not invited and unexpected, what are they doing here? I'm not gonna stand around and use diplomacy to see why they're there, what they're intentions are, if they're armed, whatever. You'll get a firm warning to leave, and the red dot of a laser sight on you. If you still hang around after that, sorry for you. It's just the way it is. I have a family to protect. And besides, what stranger shows up in the middle of the night to your house and breaks in to have a chit-chat? No one enters that way with good intentions. I also have the inherent right to protect my property and what is mine in addition to human life. I worked hard to get where I'm at today, and I appreciate the things I own. You know why? Because I *earned* them. Through blood, sweat, and tears.. literally. No hand outs necessary. No welfare, no social programs. Which I feel needs major reform in the country as it is. This is a country which allows everyone the opportunity to better themselves or their situation. The argument that people are products of their environment is a tired one. Some people just make better decisions and take advantage of things more than others. I can think of tons of examples of people who came out from lower class and through hard work and perseverance, got somewhere in the lives and bettered themselves. Even better, not on anyone else's dollar.
Nova_C
New member
JNugent, I guess the debate is at a standstill then. I don't know how to answer your post because I cannot fathom that kind of complete disregard for others. I hope things continue to work out for you and your own, however, and that you won't find it necessary to shoot someone in your home.
Mike: So long as the invader is not armed, or you're faster, then yes, you will be alive. My experience has taught me escalation is a poor response to crisis, however. Dealing with violent people is something that I used to do regularly as an inner city security guard, but at no point did I wish I had a gun to shoot them with. It was never necessary. I'm still alive and the people who were trespassing are still alive. I can't think of a better outcome.
As far as people being responsible for their own lives, you're absolutely right. I agree. Doesn't really say the government can't provide help for people who have fallen on hard times, whether by their own fault or no.
A couple of years ago, home prices in Calgary skyrocketed. They doubled in just two or three years. There were several months were the price of the average home went up by $30,000 - $50,000 per month. Calgary's homeless rate grew quickly while the unemployment rate was down to less than %2. Popular opinion was that since Calgary had recently opened a new homeless shelter it was drawing homeless in from other cities, which was completely false. People couldn't afford to rent since along with home prices it shot up, and ended up living out of their cars or on the street. They lost their homes by no fault of their own, but in one of Canada's most generous cities, people continued to show nothing but contempt for the homeless.
I do not trust there to be enough people like you. One man can't help the thousands that are abandoned by everyone else.
Mike: So long as the invader is not armed, or you're faster, then yes, you will be alive. My experience has taught me escalation is a poor response to crisis, however. Dealing with violent people is something that I used to do regularly as an inner city security guard, but at no point did I wish I had a gun to shoot them with. It was never necessary. I'm still alive and the people who were trespassing are still alive. I can't think of a better outcome.
As far as people being responsible for their own lives, you're absolutely right. I agree. Doesn't really say the government can't provide help for people who have fallen on hard times, whether by their own fault or no.
A couple of years ago, home prices in Calgary skyrocketed. They doubled in just two or three years. There were several months were the price of the average home went up by $30,000 - $50,000 per month. Calgary's homeless rate grew quickly while the unemployment rate was down to less than %2. Popular opinion was that since Calgary had recently opened a new homeless shelter it was drawing homeless in from other cities, which was completely false. People couldn't afford to rent since along with home prices it shot up, and ended up living out of their cars or on the street. They lost their homes by no fault of their own, but in one of Canada's most generous cities, people continued to show nothing but contempt for the homeless.
I do not trust there to be enough people like you. One man can't help the thousands that are abandoned by everyone else.
JNugent
Addicted..
Then we shall agree to disagree on my methodology. However, I don't feel I have a complete disregard for others. I'm not saying they walk through the door and I open up in a hail of gunfire from my "assault rifle" without reason. I will let them know first, that they are on private property in violation of the law and secondly, that they either leave immediately, surrender until the authorities arrive or as a last resort, they WILL be shot. Again, if someone wants to hang around after all that, I can only assume they have hostile intent and/or a death wish. In which case, I would be giving them what they want, no? I think that if you'd spent some time in my shoes, and the many I've served with, you would see things in a different light. I do not crave violence, nor do I particularly care for it as a means of solving problems. I do in fact, believe it to be necessary only when all other means have failed. I have seen when all other means fail. I have seen humanity at it's absolute worst and witnessed the effects first hand of random, senseless violence while I was deployed. But diplomacy and reason does not work on all people. Believe me, I wish it was that easy. That we could have just politely asked the radicals and the Taliban over there to just knock it off. Heck, a lot of people I knew and grew to love would still be alive today. I wouldn't of had to call the family of a 22 year old soldier and friend of mine's family to let them know he had lost both of his legs and while he was coming home, he would never be the same. It is those very times, when life and limb are at stake and nothing else has worked, that we have no choice but to fight fire with fire. Big difference between that and complete disregard for other, or using violence with reckless abandon.
Nova_C
New member
Has the fighting changed anything for the better, though? As a soldier (And believe me, I have a great respect for soldiers) do you believe that Americans are safer for the sacrifices you and others like you have made?
The 'shooting a trespasser' thing is, I don't accept that it is ever okay to shoot someone unless they are actively threatening the life of another. If someone refuses to leave your property, you call the police. If they pull out a knife and start coming at you, by all means, shoot them, but for just trespass?
That IS what I call disregard for others.
The 'shooting a trespasser' thing is, I don't accept that it is ever okay to shoot someone unless they are actively threatening the life of another. If someone refuses to leave your property, you call the police. If they pull out a knife and start coming at you, by all means, shoot them, but for just trespass?
That IS what I call disregard for others.