ZoologyGirl
Under Tank Heather
I find the above 'conversation' particularly ironic...or is hypocritical the right word.
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Some People... (rant!)
- Thread starter Cornsnake124
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- Status
I find the above 'conversation' particularly ironic...or is hypocritical the right word.
danielle
New member
My parents were vegetarians for most of my childhood until I cooked up some cranberry smoked bacon when I was 22 (true story). They eat meat now,lol but not all the time- its just not for them. I happen to love meat...all meat actually and consume meat everyday. I also love veggies and eat them just as often. The thing is we abuse our environment in 100 ways everyday. We all waste energy, pollute in some way, don't recycle everything, use paper, and other necessities because they are necessities.
Unless you (not meaning anyone specific) live in a man made hut made from mud, sticks, or straw, grow all your own food with no chemicals, do not use electricity, gas, or any other natural resources you can't point fingers at how meat eating hurts the environment because you do to. I'm pretty environmentally friendly I don't drive and take public transit or my own two feet, do not use the dryer I hang my clothes, wash my dishes with my own hands, and use energy saving light bulbs, but I still abuse the environment.
Unless you (not meaning anyone specific) live in a man made hut made from mud, sticks, or straw, grow all your own food with no chemicals, do not use electricity, gas, or any other natural resources you can't point fingers at how meat eating hurts the environment because you do to. I'm pretty environmentally friendly I don't drive and take public transit or my own two feet, do not use the dryer I hang my clothes, wash my dishes with my own hands, and use energy saving light bulbs, but I still abuse the environment.
Dinah
New member
I have been reading this thread all day and I have really debated with myself as to whether or not I should add my 2 cents but here goes.
First full disclosure. My family does eat meat although, only in limited amounts and mostly fish for fowl. That being said I have not found a better burger anywhere than the ones my husband makes with a combination ground turkey/ground sirloin meat mixture, so obviously we have some red meat in our diets as well. Some weeks we might have meat several times, some weeks none, it just depends on what is on the menu.
Now for the points I wanted to make.
The reason that many people say that not eating meat is good for world hunger is because it takes 16 lbs of grain to make 1 lb of meat. So when you consider that most grain is corn, wheat, etc obviously many more people can eat from 16 lbs than can eat from 1 lb. And even if we set aside 'global warming' as an issue there are obvious environmental effects and sustainability issues to having to produce so much grain to create only so much meat. The land we need to grow the food, plus the land to farm the animals, plus the transporting of the feed to the animals, etc, etc this could go on and on. But whether you believe in Global warming or not pollution and environmental damage are still a concern to everyone, because even if we are not creating the warming we still only have just this one environment and most people would like for it to stay in good shape
That being said yes it is true Peta, and associates can often times be counterproductive. I know from just my own observations often PETA is the group pulling the stunts but when my sister and I went to the location of a future development in town to dig up and relocate the gopher tortoises before the bulldozers came to effectively bury them alive, there was not a signal PETA person there to help. So again just from my experience PETA may not be the most helpful organization when there is actual hard work to be done. Also again in the name of full disclosure of my personal biases I do not like how PETA targets young people without a lot of life experience/perspective. I feel like they exploit these young people making them feel like they are warriors for animal rights when PETA really just uses them as a free marketing/labor force.
Despite my 'beef':rofl: with PETA I do believe that animals can feel pain and can suffer, I think it is important for everyone to be really informed about where their food comes from and to speak with your wallets and your votes with regards to what you consider to be acceptable in terms of the treatment of animals, including the ones who give their lives to nourish many of us.
True it is very thoughtful to provide a salad for the non meat eaters and likewise it is very thoughtful to provide food that will be enjoyed by those who do eat meat. But that does not mean that a non meat eater should be required to provide a meat option. As an example, I just had my brother (a big time meat eater) and his girlfriend down for dinner a few weeks ago. We had spaghetti without meat sauce, it was just regular sauce. Certainly even someone who is used to eating meat in their spaghetti will be fine with spaghetti that does not have meat in it.
Regardless of what people believe personally regarding meat, as well as other dietary issues, I do have to leave ya'll with a thought.
Ms. Manners would definitely disapprove of people telling others what to cook and serve either on a daily basis, and/or for a particular event (the exception being some sort of allergy issue). Host/Hostess are obligated to do their very best to provide for the good time of their guests and guests are obligated to mind their own business and do their very best to have a good time. If you have strict dietary concerns then don't come to a party starving, and perhaps have a snack in your bag. Or Better yet offer to bring a covered dish.
Looking over my post clearly this is more like my 4 cents or possibly more. Really I do try to be brief <sigh> :rofl:
First full disclosure. My family does eat meat although, only in limited amounts and mostly fish for fowl. That being said I have not found a better burger anywhere than the ones my husband makes with a combination ground turkey/ground sirloin meat mixture, so obviously we have some red meat in our diets as well. Some weeks we might have meat several times, some weeks none, it just depends on what is on the menu.
Now for the points I wanted to make.
The reason that many people say that not eating meat is good for world hunger is because it takes 16 lbs of grain to make 1 lb of meat. So when you consider that most grain is corn, wheat, etc obviously many more people can eat from 16 lbs than can eat from 1 lb. And even if we set aside 'global warming' as an issue there are obvious environmental effects and sustainability issues to having to produce so much grain to create only so much meat. The land we need to grow the food, plus the land to farm the animals, plus the transporting of the feed to the animals, etc, etc this could go on and on. But whether you believe in Global warming or not pollution and environmental damage are still a concern to everyone, because even if we are not creating the warming we still only have just this one environment and most people would like for it to stay in good shape
That being said yes it is true Peta, and associates can often times be counterproductive. I know from just my own observations often PETA is the group pulling the stunts but when my sister and I went to the location of a future development in town to dig up and relocate the gopher tortoises before the bulldozers came to effectively bury them alive, there was not a signal PETA person there to help. So again just from my experience PETA may not be the most helpful organization when there is actual hard work to be done. Also again in the name of full disclosure of my personal biases I do not like how PETA targets young people without a lot of life experience/perspective. I feel like they exploit these young people making them feel like they are warriors for animal rights when PETA really just uses them as a free marketing/labor force.
Despite my 'beef':rofl: with PETA I do believe that animals can feel pain and can suffer, I think it is important for everyone to be really informed about where their food comes from and to speak with your wallets and your votes with regards to what you consider to be acceptable in terms of the treatment of animals, including the ones who give their lives to nourish many of us.
True it is very thoughtful to provide a salad for the non meat eaters and likewise it is very thoughtful to provide food that will be enjoyed by those who do eat meat. But that does not mean that a non meat eater should be required to provide a meat option. As an example, I just had my brother (a big time meat eater) and his girlfriend down for dinner a few weeks ago. We had spaghetti without meat sauce, it was just regular sauce. Certainly even someone who is used to eating meat in their spaghetti will be fine with spaghetti that does not have meat in it.
Regardless of what people believe personally regarding meat, as well as other dietary issues, I do have to leave ya'll with a thought.
Ms. Manners would definitely disapprove of people telling others what to cook and serve either on a daily basis, and/or for a particular event (the exception being some sort of allergy issue). Host/Hostess are obligated to do their very best to provide for the good time of their guests and guests are obligated to mind their own business and do their very best to have a good time. If you have strict dietary concerns then don't come to a party starving, and perhaps have a snack in your bag. Or Better yet offer to bring a covered dish.
Looking over my post clearly this is more like my 4 cents or possibly more. Really I do try to be brief <sigh> :rofl:
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
That's my dream life! When the kids are grown my husband and I plan to live exactly that way. Only in a yurt ...not a hut. Oh, and a veggie fueld vw camper van
No electricity and a gray water system. I can't wait!
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
But, a yurt is hand made so maybe it does count as a hut. Either way I dream of it everyday!
Michael823
New member
Yurts are actually amazing little structures. My aunt and uncle ordered one for my cousin to live in behind their house (spoiled), and let me tell you... it was no hut. It was actually the type of living that I would dream of having (although I do love my house). It was so basic, yet so nicely and efficiently constructed. It's like a little miniature home, with the amenities that most households have.
It really seems like a great way to live, and you can have yurts that are made to just about any specs that you'd like. My uncle helped a family friend add to their existing yurt, which I believe is two stories, or two the size of two (not sure), which is certainly adequate for most smaller families.
Sorry for the long off topic post, but I too would love to have a yurt to call home someday!
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
Wow! You'r posts are awesome and you know about yurts!! Come have a vegan dinner and lots of beer with us! Let's start a commune ;-) haha
Dinah
New member
My screen name is Dinah like the cat, I try to spend my free time napping under shady trees with very imaginative children, and popping down the occasional rabbit hole in pursuit of white rabbits with pocket watches.
Thanks for the welcome
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
YBH your one of kind,lol I will admit there are modern ammenities I can give up, but electricity and running water are not two of them
LOL~ ty! Not a problem for me. Will do it any day and still remain thankfulfor soil. (food) I also like the ability to can and you can do that without electricity.
Michael823
New member
I could do without electricity if I had to, but it would honestly take some major adjusting. I would also have to move as far away from NH as possible, because the winter weather is really wearing on me when the power goes out, and I just couldn't deal with the short days of confinement with snow up to my waist. So long as I could remain warm, as well have my dogs and other pets, I feel like I could fair well without. When I was very little we practically lived without all modern amenities, and sometimes even without running water. I was fairly used to a life that wasn't dependent on luxuries until I moved to this area at the age of 9, but it has been for the better.
Since then I've become completely domesticated, and I really haven't looked back. I just really wish I could become less dependent on things such as electricity, running water, and a constant supply of food, because you really never know. I feel like I'm resourceful, efficient, and relatively adaptable, but the adjustment would still be very hard for me.
Since then I've become completely domesticated, and I really haven't looked back. I just really wish I could become less dependent on things such as electricity, running water, and a constant supply of food, because you really never know. I feel like I'm resourceful, efficient, and relatively adaptable, but the adjustment would still be very hard for me.
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
I only wish I was as smart as you at 22. Congrats! You make society a better place. TY`
Michael823
New member
You don't know how much that means to me, thank you so much! But I feel like I have far too much to learn/give to truly feel deserving that statement.
yellowbellyhippy
PaganVeganHippie!
airenlow
hope is not a strategy
I have Susan...I just wanted to make somebody cite their sources. I'm evil like that! :dgrin:
dave partington
Crazy Dave
All this talk about food makes me
so hungry I could eat a Panda.
so hungry I could eat a Panda.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
This thread is very nostalgic!
Back in the '70s and '80s, I lived for each new issue of Mother Earth News and Organic Gardening! I feasted my eyes and imagination on the photos and descriptions of backyard chickens, home made vertical axis wind generators (made from 55 gallon drums), and even YURTS! Since we lived in a little mobile home on 2 acres, we actually got to try our hands at chickens, turkeys, goats, and various methods of organic gardening. Never made any home made energy devices, though.
Now we live on 20 acres, but there are so many raccoons and other small predators that we never set up chickens here because they would need to be cooped up. But I am growing some nice tropical greens during the summer, and some garden veggies in the winter. I do miss the chickens, though. Now I raise feeder roaches to recycle the kitchen waste that I used to give to chickens.
After my experience as a hobby farmer, I can say that some small scale livestock raising can be a really thrifty use of resources. Actually, I believe that one of the BEST recycling, "back to nature" projects that could be encouraged for typical suburban homeowners would be for each interested household to keep a few hens. Compared to a pet dog, a few hens would be quieter, make less mess, be less risky as far biting or attacking neighbors, etc, all the while producing eggs, fertilizer, AND recycling kitchen waste that would normally go into the disposal or landfill. And possibly the MOST important benefit is that suburban children who normally grow up divorced from almost everything natural, believing that meat is manufactured and wrapped in plastic, would get to learn about "the circle of life", and the whole food chain, FIRST HAND!
Most of our grandparents did all of this, and more. They actually killed and butchered the chickens and other meat that was put on their table. Although most suburban parents probably would not be that "brave", I think there would be great merit for those who were able to follow through the whole process, if they choose to eat meat. It is my personal opinion that if a person chooses to eat meat, they should, at least once, take the responsibility to either hunt, or raise, their own meat animal, butcher and process it, and eat it. That may sound brutal to most city dwellers, but I believe such an experience would provide a link to nature and the food chain that is totally lost to super market shoppers. Perhaps those who can't stomach facing the reality of meat production, even once, should reconsider meat eating and become vegetarians. Back on our old 2 acre homestead, we regularly butchered and ate our own chickens, turkeys, and rabbits. Not my favorite thing, but a necessary part of being a carnivore. AND the meat eaten was SO MUCH more healthful, tasty, and easier on the environment, than the factory farmed meat most of us eat now.
I dislike the use of emotional appeals to try to guilt people into doing whatever somebody thinks is "the right thing to do." But I am for the greatest possible variety of personal choices, based upon logical reasoning, the best efficiency of resources, and above all, the acknowledgment of reality and responsibility of the actual consequences of our choices. After taking all of those variables into account, you should do whatever is right for you - IMHO, of course!
Back in the '70s and '80s, I lived for each new issue of Mother Earth News and Organic Gardening! I feasted my eyes and imagination on the photos and descriptions of backyard chickens, home made vertical axis wind generators (made from 55 gallon drums), and even YURTS! Since we lived in a little mobile home on 2 acres, we actually got to try our hands at chickens, turkeys, goats, and various methods of organic gardening. Never made any home made energy devices, though.
Now we live on 20 acres, but there are so many raccoons and other small predators that we never set up chickens here because they would need to be cooped up. But I am growing some nice tropical greens during the summer, and some garden veggies in the winter. I do miss the chickens, though. Now I raise feeder roaches to recycle the kitchen waste that I used to give to chickens.
After my experience as a hobby farmer, I can say that some small scale livestock raising can be a really thrifty use of resources. Actually, I believe that one of the BEST recycling, "back to nature" projects that could be encouraged for typical suburban homeowners would be for each interested household to keep a few hens. Compared to a pet dog, a few hens would be quieter, make less mess, be less risky as far biting or attacking neighbors, etc, all the while producing eggs, fertilizer, AND recycling kitchen waste that would normally go into the disposal or landfill. And possibly the MOST important benefit is that suburban children who normally grow up divorced from almost everything natural, believing that meat is manufactured and wrapped in plastic, would get to learn about "the circle of life", and the whole food chain, FIRST HAND!
Most of our grandparents did all of this, and more. They actually killed and butchered the chickens and other meat that was put on their table. Although most suburban parents probably would not be that "brave", I think there would be great merit for those who were able to follow through the whole process, if they choose to eat meat. It is my personal opinion that if a person chooses to eat meat, they should, at least once, take the responsibility to either hunt, or raise, their own meat animal, butcher and process it, and eat it. That may sound brutal to most city dwellers, but I believe such an experience would provide a link to nature and the food chain that is totally lost to super market shoppers. Perhaps those who can't stomach facing the reality of meat production, even once, should reconsider meat eating and become vegetarians. Back on our old 2 acre homestead, we regularly butchered and ate our own chickens, turkeys, and rabbits. Not my favorite thing, but a necessary part of being a carnivore. AND the meat eaten was SO MUCH more healthful, tasty, and easier on the environment, than the factory farmed meat most of us eat now.
I dislike the use of emotional appeals to try to guilt people into doing whatever somebody thinks is "the right thing to do." But I am for the greatest possible variety of personal choices, based upon logical reasoning, the best efficiency of resources, and above all, the acknowledgment of reality and responsibility of the actual consequences of our choices. After taking all of those variables into account, you should do whatever is right for you - IMHO, of course!
desertanimal
2003 UB313
Chickens are becoming quite popular among the urban hippies, Kathy! When I left in summer 2008, no one I knew had chickens. I came back summer 2009, several people had them! I, myself, hate chickens. I hate them because I have lived with them when I didn't have a house, and neither did they, and I could never keep them out of my rising dough that I baked into bread over a campfire. That, and they ate the frog that was living in our handwashing basin. Damn chickens.
I can and have and will again live for extended periods of time without electricity and running water. And I can and have and will again live for extended periods of time on a veggie diet. But that has taught me a few things about myself. I would miss electricity for three reasons--having a headlamp to walk around at night when the moon isn't out, having a computer to write on, and having the internet and a cell phone to be connected to people. I can do fine without running water. I will never be a vegetarian. Being a vegetarian because I have access to nothing much else only makes me surer that I will never give up meat. I don't eat tons of meat, but I will always eat some meat. However, if I couldn't get meat, fried cicadas are a very good substitute.
I can and have and will again live for extended periods of time without electricity and running water. And I can and have and will again live for extended periods of time on a veggie diet. But that has taught me a few things about myself. I would miss electricity for three reasons--having a headlamp to walk around at night when the moon isn't out, having a computer to write on, and having the internet and a cell phone to be connected to people. I can do fine without running water. I will never be a vegetarian. Being a vegetarian because I have access to nothing much else only makes me surer that I will never give up meat. I don't eat tons of meat, but I will always eat some meat. However, if I couldn't get meat, fried cicadas are a very good substitute.
ruraldean
Old and Getting Older
Try digging into this article, specifically "Manipulation of Data" part way down. The emails can be found on the web (haven't got time now) but the message is "Don't swallow all you're fed". http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...n-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/
Seems the climate isn't doing what the models say it should...
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