What is your ideal incubation media?

[El Jefe]

Okay....I'm at this stage now. Set up the incubator last week and getting the supplies together for incubation. I have a few corns shed and I am expecting eggs in the next week or so.



I use sphagnum moss for the nest box in the cage and have used sphagnum moss for the incubation media as well. I've also used perlite and vermiculite and can't seem to narrow down a 'best' material.



Moss: seems to do really well at maintaining humidity but flies seem to be a problem. I wet it thoroughly and then squeeze out all water and leave it moist.



Vermiculite: like it but it dries out a little too much for me and that whole warning label of cancer also bothers me. I use a 1:1 water/material ratio (by weight) and then tweak that a little until I get it to clump together when squeeze but not poor out water.



Perlite: Nice stuff but it always looks too man-made and it always seems to look not wet enough....but I'm sure it is. I haven't used this in a while so I forget what I used to do as far as water ratio...but I believe it was 1:1 by weight.



So....what do YOU use?



AND....what kind of water/material ratio do you use? Also...do you measure by weight or some other method?

 

[Jeff Linkchorst]

I use Perlite. I mix it 1:1 but i seem to add more water. but then i don't have to mess with it after that.

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Sphagnum works just fine for me. Easy to work with, very affordable and easy to gain access to. I soak the moss and wring it dry by hand leaving it feeling like a damp wash cloth. I use a hygometers probe inside a bin in the incubator and if humidity levels drop I mist them with a spray gun that I keep inside the incubator as to assure I will not shock the eggs with a dose of cool water.
Jay

 

[Susan]

I've always used sphagnum moss for the snakes, hand-wrung to get the "perfect" moisture content. I no longer put any air holes in my containers. It prevents the flies from getting in as well as maintaining the moisture level. My moss used to dry out and I would have to always wet it down again by misting.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

My absolute favorite incubation medium is Orchid Moss...BUT it's expensive.

 

[bitsy]

Bit of both for me.

I use vermiculite as the base layer, sit the eggs in indentations on it, then put a loose layer of moss over the top.

Both are made damp pretty much by guesswork. Vermiculite is damp enough that it just holds together in a clump if picked up and squeezed. Moss is soaked in water, then squeezed out before use.

I'll be trying Perlite this year. Ran out of vermiculite late last season and used it for a last-minute second clutch. Seemed to be more difficult to get the water content right, but then I'm not used to it. Could just be an experience thing.

 

[Joejr14]

Vermic for me, Jeff. 1:1 ratio in a sealed up ziploc container (much like your rubbermaid containers for your corn condos, just bigger).

The cancer thing doesn't bother me as vermic is routinely tested and to my knowledge none has come up carrying asbestos lately at all. I do believe those mines were closed down.

Plus vermic is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying good grade moss---and from what I've seen people have had fly problems on moss---but I've never seen it happen on vermic.

Personally I'd rather go with a mineral that doesn't allow mold growth and things like that, but it's just me.

 

[Denise]

I use perlite and vermiculite mixed.
Den

 

[KJUN]

Coarse grade (#3) vermic works well, but the fine stuff you usually see for sale now doesn't. Try mixing perlite:vermic at a 60:40 or 50:50 ratio (by volume) and you'll wonder why you ever tried anything else. Put enough water so you can barely squeeze a little out - just like with straight perlite or vermic.

This will combate the problem of straight vermic (where too much water can be held in contact with the cell due to how vermic stores water on the molecular level) AND combate the problem of perlite having varying pH levels. (Both are volcanic rocks, but they vary a lot in chemical properties between each other.)

I'm likely not the first to think of this based on the chemical properties (pros and cons) of the two styles of rock, but I think I've been the biggest proponent of it since I switched to this method well over a decade ago. I know a few other large breeders that switched to it after trying it once, too.

It is ALL I will use for incubating eggs now.
KJ

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Coarse grade (#3) vermic works well, but the fine stuff you usually see for sale now doesn't.

Actually, all I used to use was the fine vermiculite for 10 yrs just fine. I've only started using coarse because the fine is impossible to find. I had great success with the fine; I've also had great success with the coarse.

Back to the OP. I tried moss a couple of years a go and I thought it sucked. Perilite just doesn't look like it would be a good incubation medium; I know others use it, but I don't know; just doesn't seem "right" to me. For me, vermiculite works best.

 

[KJUN]

I tried moss a couple of years a go and I thought it sucked.

Moss, for me, was a haven for those darn "fruitflies" than almost all southern residents have to deal with at least occasionally.

Perilite just doesn't look like it would be a good incubation medium;

Although I don't want to sound like I'm also judging a book by its cover, but I agree. Except for larger eggs than ratsnakes typically have, straight Perlite doesn't seem to work too well since it holds moisture internally instead of externally. Too much of either extreme isn't good (but vermic and perlite are on the opposite ends of that scale.....lol), and I would NOT recommend using straight perlite to anyone....except for some LARGE eggs (like Pituophis), but those are exceptions that I believe to be off topic here.

 

[mbdorfer]

Well, I haven't had a whole lot of experience lately. Years ago I used vermic and it worked just fine. If I get some eggs this year, I'm going with paper towels, yes I said paper towels! (ask Gino) :grin01:

 

[El Jefe]

I like all the suggestions. Thanks everyone! I think I'm going to use a mixture of the above methods to see what works for me. I especially like that 50:50 vermiculite/perlite mix idea. Interesting...

 

[MegF.]

Perlite hands down! No worries of too much water and suffocating the eggs if it clings to the sides of the shell. Perlite will not do that. It's easy to add water if necessary by pouring some at the edges of the egg box away from the eggs. It will go to the bottom and provide humidity without making the medium too wet. I use it straight and have had 100% hatch rates.

 

[Cflaguy]

Been using paper towels...

Well, I haven't had a whole lot of experience lately. Years ago I used vermic and it worked just fine. If I get some eggs this year, I'm going with paper towels, yes I said paper towels! (ask Gino) :grin01:

for twenty some-odd years. Easy to use, change, high birth rate...
And may I add, I use mostly old plastic containers. In these pics the eggs are in an old potato salad container from Publix.

 

[desertanimal]

All the vermic and perlite people talk extensively about how they achieve the right amount of moisture. I'm guessing paper towels are the same. Wet 'em down, squeeze 'em out, and they're good to go?

 

[MegF.]

I would worry about paper towels getting up against my eggs and clinging to the shells, thereby drowning them. Same inherent problems as you can have with vermiculite. I've found if there is some kind of mistake to make, I'll make it. Perlite saves me from myself!

 

[KJUN]

I would worry about paper towels getting up against my eggs and clinging to the shells, thereby drowning them. Same inherent problems as you can have with vermiculite. I've found if there is some kind of mistake to make, I'll make it. Perlite saves me from myself!

The LARGE grade vermic (#3) doesn't have those problems too much. Just something I felt needed to be added. I agree with you completely otherwise.

PLUS, I weight the opinion on what works best for eggs on someone like Don Soderberg, RichZ, and Kathy Love. If paper towels worked as well as the other things, THEY would use it since it is cheaper/cleaner/easier. I don't KNOW what thelast two use, but I bet it isn't paper towels....lol. I think this would work OK for someone with a couple of clutches that they could keep an eye on every day, but I KNOW it wouldn't work for me even at my current level!

Something else: those that do produce a lot of clutches tend to get some good, fertile, clutches - or large portions of clutches - go bad. No obvious reason, but they still go bad. Once I switched to the 60:40 Perlite:vermic mixture, that has STOPPED here. Granted, it was rare before, but it hasn't happened here at ALL since I made the switch. (Yes, I still lose the occasional good egg for no apparent reason - I'm not perfect.)

KJ

 

[MegF.]

I know what you mean. I believe that Kathy uses vermiculite quite a bit. I'm sure she'll chime in at some point. I know she lists all sorts of egg mediums with the pros and cons in her book. I've had 100% hatch rate so far-admittedly I'm still new in the breeding business, but Stephen hatched out 6 clutches at my house on perlite (he was the one that got me started with perlite) and also had full hatch rates. At least I know I own't make some of the usual mistakes....I already learned my lesson about heat and eggs

 

[Marshall_P]

Isn't air an issue with the eggs? I thought that oxygen was a vital content for humidity, Just something I'd read but wasn't sure..

I've always used sphagnum moss for the snakes, hand-wrung to get the "perfect" moisture content. I no longer put any air holes in my containers. It prevents the flies from getting in as well as maintaining the moisture level. My moss used to dry out and I would have to always wet it down again by misting.