ShipYourReptiles - temp snake shipping halt

[TandJ]

I hope UPS dumps the SYR contract.. It would certainly help tighten up the choices on who to buy from.. We are FedEx Certified because we give a damn about how the animals are shipped, not some back yard breeders trying to flip as many animals as we can to profit as much as we can because someone has a cheaper and uncertified way to ship.. I resented the idea of these low cost shipping deals because I don't recall seeing a test package having to be sent in for verification etc.. What was the name of the last low cost ship your critter deal? I am not suprised to see this one self destruct eithier...


We are just trying to do things right, honest and fair.. Unfortunantly, it has not worked out well for me, but I damn well know I am sleeping well at night..


Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[TandJ]

I think we need to look over the BOI thread.. It seems as if UPS never did give the go ahead on shipping snakes.. Of course I have not read to far, but I caught that part..

Requoting a quote from there..

This quote is off of UPS's web site.


Quote:
Prohibited Live Animals

Live Animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted for transportation include, but are not limited to:


Any poisonous, venomous or threatening animal
Any Threatened or Endangered species
Arachnids (All): Examples: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
Birds (All)
Crocodiles (All): Examples: alligators, caimans, gavials
Mammals (All)
Obnoxious Insects: Examples: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, roaches, termites, weevils
Snakes (All): venomous and non-venomous

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Nanci]

Tim, the guy that owns SYR, I forget his name, faxed his contract to Rich Z. It was authentic.

 

[CrousesCorns]

Nanci you need to read the BOI thread. Rich states there that he was only "read to over the phone the supposed waiver" and never seen anything.

 

[Khaman]

From FaunaClassifieds:

I have to trust Robyn and Rich Z on the contract to ship snakes via UPS. Buried somewhere on this forum the contract got called into question early on and Robyn allowed Rich to see the contract to calm the masses.

That is not precisely accurate. Robyn called me on the phone and read the contract aloud to me over the phone. I have never actually SEEN their contract with UPS itself.

This statement made me reevaluate how I was looking at the issues.

 

[CrousesCorns]

Yep that is some of what I am talking about.... Later on in that thread Rich states it again and gets a little mad at SYR for some statements that have been made.

 

[TandJ]

Tim, the guy that owns SYR, I forget his name, faxed his contract to Rich Z. It was authentic.

Keep reading on Nanci.. I know, a horrible read, but it gets intresting.. *shrugs*

 

[KJUN]

Did anyone notice in the article where it says fedex doesn't ship snakes? If that were the case how is it hundreds of people each year are certified and ship snakes on a daily basis through fedex?

They don't...unless you have a contract with a waiver. For anyone else, they don't. No conflict in my eyes.



Wouldn't this just be a great big black eye for our hobby/industry if it turns out SYR never really DID have a contract allowing them to let people ship SNAKES? Wouldn't it just be peachy if all of the secrets associated with the contract are because snakes were NOT originally waived?

It wouldn't be TOO surprised if that turns out to be the case, but I still would be a little shocked. Sadly, imagine how bad this can make us all look IF that is the case. Either way, the yahoos that send inappropriate snakes or in an inappropriate manner ARE the reason why it was inevitable that such problems WOULD happen. ...and will again if this lack of certification continues. The question will be, "how many yahoo mistakes will UPS tolerate?"


FedEx is going up on there rates - just like all carriers - because of their costs are increasing....just like yours in YOUR house are going up thanks to inflation and other economic factors. Duh! They don't have one rate for snakes and another rate for everything else.

 

[4riscorn]

Did anyone notice in the article where it says fedex doesn't ship snakes? If that were the case how is it hundreds of people each year are certified and ship snakes on a daily basis through fedex?

I had a problem with FedEx once when I wasn't able to be home for shipment, I had to call them to see if they would allow a "hold at fedex location" for live reptiles. The lady freaked and said "FedEx does not allow live animals of any type to be shipped." When I told her that FedEx has been allowing it for years through certification, she flat out told me that if they find out who is doing it then charges would be filed because it is illegal. Luckily I didn't give my name or the shippers name. I told her I would pass the info on. So bogus that all FedEx employees don't know the shipment process of reptiles. It is so frustrating! I hope they don't stop shipment like SYR did. How would any of us ship our animals if they did? Just getting into breeding, I haven't started the certification process. How long does it take? Bella should be laying soon, I hope this time we are right! And I figure by summers' end we should be able to sell some and will have to ship.

 

[CrousesCorns]

My whole problem with this is......If they had this worked out with UPS and had a waiver in hand to read to Rich then why don't they produce it when asked? If I had it and there was 100's or 1000's of emails and calls about it I would scan it and place it in every forum for everyone to see.

It just seems like to me this has been a hoax money making scheme from day one and is just now getting brought to the light.

Once again if this was OK then prove it with the waiver and that is what most people are asking for.

 

[KJUN]

My whole problem with this is......If they had this worked out with UPS and had a waiver in hand to read to Rich then why don't they produce it when asked? If I had it and there was 100's or 1000's of emails and calls about it I would scan it and place it in every forum for everyone to see.

It just seems like to me this has been a hoax money making scheme from day one and is just now getting brought to the light.

Once again if this was OK then prove it with the waiver and that is what most people are asking for.

I vaguely remember them telling another major breeder something about UPS requiring it to be kept confidential for some reason or other. I don't remember the exact story because I did NOT buy it back then, either. Hogwash IMO. Of course (to be honest), it might make good business sense to not let potential customers see your contract. Why make it easier for them to negotiate the same (or better) type of contract themselves? Alsp, they are getting a much better cut than what they give you. Duh - that's their profit. They may not want others to know what their profit margin is. I don't blame them, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

In other words, there are GOOD reason why they wouldn't want the contract made public. It is still suspicious to me, though. ....because the reasons they have given about it have never been the good ones.....lol. Why lie (if they really are!) when the lies sound worse than the true reasons?

 

[CrousesCorns]

I understand it is a business and all the fine details shouldn't be brought to the public's eyes. I am just saying show the paragraph where it says they can ship live non-venomous snakes. It is clear to see on the BOI thread that other reptiles are approved. Has snakes never been approved or waived for SYR and they have been doing it under a basic approved list and are a bunch of liars? I am not saying they are liars, but it sure seems like they are running scared to me.

I mean why hide the snake part from their website and only place the term "snake/s" in the html code. If snakes were/was okay then why do that? If it was okay then why only take emails and phone calls. If it was legal and the guy from Virginia or where ever was violating the rules of the contract why not crucify him/her and quit hiding?

There are way to many questions coming out and WAY to much hiding.

I am a new breeder and I haven't had the need to ship a snake or receive a snake yet. I am sure glad this has happened before I had too.

 

[Nanci]

I apologize for the misinformation Tim, and everyone. I remembered it as Rich had actually seen the contract. I stopped following the story after that because I didn't trust the process and didn't intend to use it from either end, anyway. That might have been what pushed me over the edge to start my own certification.

Gini- if everything goes smoothly expect it to take about a month. This depends on not having a problem getting the test package shipped and most importantly getting an account rep who is familiar with the process and is helpful.

 

[TandJ]

I apologize for the misinformation Tim, and everyone

No apology needed Nanci.. I figured it would unravel itself a little further on..


:noevil::cheers:

 

[medusacoils]

After reading that BOI thread, I'm thinking of going back and change my site and TOS. That was a nightmare. Why would someone post like that, when their business is in jeopardy?

Gini- if everything goes smoothly expect it to take about a month. This depends on not having a problem getting the test package shipped and most importantly getting an account rep who is familiar with the process and is helpful.

Amen To this!!!

Wayne

 

[Silvergrin]

I will be really pissed if SYR never /officially/ had permission to ship snakes - I believe I asked specifically about why the UPS site specifically said no snakes, and I don't remember the specific answer but I had the impression it was rather like how most fedex employees insist they don't ship snakes.
Regardless, I'm not "sneaking" snakes through SYR if the intention of this email is to just cover their butts but have people continue to use it to ship snakes. -- but that's all wild speculation. All in all, I'm glad I have fedex certification!

One question to those who ship fedex - do you clearly label your boxes with "Live harmless reptile - elaphe guttata guttata (#)"??

 

[Susan]

One question to those who ship fedex - do you clearly label your boxes with "Live harmless reptile - elaphe guttata guttata (#)"??

I plead ignorance of the total legalities when I first started shipping as to why I didn't have everything on the outside of the box, but I can say that for the past several years, all my boxes have been labeled with scientific and common species name and "Live harmless snake(s)" (sometimes I use "reptile", but not often).

 

[KJUN]

What we do is label the box as "Live Harmless Snakes." The receipt has the common and scientific names - and quantities - of all snakes in the package. The receipt is then attached to the outside of the box with a shipping invoice package. Moe the meets all of the legal requirements, makes it easier for us getting lots of packages together on one day, AND looks great to the recipient!

One question to those who ship fedex - do you clearly label your boxes with "Live harmless reptile - elaphe guttata guttata (#)"??

I plead ignorance of the total legalities when I first started shipping as to why I didn't have everything on the outside of the box, but I can say that for the past several years, all my boxes have been labeled with scientific and common species name and "Live harmless snake(s)" (sometimes I use "reptile", but not often).

Actually, read the Lacey Act for yourself. You'll be surprised at how little has top be labeled on the OUTSIDE of the box.

 

[Nanci]

I label mine with Live Cargo on three sides, and Live Harmless Reptiles ___Pantherphis guttatus on one side. An invoice is the first thing you see if you open the box, with the common name, scientific name and description.

But actually to comply with Lacey it should say "Wildlife" (or the common name) on the outside of the package, as a minimum, and have an "easily accessible" (as in a packing slip envelope) invoice which lists the name and address of the shipper and consignee, states the total number of packages or containers in the shipment, and for each species in the shipment specifies:

(A) The common name that identifies the species (examples include: Chinook (or king) salmon; bluefin tuna; and whitetail deer) and whether or not the listed species is venomous; and

(B) The number of that species (or other appropriate measure of quantity such as gross or net weight).

So I think I will change my method a little bit next time.

 

[Silvergrin]

Ah, fabulous. LOL I wasn't trying to be labeling police, just I do want to be compliant with the Lacy Act and was slightly worried about what kind of reception a properly labeled box might meet. Good to know they've shipped fine for others, thanks!