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The US flag is offensive ...

tom e said:
I hear you Beth, and certainly don't expect that that 'scenario' I put up be taken seriously. But this story is obviously one sided, that's all I'm pointing out. And it's a dream story to a certain kind of journalism, cause it's a better sell if they don't dig any further than the surface.
If she was seriously bringing in a giant flag to celebrate the holiday and nothing else, then the management was probably simply objecting to the size and handled this VERY BADLY. But I doubt it. Usually a 5 footer in someone else's space is trying to make a very different kind of point.
If it was simply America hating, why would they be flying a flag out front? People on both sides of this debate get a little too butt hurt sometimes.
Click to expand...

Tom, I hear what you're saying, but I'm willing to bet that if someone would have brought in a Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo, there would have been no objections. Even if it was obnoxiously large.

Another point, they also never mentioned if the flag was hanging vertically or horizontally. If it was hanging vertically, it would have only been 3 feet wide. Even my tiny little cubicle at the collections agency was wider than that.
 
My first thought was "there has to be more to the story than this". And seeing how she shares a room with three others, a flag that size could be disturbing/annoying regardless of what flag it is. Maybe that's what the person meant to complain about, and it got twisted into "offended by it". So to a certain extent I'm willing to give a little benefit of doubt.

That being said, if they party in question actually was offended, not because it took up so much space/room/was distracting/etc, but was offended because it was actually the American flag. Then screw them.
 
blueapplepaste said:
but was offended because it was actually the American flag. Then screw them.
Click to expand...

Word, lol.

But I'd still think of this as a nonstory. I don't need to read it in the paper to know that some people are just ... Well I can't think of a word I am allowed to use here.
 
That is just HORABLE.. This is AMERICA. We should have a right to fly our own flag.. And that this person had the NERVE to lay our flag on the ground that men died to keep from touching... HORABLE............
 
I like the sediment, but soldiers died for our freedoms, not just a piece of fabric. I understand what the flag is supposed to stand for, but as Tom said, it sometimes can be used as a big middle finger for people to throw at others. This story seems a bit too simplified to be the whole truth, and there's way too much room for assumptions, leaving people to make the easy choice of siding with the mother. I mean, why not take the flag to a veterans grave, and show respect in that way. I think a person with a huge flag in a small area might be trying to draw more attention to themselves, than fallen soldiers.
We're too quick to get all up in arms over this story, and it would only make sense to demonize the people "offended" by the flag, and deem them un-American, to effectively spread a news story. It's much to do about nothing if you ask me, and disrespectful in it's own right to focus media attention on this, rather than commemorating our soldiers past and present.
 
Every time I hear the phrase, "It's just a piece of fabric", I get sad and angry. To you, it may just be a piece of fabric, but to me, it's a symbol of something greater. If our society didn't believe in symbolizing things, then there would be no need for things like memorials, cemeteries, statues, holidays or whatever. Do you think that we should just throw away the Memorial holiday? I mean it's just a "symbolic" holiday?!?! If your religious, maybe we should throw away Christmas or Easter, because these holidays hardly symbolize what they are actually supposed to!?!?! Think of that, the next time you call it "A Piece of fabric!"

JMO!

Wayne
 
medusacoils said:
Every time I hear the phrase, "It's just a piece of fabric", I get sad and angry. To you, it may just be a piece of fabric, but to me, it's a symbol of something greater. If our society didn't believe in symbolizing things, then there would be no need for things like memorials, cemeteries, statues, holidays or whatever. Do you think that we should just throw away the Memorial holiday? I mean it's just a "symbolic" holiday?!?! If your religious, maybe we should throw away Christmas or Easter, because these holidays hardly symbolize what they are actually supposed to!?!?! Think of that, the next time you call it "A Piece of fabric!"

JMO!

Wayne
Click to expand...

cornsnakes.com says: said:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to medusacoils again.
Click to expand...
^~~ Too bad... that post REALLY deserves some rep...
 
tom e said:
Actually I read it a different way. This is pure speculation, but when someone shares an office with other people and they have computers (to fire up their passions with ridiculous news stories), they tend to get into conversations of a political nature (oh my!).. I'm picturing a patriotic mother of a soldier overseas who mixed up her patriotism and her love for her child with justification for a war. Or reverse that (position wise) and she shares an office with a godless lib who doesn't understand you gotta fight 'em over there so you don't have to over here. I'm picturing a heated office debate about the war (or the new President) happening just prior to this event.

Anyway, bringing a 5 foot flag into cramped quarters is kind of like saying, "My position is more patriotic than yours cause I'm the one who brought the flag in". Ok that's offensive, because it's an abuse of the flag in my opinion. This is the kind of thing that gets my goat. Fact is the flag is a lot of things to a lot of people, but it's not meant to be used to win arguments, or to rub in people's faces. Or to shore up your opinion. That sounds like a lot of Americans to me.
Click to expand...
Or, pure speculation here ... it was Memorial day and her entire family is either veterans or active service. And she did it out of respect for our nations veterans during a time set aside for just that. The flag was reported to be on a pole, one might reasonably assume if on a pole it may have been standing. The most common size of a flag used on indoor standing poles .... 3x5.

That said if indeed she is the radical lib hating, Bush loving, war monger you attempt to paint I would agree that is flag abuse. I guess I just had a harder time making that leap from the article and video.

tom e said:
...And it's a dream story to a certain kind of journalism, cause it's a better sell if they don't dig any further than the surface....
Click to expand...
The news story was done by CBS which by most accounts is liberal leaning. Is the "certain kind of journalism" the same as CBS employed when Katie interviewed Sarah Palin?
tom e said:
...If she was seriously bringing in a giant flag to celebrate the holiday and nothing else, then the management was probably simply objecting to the size and handled this VERY BADLY. But I doubt it. ...
Click to expand...
Management told the flag owner it offended the other person. CBS contacted the corporate office for the hospital who had no comment. Then after the story went national and their office was flooded with calls they posted on their website, days later, about the size being the issue. Pure speculation here but that seems like a corporate save face move after the fact. Maybe they just forgot about the size being the actual complaint and misinformed the flag owner that someone was offended.

tom e said:
...Using this nations flag as a middle finger is as bad as burning it IMO, ...
Click to expand...
I agree!
 
Tsst, I won't argue against what you've wrapped around my quotes there, I don't think you got what I meant to say (whether I wasn't clear, or you missed it..).
I'm not attached to any network, nor do I imagine there's one out there who's above making some people puff up there chest for a quarter, lol.
 
tom e said:
Tsst, I won't argue against what you've wrapped around my quotes there, I don't think you got what I meant to say (whether I wasn't clear, or you missed it..).
I'm not attached to any network, nor do I imagine there's one out there who's above making some people puff up there chest for a quarter, lol.
Click to expand...
tom e, I got the one-sided part and mostly agree. Agreed also on the networks. Sorry it was my assumption that you were referring to right leaning media.
 
Just found this thread, and even though I am not American, I too would be angry if an immigrant was offended by a Canadian flag. They live in our country, they fly their home country flags, wear them on t-shirts, and show their pride for their country, why can't we do the same? A friend of mine posted this a few months ago on his facebook, I dug it up for you guys, it's interesting, and makes a lot of valid points.

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TV's Seinfeld.
This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his
comedy act.
He makes some very interesting points.

Proud To Be White

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this?

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab
Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You Call me 'White
boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman' ... and that's OK.

But when I call you, N****r, Kike, Towel head, Sand-n****r, Camel Jockey,
Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... You call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the
ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.

If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives we'd be
racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and
then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

Wonder who pays for that?

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any
color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships you
know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if
there were 'White colleges' THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your
race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us
racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid
to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer
shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from
the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud. But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?
 
Regit said:
Just found this thread, and even though I am not American, I too would be angry if an immigrant was offended by a Canadian flag. They live in our country, they fly their home country flags, wear them on t-shirts, and show their pride for their country, why can't we do the same? A friend of mine posted this a few months ago on his facebook, I dug it up for you guys, it's interesting, and makes a lot of valid points.

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TV's Seinfeld.
This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his
comedy act.
He makes some very interesting points.

Proud To Be White

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this?

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab
Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You Call me 'White
boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman' ... and that's OK.

But when I call you, N****r, Kike, Towel head, Sand-n****r, Camel Jockey,
Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... You call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the
ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.

If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives we'd be
racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and
then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

Wonder who pays for that?

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any
color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships you
know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if
there were 'White colleges' THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your
race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us
racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid
to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer
shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from
the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud. But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?
Click to expand...

Only that never happened. I hope that wasn't in a newpaper..

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp
 
It's merely classification. Why are "normal" corns called "normal"? Because (in the wild) they're in the majority. :shrugs:

And FWIW, Caucasians are projected to be a minority in the US by 2050.

Again, :shrugs:


Dale
 
tom e said:
Only that never happened. I hope that wasn't in a newpaper..

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp
Click to expand...
Thanks, Tom. And no offence or bad feeling toward Regit. That sort of thing becoming part of urban myth troubles me.
What Michael Richards did troubles me, and this stilted over-kill (IMHO) defense of what he did troubles me. In between the lines it defends the right to use the N-word,...and well...be racist. IMHO.
In the deep south, the N-word is just not acceptable among civilized edumacated people. And on other subjects and words : "when in doubt, just don't go there" is my practice.
 
Nah, wasn't in a newspaper, was just posted on facebook.
Oops -facepalm-
But, whether it happened or not, it does raise valid points about society, does it not? I mean, I've even noticed this at work, we've got an Pakistani guy who works with us, his explanation for most things is; "It's because you're white", but when I respond in the same manner to him ("It's because you're brown") he gets offended.
:shrugs:
 
jazzgeek said:
It's merely classification. Why are "normal" corns called "normal"? Because (in the wild) they're in the majority. :shrugs:

And FWIW, Caucasians are projected to be a minority in the US by 2050.

Again, :shrugs:

Dale
Click to expand...
And if memory serves me correctly, white males 16-25 pay some of the highest rates in automobile insurance. The tip of an iceberg of edumacated, middleclass, white, male phobism.
 
Regit said:
Nah, wasn't in a newspaper, was just posted on facebook.
Oops -facepalm-
But, whether it happened or not, it does raise valid points about society, does it not? I mean, I've even noticed this at work, we've got an Pakistani guy who works with us, his explanation for most things is; "It's because you're white", but when I respond in the same manner to him ("It's because you're brown") he gets offended.
:shrugs:
Click to expand...
Well, Regit, for what it's worth, I does lurves the gay jokes. But when it comes to a serious sociological discussion....I can tell you with all modest candor that if you are not gay, you cannot/do not understand that particular minority perspective. But I do not blame you for it. And I don't like batting "because you are this" or "because you are not that" around the court or park or office.
It is time wasted, when we could be introspecting or researching, really trying to understand what a minority feels like.
Pouring cold water on riots and marches and demonstrations and propositions :D by making awkward and obsolete issues into non-issues.
 
I actually don't know the story behind Michael Richards and what I posted, this thread just reminded me of it, so I figured I'd stop being such a lurker and contribute.

As for defending the right to be racist, that's not how I meant it to be taken. IMHO racism is a horrible thing, and not something that SHOULD be defended. My posting it was more of a look at the way people we're not "allowed" to be racist against, can be racist to us, and it's okay (that sounds bad coming out, and I really don't mean for it to, but I can't think of another way to word it.)
 
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