Something Worth Noting (Please Read!)

[Caryl]

There is a nice way to tell people stuff and a not so nice way, either way you are giving them the same info. I do want new people here to stay.

...Remember they sometimes get bad advice from pet stores. Maybe best to stay away from these kinds of threads if you feel so passionate about the subject that you can't be civil.

This forum _is_ different.

Burn out on newbies wanting pats on the back for doing it wrong IS understandable. But STOP REPLYING. Go breathe. Get a snake out. Clean tubs. Come back and ask yourself "am I doing this for the snake?".

I couldn't say it better. I'd just like to add that it would be nice if people didn't assume that the number of posts/activity correlates to expertise. I think most people figure out from the way information is presented whether or not the poster has the interests of the snakes, keepers and hobby at heart. It can also be true that people have valid reasons why they are unable to be on the forum for a time. I, for instance, have had a lot of physical problems in the last year and a half that have kept me off keyboards. That doesn't translate to a lack of caring or passion for the hobby.

 

[Outcast]

I couldn't say it better. I'd just like to add that it would be nice if people didn't assume that the number of posts/activity correlates to expertise. I think most people figure out from the way information is presented whether or not the poster has the interests of the snakes, keepers and hobby at heart. It can also be true that people have valid reasons why they are unable to be on the forum for a time. I, for instance, have had a lot of physical problems in the last year and a half that have kept me off keyboards. That doesn't translate to a lack of caring or passion for the hobby.

Honestly the only people I have been seeing throwing out the "Just because I don't have lots of posts" argument, or telling people that post volume is reflective of knowledge, has been new people that have been very argumentative to those trying to give them advice.

Correct me if I am wrong in my observation and I will apologize, but it is what I have been noticing.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I kind of understood that to mean, that having made 1000 posts does not necessarily make you a bigger authority that someone that just has 200. And a newbie might see the # of posts you make and assume that you know more because you post more? (Correct me if I'm wrong as well)
Some people just like to make a lot of posts, others wait until they really have something they want to share. I think I'm kind of in the middle. (A lot of posts but then again that's in 7 years)

 

[toxiclight]

I think both Aaron and Jen have points on this one...it is generally people with lower post-counts who throw out the argument of "just because I don't have X posts..." I don't think I've ever seen one of the frequent posters bash anyone over the head with their numbers or say "I have X posts, therefore my opinion is more valid than yours"

Possibly newbies gravitate toward people who post more...I tended to gravitate toward the ones who provided the most concise, informative answers when I was new here. I rarely look at post count, then or now, because really, a lot of posts can be gotten through DYK and other cooing over hatchlings It's not a terribly accurate way to measure knowledge.

 

[Outcast]

I know what it was supposed to mean, and I agree that just because you have 1000+ posts, it does not mean that you necessarily are the end all know all of the subject at hand, or any subject for that matter. Things would be pretty boring around here if those of us with a large amount of posts, knew everything.

I was just giving my observation as to the people I have seen using post number as a means of argument.

 

[toxiclight]

(I was agreeing with your first point )

 

[Outcast]

(I was agreeing with your first point )

Yeah. I noticed you posted after I had already posted my post... I was responding to ghosthousecorns. :rofl:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I really haven't seen anybody pull the "just because I don't have x number of posts" thing, but then again I will confess that I tend not to look at that many threads. I used to look at every thread every day, now I tend to skip a lot of it unless it is by someone I like or it might be a photo post of a morph I want to see or a thread (like this one) with a title that makes it intriguing. It's partly that I don't have enough time, and partly that I got a little burned out on the same old same old (help! I have eggs! OMG look at this poo is it normal?) So I probably miss a lot of this kind of thing.

 

[Outcast]

I really haven't seen anybody pull the "just because I don't have x number of posts" thing, but then again I will confess that I tend not to look at that many threads. I used to look at every thread every day, now I tend to skip a lot of it unless it is by someone I like or it might be a photo post of a morph I want to see or a thread (like this one) with a title that makes it intriguing. It's partly that I don't have enough time, and partly that I got a little burned out on the same old same old (help! I have eggs! OMG look at this poo is it normal?) So I probably miss a lot of this kind of thing.

You don't like looking at poo!?! I love looking at poo! LOL, Just kidding.

I am getting there, Usually I tend to look at the controversial threads, or DYK, and pictures. I love seeing pictures of morphs and stuff. But it is usually in the threads that are controversial topics that I see the "just because I don't have (so and so) posts" statements.

 

[Caryl]

...Correct me if I am wrong in my observation and I will apologize, but it is what I have been noticing.

No apologies needed.

I kind of understood that to mean, that having made 1000 posts does not necessarily make you a bigger authority that someone that just has 200. And a newbie might see the # of posts you make and assume that you know more because you post more? (Correct me if I'm wrong as well)
Some people just like to make a lot of posts, others wait until they really have something they want to share. I think I'm kind of in the middle. (A lot of posts but then again that's in 7 years)

Yeah, this is a fair summary of what I meant. I was apparently unclear, sorry for the confusion. I also meant - though didn't express clearly - that just because someone's been out of touch/not on the forum for a while one shouldn't figure that it's due to lack of interest or desire. Probably most people don't think that way, but I've occasionally run across a "you haven't been around, you obviously don't know or care" type remark. Not necessarily so; sometimes life just gets in the way.

 

[kathylove]

I can definitely see BOTH sides of this question...

I totally agree that it is counter productive to scold or talk down to newbies asking questions. BUT - if you look at MOST of the threads in which that happened, the newbies asked one of "those" questions that have been debated ad nauseum here, with pretty much the same result each time. In addition, the newbie usually would not accept the answers given, but kept trying and trying to get the answer they wanted. They often became very defensive, and eventually the "old timers" could bite their tongues no longer. Of course, some members have a MUCH shorter fuse than others, lol!

I consider myself to be a very practical person. Since experience tells me that being blunt and saying exactly what is on my mind at that time probably won't get the results I want, I either bow out of the discussion, or continue to be factual and diplomatic in the discussion. You can get more flies with honey than vinegar, haha! And if not, then why bother to continue the debate? Leave before your blood boils away completely!

That is just my opinion, of course. But I find fault with both the argumentative newbie (If that is the case) AND the short fused debaters, at least in many instances. I just refuse to participate once the thread is beyond redemption. And that is a choice open to anyone.

 

[Em Wright]

I think it's a little unfair to say "that person presented the information badly and therefore I won't listen to them". You have to keep in mind that these are living creatures we're discussing and that many of us care deeply for their well being. It's easy to lose your cool when you read about someone's snake that lost an eye due to a live mouse, but the owner refuses to change their ways. That snake is suffering and in danger and a stubborn human is refusing to put the snake's needs FIRST. It's like that with a lot of the "big" discussions; cohabbing, feeding live, etc.

On the other hand, I agree that at a point you need to back away and get out of the conversation. When all you see is red, you're no longer helping "the cause" and it's best to bow out and either let someone else take over or let the conversation drop altogether.

As for beating the dead horse... Sometimes, when you come up to the carcass you just feel the need to get your own licks in with a club! You want to make your view heard, perhaps you'll say something differently, that will convince someone... And other times, you just want to play too!

I know I'm guilty of losing my cool and of beating the dead horse. I tend to stay away from areas where the threads I find frustrating are at. Which is everything but the Photo Gallery, Breeding section (for the baby pics!), personal forums and the For Sale area (there are usually pretty pictures there too!!).

To the OP. Don't let heated posts discourage you from what is best FOR YOUR PETS. Your statement that you want to disregard negative posts in spite of correct information reflects poorly on you and I hope you never actually do that. Our pets depend on us to make the right decisions for their health and well-being. It's like opening a package of hot dogs... you have to determine what's garbage and what's edible. Sometimes good info can be found amidst the BS.

 

[Sayjoo13]

I made this post, got an email notification that someone had replied the same day, then never got anymore notifications, so I figured the thread got buried in all the others haha I just want to say thanks to everyone for their input! Its nice to see all the responses with people calling this site a "tight-knit community"!

And just for the record, I haven't had anyone be rude to me or anything (just want to make that clear.) Everyone has been great to me! I just thought I'd make a post on something that I'd seen going on in other people's posts.

A certain amount of "heated disagreements" are going to be held, and jmho should be had. I completely agree, the sniping, belittling, better than thou because I read so and so's book attitudes goes in opposition to what this (any) forum is about but there is a line between the two.

I completely agree that disagreements should be had! To me, that's what a forum is for: a jumble of different opinions! but I just meant, the name calling and the whole "I'm smarter than you" attitude makes me more hesitant to take someones advice when reading. Granted, some people are smarter than others lol but saying so isn't really necessary in a discussion

I feel sort of disrespected sometimes too, especially by people who have been in the hobby for far less time but act like they know a lot more.

I'll admit, a lot of the trolling I see comes from newbies acting like they know more than people who are well-established in the snake community. I think its sad on their (newbies) part. They should realize they are new, and may need the advice for the well-being of their snake. No one should ever be too proud to admit that they learned something new from this site! I'm constantly learning on here! I spend like 99% of my time reading on here!

I'm not a huge poster here, so maybe I am missing something, but I'm seeing something different going on. Typically a new poster comes in and asks about something controversial, often with a side note indicating they know everyone thinks this is a bad idea but they really really want to do it this way so it's fine right? Then one or a few people correct facts and make suggestions, in a straightforward manner but not rudely. Then the original poster freaks out about tone and the thread devolves into WHY IS EVERYONE HERE SO MEAN???

Just to clear up my original post, I'm sorry if you felt my post was directed at the people who have been here longer "trolling" newbies! That wasn't my intention, so I apologize! I meant people in general, whether they've been here for years or hours. I have to agree with you, it generally is the newbies who do that! But, not always. I just meant maybe it was something worth noting to everyone.

Anyway, that's my POV. I appreciate the quick and clear corrections when I have made a mistake, and I would hate to see that kind of informative posting disappear in the name of tone.

In the very few questions I've posted on here, I've always had them answered in a quick, clear way and took the information with gratitude whether it was something I wanted to hear or not. I absolutely do not want that to stop in the name of tone. I merely wanted to point out that there is a way to answer questions directly, even sensitive questions, without being hostile.

Ok, well, my reply is getting massive! So sorry! I've read all the replies but only touched on a few from the first page I think haha Don't want this response to be too huge! Thank you to everyone for their input! It was nice to see even different opinions on this thread without anyone getting hurt for no reason!

 

[Sayjoo13]

Sorry, couldn't help myself, one more quote/reply:

I think with regards to trolls that once the question has been answered truthfully and that either the troll's colours have come through or they've been otherwise identified as a troll, it would be best to leave the thread alone (as tempting as it is to poke them, or hit them, or flay them; I've done that in the past and hate the fact that I have) and it be brought to the attention of the mods.

I think this is excellent advice!

 

[Sayjoo13]

To the OP. Don't let heated posts discourage you from what is best FOR YOUR PETS. Your statement that you want to disregard negative posts in spite of correct information reflects poorly on you and I hope you never actually do that.

To clear things up, I don't throw out the good information. Even if someone says "you're a complete idiot, you don't know what you're doing, stop having pets, by the way, you should have at least 2 hides for your snake, one on the warm side and one on the cool side" I definitely wouldn't disregard that information. All I meant was that it makes it hard to take that person seriously. I have many pets, and I love them all unconditionally and take care of them to the best of my ability. If you've seen any of the very few questions I've posted on here, I hope you'll see that I take people's advice and change the way I'm doing things to better the life of my snake. I just mean that I'm less likely to take their advice if they're being overly condescending or just straight out mean. I will always put my pets above all else, I just wanted to bring it to people's attention that, as a newbie, tone means a lot to whether or not I feel inclined to really trust what a person says. If they can't give a direct, clear answer without naming calling, it makes me think they're not really a mature hobbyist. That being said, no one on here has ever been rude to me. I was just posting on what I'd seen in other threads. I hope that makes it more clear

 

[Karoni]

I'm a peaceable soul. I believe that the exchange of ideas can enrich everyone as long as the discussion remains respectful. It pains me to admit that some of the hurtful exchanges I've seen on this forum have changed my view of it. There are a few people on this forum who are capable of being vituperative and nasty just because other people dare to have a different viewpoint. They seem to feed on strife. So, because I value this forum so much, I've learned that (for me) the best policy is to avoid the controversial subjects and anything relating to politics or religion.

 

[kathylove]

"...There are a few people on this forum who are capable of being vituperative and nasty just because other people dare to have a different viewpoint. They seem to feed on strife..."

I agree! Unfortunately, I can't recall ANY large group of people (live OR on the Web) in which there aren't a FEW as you describe. It is just human nature, I guess. Avoiding controversial subjects is one way to USUALLY reduce stress. But I like controversial subjects, lol! If one enjoys (or doesn't mind too much) the challenge of negotiating the minefield of controversial debate, then it can be very rewarding, in my opinion.

Negative people will always be around unless your social contacts are VERY limited. I find far fewer here than in most places of similar size. In my opinion, it is best to either avoid their presence when possible if you know it makes your blood boil, or to try to learn the best ways of dealing with them (sometimes ignoring them), if your temperament is suited to that. But I feel that the worst practice is to join a debate if you know that you are likely to "rise to the bait" that will be thrown out, and that you are likely to say (or type) something that you will regret later. Remember, your words on this forum MAY outlive you, (or at least your membership here), lol! Only YOU determine what your legacy here will show to future readers! It is something to think about as you type out future replies.

 

[Sayjoo13]

Remember, your words on this forum MAY outlive you, (or at least your membership here), lol! Only YOU determine what your legacy here will show to future readers! It is something to think about as you type out future replies.

Absolutely perfect! I don't think anyone could've said it better

 

[jessicalb]

... if you know that you are likely to "rise to the bait" that will be thrown out, and that you are likely to say (or type) something that you will regret later. Remember, your words on this forum MAY outlive you...

Seriously, fantastic advice for the entire internet. I wish someone had mentioned this to me when I first found the net!

 

[Em Wright]

"...There are a few people on this forum who are capable of being vituperative and nasty just because other people dare to have a different viewpoint. They seem to feed on strife..."

I agree! Unfortunately, I can't recall ANY large group of people (live OR on the Web) in which there aren't a FEW as you describe. It is just human nature, I guess. Avoiding controversial subjects is one way to USUALLY reduce stress. But I like controversial subjects, lol! If one enjoys (or doesn't mind too much) the challenge of negotiating the minefield of controversial debate, then it can be very rewarding, in my opinion.

Negative people will always be around unless your social contacts are VERY limited. I find far fewer here than in most places of similar size. In my opinion, it is best to either avoid their presence when possible if you know it makes your blood boil, or to try to learn the best ways of dealing with them (sometimes ignoring them), if your temperament is suited to that. But I feel that the worst practice is to join a debate if you know that you are likely to "rise to the bait" that will be thrown out, and that you are likely to say (or type) something that you will regret later. Remember, your words on this forum MAY outlive you, (or at least your membership here), lol! Only YOU determine what your legacy here will show to future readers! It is something to think about as you type out future replies.

This was such a great post!

I'm a very blunt individual, I usually say exactly what I mean (even if I really should keep my mouth shut) and if I'm not careful it comes across as rude or mean. I do find the controversial topics gives me a chance to work on speaking honestly, but eloquently and politely. But for the most part I've been staying away from them more recently.

Sayjoo13, I figured that's what you meant, but felt it needed to be said, not necessarily for you, but for anyone else. I realize that badly presented facts are hard to swallow and if you ever doubt, seek a second opinion.