The US flag is offensive ...

[tsst]

Now it is offensive for a US citizen to display the US flag in a US company, in a US city, in a US state, in the USA?!?!? And it offends none other than a non-US citizen living here for the last 14 years. Maybe we should get the UN to vote on whether we are even allowed to have a flag anymore? (SARCASM)

Hmmm, offended by a symbol of the very freedom used to express the malcontent for the display of said symbol.

And to lay it on the floor ... arrggghh! Heros have literally died protecting our flag from desecration. My heart bleeds everytime I see such utter lack of respect. For some of us it's not just a piece of material, it's not just a form of speech. It too represents freedom in general and moreover it represents all of the brave men and women that, in our history, have given their very lives for it and our country!


:realhot::angry01::headbang:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html

 

[RobbiesCornField]

WHAT?! That's just WRONG.
This is AMERICA. OUR flag should be displayed everywhere. If every other nationality can put their flag up anywhere they please without consequence, why can't AMERICANS?! Oh right... it's "racist", and not "politically correct".

 

[wade]

There are times when it is appropriate to politely tell someone to FO.

 

[snakewispera snr]

Well it just sounds like you are taking after the UK......
We've had problems with the Cross of St George... (the English flag) And the Union Flag, for some time, for the same reasons.... I say we, but actually the Welsh just didn't listen and carried on putting up the Welsh flag (The Dragon) anyway... LOL
BTW I think the Welsh have the coolest national flag of any country....
Hell we have a mythical reptile as an emblem... No stripes, crosses. stars.etc here.... LOL

 

[cornmorphs]

same here in the UK... aint allowed to do anything that offends anyone else..
yet there are plenty of moscs (sp) etc that we here have no option on..
bit frustrating.. i dont mind anyone being here, but would be nice if they accepted our way, most of them are here as their country isnt so nice in the 1st place... oh that and the fact out government gives them loads of money

 

[snakewispera snr]

same here in the UK... aint allowed to do anything that offends anyone else..
yet there are plenty of moscs (sp) etc that we here have no option on..
bit frustrating.. i dont mind anyone being here, but would be nice if they accepted our way, most of them are here as their country isnt so nice in the 1st place... oh that and the fact out government gives them loads of money

That because you're English.... Be like the Welsh and follow Wades example...
Where's that Wade for President banner gone.....

 

[vetusvates]

That's why I like the privileges of being the boss at my office. I'm open to folks stringing up just about anything they want, except naked pictures,...and other people.
(But even so, being state and federally funded, we have confidentiality rules, and also have to steer clear of political issues.)
And no one is going to touch my tradition of my years' long special place for my Salvador Dali calendar. And everyone knows Dali can be....pushing the limit at times.

But seriously, my mother worked in administration at a major catholic owned catholic run hospital in north Louisiana in the early 1990's when they were re-writing their code of ethics. It was quite involved. No off color jokes in any way even indirectly involving any minority. Details even about what you could not have on your desk, religious and otherwise. I'm supposing there were legalities and litigation that were potentially involved,....and our flag might very likely have been covered in the rules. I'll have to ask her.
I'm sure I'd be in trouble all the time. I'll hang my american flag when and where I choose. And I really like my off color jokes.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

same here in the UK... aint allowed to do anything that offends anyone else..
yet there are plenty of moscs (sp) etc that we here have no option on..
bit frustrating.. i dont mind anyone being here, but would be nice if they accepted our way, most of them are here as their country isnt so nice in the 1st place... oh that and the fact out government gives them loads of money

Sounds a LOT like America at the moment.
The really sad thing is, I can't qualify for Welfare, because I don't have children. Yet illegal immigrants can walk in with their 12 kids and get it in no time flat.
Maybe I should learn how to speak a different language, and have 18 kids that I can't take care of.

 

[tom e]

Clearly not handled well and so they will get what they deserve, but I have a feeling the fact that it was a flag was not the real issue here.

Boy this is the kind of story that can sell papers though I'll bet, lol.

Luckily, I don't see ANYTHING like this happening in America. Whether the story's true or not I'm proud to say it doesn't sound like my country (even here in the granola west, lol.) I don't know anyone who would dare say that flag is offensive, please take it down.

 

[cornmorphs]

Sounds a LOT like America at the moment.
The really sad thing is, I can't qualify for Welfare, because I don't have children. Yet illegal immigrants can walk in with their 12 kids and get it in no time flat.
Maybe I should learn how to speak a different language, and have 18 kids that I can't take care of.

yeah, i see it man... very similar here, not right really.
i dont mind anyone coming over if they work..
my neighbours on both sides are polish, and they are really nice, they all work and everything

 

[medusacoils]

There are times when it is appropriate to politely tell someone to FO.

:cheers:

Damn it!! :headbang::headbang: It won't let me give any more rep today!!

 

[sarcare]

Ok, I'm all for flying the flag high. But when I read the story the thing that jumped out at me was this: Shared office + 3 foot by 5 ft flag= big space hog. I might be offended if one day I came in and couldn't see my desk or wall hangings because an enormous flag was covering the entire wall. That may not be the case--maybe it was a large office, but to me that would be a big issue. I've had coworkers who think you are trampling on thier rights if you disagree with something they are doing, even if the point isn't the idea or even their right to express it, but the location and timing.

 

[cornmorphs]

Ok, I'm all for flying the flag high. But when I read the story the thing that jumped out at me was this: Shared office + 3 foot by 5 ft flag= big space hog. I might be offended if one day I came in and couldn't see my desk or wall hangings because an enormous flag was covering the entire wall. That may not be the case--maybe it was a large office, but to me that would be a big issue. I've had coworkers who think you are trampling on thier rights if you disagree with something they are doing, even if the point isn't the idea or even their right to express it, but the location and timing.

rights are one thing, but most people that land on our shores have more than we do... very frustrating

 

[Lennycorn]

I hope their rights and freedom which were provided by that flag weren't offensive.

God Bless America.

 

[medusacoils]

Ok, I'm all for flying the flag high. But when I read the story the thing that jumped out at me was this: Shared office + 3 foot by 5 ft flag= big space hog. I might be offended if one day I came in and couldn't see my desk or wall hangings because an enormous flag was covering the entire wall. That may not be the case--maybe it was a large office, but to me that would be a big issue. I've had coworkers who think you are trampling on thier rights if you disagree with something they are doing, even if the point isn't the idea or even their right to express it, but the location and timing.

I dunno?!?! The impression I got by the story wasn't that the offended party felt that the space lost was offensive, but the FLAG itself, was offensive. Then the administration in the hospital, tried to add to it by saying other people (patients and staff) found it offensive.

I think people that don't love this country and live here, are offensive!


Wayne

 

[Michael823]

It sounds like the people were just unhappy with the size of the flag, and not the flag itself. But on memorial day, and having children in the armed forces, she should be able to have atleast been given a respectful alternative, or reasoning behind removing the flag.
Again though, this seems to be turning into an illegal immigrant debate, which has nothing to do with the original post. Just as they were quick to become offended, we were. We can't assume to know the truth of what really happened, and sometimes people can become overly preachy with the "this is America" speech, and who knows what the tone of the conversation really was, just saying.
The flag means much more to some than others, and to make judgements on either side based on this incident would be silly. There are plenty of non US born citizens that appreciate all of what the flag is supposed to represent, so let's keep this in the perspective of an isolated incident, that has no reflection on groups of people.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

It sounds like the people were just unhappy with the size of the flag, and not the flag itself. But on memorial day, and having children in the armed forces, she should be able to have atleast been given a respectful alternative, or reasoning behind removing the flag.
Again though, this seems to be turning into an illegal immigrant debate, which has nothing to do with the original post. Just as they were quick to become offended, we were. We can't assume to know the truth of what really happened, and sometimes people can become overly preachy with the "this is America" speech, and who knows what the tone of the conversation really was, just saying.
The flag means much more to some than others, and to make judgements on either side based on this incident would be silly. There are plenty of non US born citizens that appreciate all of what the flag is supposed to represent, so let's keep this in the perspective of an isolated incident, that has no reflection on groups of people.

In response, let me post some of my "favorite" quotes from the article.

When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive.

It did NOT say the size of her flag was offensive, but that the flag itself was.

McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said that supervisor took down the flag herself.
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said.

Placing the flag on the floor is in violation of the U.S. Code Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, paragraph (b). The whole section is entitled "Respect for flag".
(If you think I'm kidding, look it up)
In my opinion, if you can't respect the symbols of our nation, you don't deserve the rights that symbol affords you.

Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."

It took them 2 days to come up with that story. And only AFTER dozens of calls and complaints were made when the story went public.

But she says when she was first told the flag had to go, nobody mentioned anything about its size being the root of the problem.
"At no point was I afforded the opportunity -- [no one said,] 'Hey Deb, could you get a one and a half by three and a half and hang it instead of hanging this three by five?'" McLucas said.

Enough said.



While I do agree that many non US born citizens respect the flag and all it represents, there are also a great number that do not. To be quite honest, I've seen more flags flying from other countries than I have American flags. Anytime someone complains about their flag, it's automatically racist. When someone complains about the American flag, they HAVE to take it down. Sorry, but that seems just a TEENSY bit unfair to me.

The thing that really bothers me is that this all happened on Memorial Day. A day when we're supposed to be remembering the people that died for our country. It's not just a day of sales to make department stores a quick buck. There's meaning behind it. All this person was trying to do was show her respect. And she wasn't allowed to. Sometimes, America sickens me.

 

[tom e]

Actually I read it a different way. This is pure speculation, but when someone shares an office with other people and they have computers (to fire up their passions with ridiculous news stories), they tend to get into conversations of a political nature (oh my!).. I'm picturing a patriotic mother of a soldier overseas who mixed up her patriotism and her love for her child with justification for a war. Or reverse that (position wise) and she shares an office with a godless lib who doesn't understand you gotta fight 'em over there so you don't have to over here. I'm picturing a heated office debate about the war (or the new President) happening just prior to this event.

Anyway, bringing a 5 foot flag into cramped quarters is kind of like saying, "My position is more patriotic than yours cause I'm the one who brought the flag in". Ok that's offensive, because it's an abuse of the flag in my opinion. This is the kind of thing that gets my goat. Fact is the flag is a lot of things to a lot of people, but it's not meant to be used to win arguments, or to rub in people's faces. Or to shore up your opinion. That sounds like a lot of Americans to me.

 

[starsevol]

Since I wasn't there and have no idea what the context of everything leading up to this event was....I'm not really sure where I stand. What TomE said could lend an entirely different context to this whole thing....

BUT.....

If I were the mother of a soldier, or someone who felt the need to hang a flag on Memorial Day and someone came up and told ME the flag was offensive.....then I think I would spend a bit of time showing them EXACTLY the definition of the word offensive. I would do anything and everything to make sure there was no peace to be had...but sticking just within the rules to not get canned. I would do all I could to make the very person who offended ME, as miserable as possible for as long as possible.

And just ask David, (snakemaster24).....I can be QUITE offensive when I wanna be!

 

[tom e]

I hear you Beth, and certainly don't expect that that 'scenario' I put up be taken seriously. But this story is obviously one sided, that's all I'm pointing out. And it's a dream story to a certain kind of journalism, cause it's a better sell if they don't dig any further than the surface.
If she was seriously bringing in a giant flag to celebrate the holiday and nothing else, then the management was probably simply objecting to the size and handled this VERY BADLY. But I doubt it. Usually a 5 footer in someone else's space is trying to make a very different kind of point. Using this nations flag as a middle finger is as bad as burning it IMO, and it offers the same kind of protections for that behavior. IE, you're free to do both and make yourself look the fool.
If it was simply America hating, why would they be flying a flag out front? People on both sides of this debate get a little too butt hurt sometimes.