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Studies on dog behavior!

mike17l said:
So you admitted to him you lied? Because, "your" dog obviously does not instinctually go lie down when it sees a snake.
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Your hatred means nothing either Mike. If all you see in that photo is "lie" than I truly do feel sorry for you. I see beautiful dog, a healthy snake, and excellent weather. That was why it was posted; to brighten someones day. "If it offends you, it's meant to, it's that simple" - NaS.
 
Ricky87 said:
We live together, so even though she's Michael's dog, I call her my dog as well. My dog Rajon just doesn't even care to begin with. He's to soft to even shake a frisbee.
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ok............You and you twin brother both have GSDs. Your brother is working towards becoming a dog trainer, but not as a full-time career. You haven't trained your dogs yourself but had professional help.
The picture is being questioned because it was stated that through positive reinfocement the dog automatically goes into a 'down' position around the snakes and in this picture it very clearly isn't doing so.
 
Ricky87 said:
Your hatred means nothing either Mike. If all you see in that photo is "lie" than I truly do feel sorry for you. I see beautiful dog, a healthy snake, and excellent weather. That was why it was posted; to brighten someones day. "If it offends you, it's meant to, it's that simple" - NaS.
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Nothing wrong with the picture, originally; but, in this thread you said:

Ricky87 said:
Our dog Ciana used to be too curious about our snakes whenever we held them, so we started doing "leave it" training, and now every time we take one out to hold she lies down reactively.
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She is not doing that in the picture. That means you were either lying about how "well" "your" dog is trained, or mistaken about how "well" "your" dog was trained. One or the other.
 
diamondlil said:
ok............You and you twin brother both have GSDs. Your brother is working towards becoming a dog trainer, but not as a full-time career. You haven't trained your dogs yourself but had professional help.
The picture is being questioned because it was stated that through positive reinfocement the dog automatically goes into a 'down' position around the snakes and in this picture it very clearly isn't doing so.
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That's indoors. Outdoors things are still very new, and who's to say she didn't lie down before she had leave to "say hi" as we call it. He took the picture so I wouldn't know, but please, enough being petty. It sells your own views far short of there intention, and I've done my part in trying to right the train. It's on you guy's to do your part.
 
Well back to the whole "shock collar" snake avoidance training concept. Any, and I mean any dog that I have used a "shock collar" to train to avoid snakes will be as far away as physically possible when he/she sees/smells/hears a rattlesnake. I do not know if this is the same for other species, as I have no desire to test it. This is a case when the absolutism of "positive reinforcement is the only training method that is worth a damn" mentality is flat out wrong.
 
Ricky87 said:
That's indoors. Outdoors things are still very new, and who's to say she didn't lie down before she had leave to "say hi" as we call it. He took the picture so I wouldn't know, but please, enough being petty. It sells your own views far short of there intention, and I've done my part in trying to right the train. It's on you guy's to do your part.
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Oh no, that's not a good answer IMO. That's not a puppy that's never experienced outdoors.
I'm training Rosie to obey the same commands indoors or out. I expect her to 'sit' 'stay' or whatever indoors and out. I'd consider that normal practise.
 
She does obey. If we said leave it she would. There's no disproving that she's a trained dog, who will leave things alone on command. That's exactly why my brothers trainer is picking her to be her case study when she presents her project to became top certified. That's just a reality, and this dog has come such a long way through positive reinforcement. Clearly you want to find me to be a fraud to validate your own views, and will attach any documentation to that from that basis in an attempt to strengthen your views. I understand that, and thus care not for the pettiness you create. If your not satisfied than too bad for you I guess!.
 
Ricky87 said:
She does obey. If we said leave it she would. There's no disproving that she's a trained dog, who will leave things alone on command. That's exactly why my brothers trainer is picking her to be her case study when she presents her project to became top certified. That's just a reality, and this dog has come such a long way through positive reinforcement. Clearly you want to find me to be a fraud to validate your own views, and will attach any documentation to that from that basis in an attempt to strengthen your views. I understand that, and thus care not for the pettiness you create. If your not satisfied than too bad for you I guess!.
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You stated earlier that she would lie down reactively when you get a snake out. That is not the same as the dog obeying a 'leave' command.
 
diamondlil said:
ok............You and you twin brother both have GSDs. Your brother is working towards becoming a dog trainer, but not as a full-time career. You haven't trained your dogs yourself but had professional help.
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Nope. Let me help. Ricky is the one that has trained his own dog with string cheese. Michael is the one that says he trained his own dog, but Ricky let the cat out of the bag that a professional did it, to which Michael has indicated the professional was just a helper. Confusing. I know. But I read for comprehension.

Either way, the body language of the dog in the picture says "You move, you're mine!" Definitely not a picture of reactively laying down at the mere sight of a snake. Personally, I expected a better response from almost-professional trainers when being obviously caught in a lie. :shrugs:

I'm beginning to wonder if there's only one dog too. :rolleyes:
D80
 
Ricky87 said:
this dog has come such a long way through positive reinforcement.
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Come a long way from what?? You said she was soft. There's nothing to come from if she's soft. She obeys and follows commands. The expression "has come such a long way" indicates there was a problem to begin with and that she wasn't soft . . . interesting. More stretching of the truth? Keep talking, keep sharing, paint a better picture for us! :bowdown:

Ricky87 said:
Clearly you want to find me to be a fraud to validate your own views,
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No, you've proven you're a fraud and hopefully it will get you to zip it sooner or later. I've already stated my views and they don't need validation. The only validation I need is that I have healthy happy hard working and living dogs. Thanks for the arrogant assumption though!

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
Nope. Let me help. Ricky is the one that has trained his own dog with string cheese. Michael is the one that says he trained his own dog, but Ricky let the cat out of the bag that a professional did it, to which Michael has indicated the professional was just a helper. Confusing. I know. But I read for comprehension.

Either way, the body language of the dog in the picture says "You move, you're mine!" Definitely not a picture of reactively laying down at the mere sight of a snake. Personally, I expected a better response from almost-professional trainers when being obviously caught in a lie. :shrugs:

I'm beginning to wonder if there's only one dog too. :rolleyes:
D80
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Ok, So Ricky has trained his own dog.
Michael is apprenticed to a professional trainer who has trained his dog for him and wants to use it in a case study.
The dog reactively lays down at the meer hint of a snake indoors.
Thanks for the help, I think I've got it now.
I'd never feed my dog string cheese though, raw food all the way for mine.
 
VetusVates is the only person here that I know of certified to be psychoanalyzing. I'm going to leave this thread for now, and check in from time to time only to see if any positive turns have been made. There's a dog that looks like she could use some exercise, and a bowl of Hamburger Helper with my name on it. Peace y'all!!.
 
Actually, Ellie really did take one aspect of her training a step further than I'd ever have expected.
While the boys were young we had small furries as pets (not feeders). We had a house rabbit, gerbils and later a pair of degus who enjoyed play time in the lounge. Quite naturally, when we got the rabbit Ellie was sure I'd got a special dinner/toy for her. Under close supervision she was told sternly 'Leave' every time she looked longingly at Naomi. She used to drool and turn a 'smiling', pleading look at me and be told 'Leave'.
Over time she gave up hoping I'd let her kill the rabbit and would go to her bed every time it was out and even turn her head away so she couldn't see it.
When we got the gerbils and then the degus she was only hopeful for a couple of days that they were for her, after which (using the stern 'leave' command during this tme) she stayed away from their cages and put herself to bed whenever they were out playing.
I don't doubt for a second that her instincts were telling her to grab and kill the lovely prey animals, but her obedience to her training inhibited her prey drive.
 
Emily the discussion went from discussion to hostility? What happened? Why are people so insulted when others have results and to help them to do the same.

I asked the behavior and breed in an effort to be friendly and discuss what issues your having. No need to get nasty.

Basically there are many people who want their dogs to be robots. I don't understand why you need your dog to sit when hes sniffing som'thing benine besides to micromanage his life.

Also, just because lots of trainers use your method means nothing...lots of trainers also DON'T use your methods. So whats your point?
 
Drizzt80 said:
Translation: Michael will be here shortly to take up the charge!
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That was uncalled for, Brent.


You know it really means, "Time for me to log out as Ricky and log in as Michael so at least SOMEONE looks like they support and can follow my side of the discussion." LOL.

Drizzt80 said:
Nope. Let me help. Ricky is the one that has trained his own dog with string cheese. Michael is the one that says he trained his own dog, but Ricky let the cat out of the bag that a professional did it, to which Michael has indicated the professional was just a helper. Confusing. I know. But I read for comprehension.
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..and both are experts that taught the trainer how to train a dog because they uncle daddy step-nanny invented dog training and if you don't know that, you need "School of logical debate for dummies." I think that about sums it up. Oh, yeah. ..and they'll report you if you "hit them back first." Be careful.
KJ
 
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