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stupid breeders why cant you just leave things be

asnakecalled?

asnakecalled?

New member
i've just been reading how ultra is not corn snake its gray rat so my question to you all is why breed something to a corn and pass it off as a pure corn, why not just tell the truth and tell people they are hybrids. and what else in the corn snake morphs are hybrids with other snake species (i'm not on about the stuff we already know about i mean the other morphs i mean for all we know a Palmetto might be part king snake)

now i'm going to sell all my corns if that what they are, i think ill start a collection of old world rat snakes at least i will know they are pure and not crossed with any thing you want,
i think the american government are right they should make all reptile owners register there animals so we now who's breeding what.
 
To blame the POSSIBLE non-corn snake lineage in the ultra morphs on the US government is just ridiculous. Registration is only as good as the information supplied. As a vet tech for over 29 years, I've seen more than my share of "purebred and registered" dogs and cats that were quite obvious mutts. But then again, most of the breeds the world knows today were created by mixing one breed with another to enhance certain traits to get a desired final product. I don't think ANYONE can say with any 100% certainty that ANY snake, wild or cb, is 100% "pure". The darn things DO interbreed in the wild, you know.

If you have such an issue with the purity of the snakes you own and want to sell all of your corn snakes, please do. The rest of the corn snake world will not mourn your loss.
 
asnakecalled? said:
i think the american government are right they should make all reptile owners register there animals so we now who's breeding what.
Click to expand...

where abouts does it say i'm blaming the US government ?
i'm NOT blaming the US government i'm blaming the breeders that tell you its a corn snake when its just obviously not.
 
asnakecalled? said:
i've just been reading how ultra is not corn snake its gray rat so my question to you all is why breed something to a corn and pass it off as a pure corn, why not just tell the truth and tell people they are hybrids. and what else in the corn snake morphs are hybrids with other snake species (i'm not on about the stuff we already know about i mean the other morphs i mean for all we know a Palmetto might be part king snake)

now i'm going to sell all my corns if that what they are, i think ill start a collection of old world rat snakes at least i will know they are pure and not crossed with any thing you want,
i think the american government are right they should make all reptile owners register there animals so we now who's breeding what.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, although argued these days the American government is run by the people, for the people not vise-versa, they arent going to make the American people do anything. I think thats why we kicked the British out!
 
Ok and just let me go ahead and apologize now for the British comment. I just think it is best to stay out of political talks unless you are a citizen of said county.
 
Wow. So much to go over......

First of all, the US government doesn't need to have anything to do with my reptiles. Also if these bans passed, the UK market would hurt because many of the morphs that are over here aren't yet across the pond.

There will be breeders who are not ethical it's part of the business. When I sell animals I disclose everything to the buyer. Some people don't do that. We can't ban a hobby because some people are idiots. Why do you want to punish an entire hobby because of one snake?
 
I would say that the term "narrow minded' or "tunnel vision" fits here. Having to report and list my snakes for the government is not going to make things perfectly correct. I would say if DNA testing was done on most corns it would be hard to find any that are for the purist. A reputable breeder is not going to pass on snakes that are not what they say they are. The key word being reputable there.
If you want to sale off every snake you have, then the only person you are hurting is yourself. The reptile world really doesn't need the negativity. And you would be doing it and us a favor by getting out of the hobby. Yes this is probably harsh but if you lump all of us into the same category as the bad in the world then is hard for anyone to not take offence.
A while back I had an experience with baby snakes dying on me and nothing I could do about it, it made me question everything I know and do when it comes to the care and keeping of these wonderful creatures. I was ready to sale out and be done with it. But luckily for me I had and do have great friends who helped me thru and I saw the error of my thinking of getting out. I wish you luck in your future endeavors and I really hope your snakes don't suffer for your blindness on reality.
 
Its not all breeders fault that people dont know exactly where the genes come from all the snakes were eventually from a wc line and like it was stated earlier they interbreed in the wild. So unless your going to do dna testing on all your snakes I guess you will never know what they are. If this bothers you so much I think you have bigger issues in life. Have a great day
 
I am a UK corn keeper,I have Ultramel and Ultramel combos,I have Tessera,and given half the chance and the necessary funds would snap up a Palmetto or two,I have no issues at all with any of these morphs and my stand on it is that we can only guarantee any corn to be 99.9% because as has been said already they interbreed with each other in the wild with no interference from us,so I don't see how any one could think that any corn or rat etc is 100% ,plus all my critters are 100% healthy,cool,and damn sexy so personally wouldn't change any of them.
Information ie-Breeders registering what they have and breed etc is only as good as the information submitted,and as there are alot of keepers and breeders here who aren't good on record keeping,and the fact that animals change hands many many times in their lifetime without relevant information being passed on don't see this being a workable situation,the only advice I can offer you is that if it really upsets you that much collect your ball and leave the park as there are plenty of us still here happy to play ball without you.:sobstory:
 
Wait, why should just the US ban snakes and make a registry. Are there no breeders in the UK? *sarcasm*
 
asnakecalled? said:
i've just been reading how ultra is not corn snake its gray rat so my question to you all is why breed something to a corn and pass it off as a pure corn, why not just tell the truth and tell people they are hybrids. and what else in the corn snake morphs are hybrids with other snake species (i'm not on about the stuff we already know about i mean the other morphs i mean for all we know a Palmetto might be part king snake)

now i'm going to sell all my corns if that what they are, i think ill start a collection of old world rat snakes at least i will know they are pure and not crossed with any thing you want,
i think the american government are right they should make all reptile owners register there animals so we now who's breeding what.
Click to expand...


Although corn snakes are VERY important to me this is not life and death stuff here. This is a hobby. Hobbies should be fun and relaxing. It doesn't look to me like you're having much fun. Corn snakes are awesome animals even if a few of them may have a few random hybrid genes thrown in from years past. Does it REALLY matter all that much? Even wild corns may not be "pure'.
Hey, I would like to be sure my "pure" corns are pure and my hybrids are not but you can't control everything in life. So, don't freak out about it and give up the ship just because the water might be a little murky. Enjoy your corns, care for them and LOVE them. And count yourself lucky you're one of the fortunate few to own these beautiful animals. JMO
 
mmmhm I don't think it's wrong when you just want "pure" corns in your stock, that doesn't mean anybody HAS TO keep just pure corns. I don't know why the thread opener gets so much mocking comments - even from moderators.

I DO think it's wrong and unfair not to label ultras and nonultra byproducts as "hybrids" or "maybe hybrids". Most breeders in the US doesn't seem to care much about that - at least that's what I've read mostly. It's not right to do that since other breeders, who have the same right to have their personal attitude towards that topic like the "I don't care and I don't believe the hybrid thing-breeders", have other motives. Anybody has his own personal motives for the hobby, obviously these motives are dissimilar in the corn snake world, but I think it's a cheek just to debate that topic from such a subjective view...

I do know that ultra ship sailed a long time ago and it's impossible to delete these breeds of the hobby.

I do know much corns aren't technically pure in the wild, so are the pet corns.

But heck, I DO WANT to have the possibility to choose between "maybe hybrid" corns and probably pure corns when I buy a corn!!

It doesn't matter if it's a king cross or something like creamsicle, ultra or similar stuff. Maybe the breeders with this attitude are in a minority, but I really don't think that makes it correct when somebody sells corns from creamsicle, ultra, whatever lineage and doesn't label them as what they are.

I personally do want to keep "pure" corns. That's the reason why I never bought any ultra related corns. neither years ago when they were firstly introduced, nor today. I just want to keep corns with the highest amount of pureness. That is important to me. Much breeders think different - hooray for your tolerance, but please don't forget to be tolerant to the breeders who have a different way of seeing.

Maybe it's the language barrier but I don't see a reason why the thread opener is treaten in such a way. :shrugs:
 
i'm sorry if i up set any one that's not what i meant to do. i don't want punish the hobby all i'm trying to say is that if people are going to breed hybrids they should label them as that, being a breeder my self i would rather have as near to pure corns in my collection as i can get.
 
I don't think it's a language barrier so much-I think calling a group of people 'stupid',but wanting them to see your point of view usually doesn't work out so well.
 
I'm a UK-based some-time breeder and I did object to being called "stupid". Nothing to do with a language or culture barrier. That was plain bad manners and a "holier than thou" attitude.

I imported a pair of Rich Z's (most excellent!) GoldDusts before the hybrid debate broke out. I have always labelled offspring as being derived from GoldDusts, but if the resulting Butters/Butter Mots have been sold on or bred by people who have no interest, knowledge or scruples, then for sure they have contributed to the problem here in the UK.

As my main outlet for hatchlings was a dealer who supplied other outlets around the UK, then anyone with a Butter or Butter Mot in the UK, could conceivably have one derived from GoldDust. As has been pointed out, we're now trying to shut the stable door a long time after this particular horse headed for the hills.

This issue has nothing specifically to do with US breeders or any kind of regulation. Even if that level of mandatory regulation of breeding existed (US or UK), then a number of us would - in all good conscience - have registered GoldDusts as "pure" Corns in advance of the suspected background becoming public, and had at least one or two clutches out in the world before it became apparent that there was an issue.
 
JimGERcream said:
I don't know why the thread opener gets so much mocking comments - even from moderators.
Click to expand...

Moderators aren't allowed to voice their personal opinions? As one of those "stupid breeders", I took offense at the OP's statements and attitude, so dished it right back. Yes, I did misread a small part of the OP's post, but I guess it's not only Americans that have trouble the Queen's English. I at least use capitalization and punctuation and try to form proper sentences. But the sentiment behind my post still stands...thinking that having to register snakes with the government would help prevent hybrids from being labeled as pure is still ridiculous.
 
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