Yay Government health care:(

[danielle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8

Doesn't get better than this

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Ok, so from what I gathered from the video instead of your insurance deciding what it will and will not pay for, the governemnt is deciding what they will and will not pay for. *shrugs* Doesn't seem like a big difference to me. And I think it's fair for doctors to be paid the same, it also seems fair for some things to be mandatory.

The video keeps emphasizing the fact that things will be rationed. Doesn't seem that bad to me, or too terribly different from what's has previously been happening?

 

[bitsy]

With a central "pot" of funding, rationing is inevitable. It happens here all the time, although controversy is common. No system could fund unlimited types of treatments. And do health insurance companies not effectively do that already? e.g. denying cover for pre-existing conditions, proscribing what treatments/drugs their clients can have, regardless of recommendations by clinicians? At least with central guidance, the rationing has a chance of being more objective, rather than purely driven by requirements of a commercial profit margin.

Over here, we can still go private and buy treatments over and above those provided by the State if we can afford it. The concept is quite new for the majority of us, but you already have that system in place so it should be easier to mesh the two.

 

[Shiari]

The video is picking sentences piecemeal. For all we know, the "$5,000 per individual" is for preventative care such as vaccinations, routine physical exams, eye exams, prescriptions, etc. Something that insurance companies do already. And currently insurance companies will un-insure you if you pass a certain amount in medical costs anyways.

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/page/5/ the first one on this page brings up several good points and this has happened at my job. No raises this year, none last year, none the year before. Taxes taken were less this year, but for those of my coworkers who get health insurance through work, their paychecks were smaller because the health insurance cost was greater. At this point as a 27 year old female who does not drink or smoke I am paying about $260/month to Kaiser. I use their services *maybe* once a year, and lately that has been for "this cat bit me a little. Augmentin pls k thx." Kaiser is making bank off of me.

 

[danielle]

I take issue with the government choosing my treatments and medications- as is now my insurance company has never DENIED myself or family any prescribed treatments or medications including my son's behavioral and occupational therapy. Insurance compan ies can be a pain, but usually when push comes to shove they cave and pay for what is needed.
I take issue with illegals getting health care free of charge why not just open up the borders and scream come on in? I take issue with healthcare being mandatory because people who can't afford it now won't be able to afford it in a year either even if cost comes down those who are jobless will have to come off of the money themselves which will come from where? I take issue with small businesses being forced to pay for part-time employees health care as well as making family plans for these part time employees mandatory.
I take issue with the government deciding how much doctors can make because in doing this incentive is lost- just look at other countries with national health plans- they ALL have a shortage of doctors and nurses. Medical school and malpractice insurance isn't going to become any cheaper either, and if differences in skill can't earn a higher pay check many will decide against specializing or even practicing.
I also take issue with the government sanctioning no person can bring this health plan or their treatment into judicial review ever no matter the cause. Does this mean doctors employed by the government can abuse, neglect, and/or mistreat patients?

I find it strange no one has a problem with our government deciding where, from whom, when, and how we will be treated.
I find it even stranger people believe our government will look after us any better than an insurance company, that business in the US won't suffer, that health care shortages won't arise, that R&D won't be diminished, that our government can actually effectively manage the program, or that we as a country have the funds to sustain such a program.

 

[Butch]

I second what Danielle said, Ive had major skull surgery, hernia operations, eye surgeries and quite a few members of my family affected by several severe types of cancer and dealing with insurance has always been the least of our worries. Our government dispute the administration has yet to sucsessfully run a buisness/program and this is doomed to follow. I don't trust the government with my taxes much less my health

 

[wade]

Danielle, I agree with everything you said. Health care is not the business of any branch of the government.

 

[wstphal]

At this point as a 27 year old female who does not drink or smoke I am paying about $260/month to Kaiser. I use their services *maybe* once a year, and lately that has been for "this cat bit me a little. Augmentin pls k thx." Kaiser is making bank off of me.

That is the whole point of insurance! Those who don't end up needing it are paying into the same pot as those that do, and the $ from people like you pay for the person who gets a hideous bite infection that requires 10 days in the hospital and 2 surgeries to save the hand. I know it seems like a rip-off if you never use it, but without healthy people insurance companies go broke quickly. Now, is it a good deal for you? Only you can decide that. But the reason the Feds put in the individual mandate was to get healthy young people to pay in.

Does this mean that I think that "health care reform" is a good idea? Not necessarily. And does this mean I think health insurance companies are wonderful? Not at all! But let's take fire insurance on your house as an example. Everybody pays a little bit every year, but only a few people EVER have their house burn down. All those little bits add up to enough to pay the people who do lose their homes, and to pay the employees at the company and to pay dividends to the stockholders of the company. Health insurance is more expensive because so many people end up using it in any given year, but the principle should be the same IF things are working properly.

 

[tricksterpup]

I take issue with the government choosing my treatments and medications- as is now my insurance company has never DENIED myself or family any prescribed treatments or medications including my son's behavioral and occupational therapy. Insurance compan ies can be a pain, but usually when push comes to shove they cave and pay for what is needed..

Actually I have to disagree with you on that. Wait until you have a chronic condition or pre existing one.. Then you will be in for all the fun..

Lets say, you are a diabetic and you get a new great job. You get onto their insurance and start working. Well sadly, since you are a diabetic before hand the insurance company refuses to cover any of the medications or care for the diabetes for about 6 months to a year. This comes out of your own pocket.

Or how about your doctor thinks you should be on a new pill or drug to help prevent you from going onto Insulin and the company instead of paying for the more expensive medication tells your doctor they want you to be on insulin instead.
These are actual scenarios that have happened to me in the last 7 years of my life. I have so many problems with the insurance companies due to my ailment.

The second incident, my doctor was pissed and asked the person on the phone where they got their medical degree from. They hung up on him.


Another example, how many late teens and 20 something or people in there 30s here do not have Health Insurance. I can tell you I didnt through out my 20s. i couldnt afford it and most the jobs I had didnt offer it.

Most people do not realize that Good Health Insurance is a luxury of the Middle aged.

Well gosh, lets talk about another country that has free health Care. A friend of mine took his family to Rome. His son got some food with some Pine Nuts in it, the child almost died. My buddy pulled out his credit card and insurance info to be ready and they said it was taken care of due to their Health Care system. There was sigh of relief. There were no problems for them to get the care they needed and it didnt cost them anything.

Why are Americans afraid of Universal Health Care?

Seriously its probably going to cost the average person in taxes a few hundred a year. So I am paying for your kids or my neighbor, thats ok. Its going to a good cause to help my fellow man but serously Most people would spend that money that goes to Health Care in Alcohol, cigarettes or fast food in a year.

 

[danielle]

I'm all for some insurance company reform- just not universal health care. Have you been to Rome? Old, dirty, dilapidated, and in need of government funds- but there are none. In a universal system you may wait 6 months to a year just to be seen in a non life threatening case like needed knee and eye surgery, cancer treatments, cardiology diagnostic testing, MRI's, CAT scans, PET scans (if your lucky to be able to even get one), and other care we take for granted.
Today if you are uninsured you can still get all the care you need that same day, and most hospitals have a relationship with the State if your care is excessive- often times the State will pay the hospital off for you. I have never worked a job where insurance wasn't offered honestly and with all my son's health issues like asthma, autism, ADHD, and a ventricular septum defect we have never been told no or asked to use a different drug than our doctor prescribed. I'm not saying your complaints aren't valid or don't happen to others, but this universal plan isn't going to be beneficial to the majority, enhance care, or solve any of the issues anyone has complained about.
The truth is the government is going to say no to those same drugs, make you wait longer for care, give you fewer doctors to choose from, fewer medical facilities, doctors, and nurses per person, and limit the care you complain about now.

 

[wade]

I disagree with Mr. Pup whole heartedly. I to am diabetic. If you change jobs your insurance will carry over unless you have been out of work for more than 6 months. If you insurance company doesn't want to pay for the meds your doctor prescribes, you doctor can write a letter to them and tell them you need it and they will pay for it. That has happened to me on two different drugs I take, both times the insurance company said ok.

The Americans that are afraid of Universal Health Care are the ones that have looked around and seen what has happened to health care in other countries. They are the ones who are not expecting to get something for nothing. They are the ones who understand that everything the government does will cost more and produce a poor quality produce.

The people who support this nonsense are the ones saying "Oh Goodie, somebody else is going to pay for my insurance"

 

[tyflier]

...The Americans that are afraid of Universal Health Care are the ones that have looked around and seen what has happened to health care in other countries. They are the ones who are not expecting to get something for nothing. They are the ones who understand that everything the government does will cost more and produce a poor quality produce.

The people who support this nonsense are the ones saying "Oh Goodie, somebody else is going to pay for my insurance"

Come on, Wade...we can do without the broad-based insults and straw man arguments. These last two statements in your post are either completely uninformed or deliberately inflammatory.

I fail to see the difference between a board of insurance company directors and a board of elected officials choosing what health care a person is entitled to. In my opinion, it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. It is still a board of fat-cat directors deciding how much money they are willing to invest in an individual's life, and neither one is solely made up of doctors...especially not YOUR doctor or MY doctor.

I fail to see the difference between the government charging all of us a few more dollars in taxes to cover medical treatment for everyone, and an insurance company making a tremendous profit, doing the same thing.

Someone mentioned that insurance companies would go broke if not for the healthy people making outrageous payments every month. That person was absolutely correct. In essence, we already pay into the same "pool of resources" idea by making regular insurance payments that most healthy individuals don't ever use. I fail to see any difference whether it is a corporation or a government operated pool, other than the removal of the "for profit" margin that insurance companies are required to maintain to stay in business.

I don't see a problem with limiting the amount of preventative care costs and routine checkups an individual can get in a year. I also, again, don't see much difference in that limit being set by a board of directors of an insurance company or a board of elected officials. Again...neither one is a board of doctors, and certainly OUR doctors are not on that board, making that decision.

As for the immigrants and illegals...go watch the video, and checkout the disclaimer underneath, posted in August of 2009, that states that most of the video is no longer valid or accurate. This video was produced before all of the changes were made, and before the bill went into law. The video is outdated, and *most* of that stuff was changed. So, too, was the public funds for abortion, and many of the small-business requirements were lessened.

There seems to be a lot of talk from people about how bad it would be to take medical decisions out of the hands of doctors, but as near as I can tell, all of the same decisions are currently being made by fat-cat insurance company CEOs...not doctors. So what's the difference? Oh yea...the government doesn't need to make a profit at doing this. THAT'S the difference...I remember now...

 

[danielle]

Chris, If you think the government is taking health care away from the fat cats out of the goodness of their heart I am seriously worried about you Of course the government will profit while our taxes will be raised and we will still pay for our health care in the end- nothing is free and no one does anything not for profit including most all not for profits in existence today

 

[danielle]

Also illegal immigrants WILL still benefit from this system in the same ways they do now regardless of the changes made to the bill. Do you think if a person walks into an ER they will be asked for their immigration status? Do you think even if they were they would be denied care? The changes imposed by the government aren't going to fix the things we all complain about now- access the health care will be lessened not expanded. Giving people insurance is great, but with fewer doctors and facilities that need money to run people will wait longer for less care. Why does anyone think Canada and other countries have fought to have a private option or traveled out of country for care if it is so great and vast? Our government is going to penalize those who don't take the government option and unlike insurance companies who cave with doctors notes and calls do you see our government really caring what doctor so and so says we need?

 

[wade]

Come on, Wade...we can do without the broad-based insults and straw man arguments. These last two statements in your post are either completely uninformed or deliberately inflammatory.

I'll go for neither if those are my only two choices. Maybe a third option is that I'm very well informed and completely right.

I fail to see the difference between a board of insurance company directors and a board of elected officials choosing what health care a person is entitled to.

The difference is not only simple but enormous. Elected officials rarely do what the public wants them to do. Elected officials have chosen to make this law for us but not them. Insurance companies have to do a good enough job that people will buy the insurance, elected officials don't give a rats patuti what you think.

I fail to see the difference between the government charging all of us a few more dollars in taxes to cover medical treatment for everyone, and an insurance company making a tremendous profit, doing the same thing.

Could you give me one example of a government entity that is more efficient or more economical than private enterprise?

Someone mentioned that insurance companies would go broke if not for the healthy people making outrageous payments every month. That person was absolutely correct.

So you are saying that the government is going to provide the same level of health care for everyone for less money? I find that really hard to believe. The people with insurance now are the wage earners. The people who will be paying for the health care plan are the same people. Who wins here? The people who will be getting something for nothing.

I don't see a problem with limiting the amount of preventative care costs and routine checkups an individual can get in a year. I also, again, don't see much difference in that limit being set by a board of directors of an insurance company or a board of elected officials. Again...neither one is a board of doctors, and certainly OUR doctors are not on that board, making that decision.

Again, you are saying that elected officials are going to respond the same way a for profit company will. Does the Post office care what the public thinks? Does UPS or Fed Ex?

There seems to be a lot of talk from people about how bad it would be to take medical decisions out of the hands of doctors, but as near as I can tell, all of the same decisions are currently being made by fat-cat insurance company CEOs...not doctors. So what's the difference? Oh yea...the government doesn't need to make a profit at doing this. THAT'S the difference...I remember now...

Well yes that is a huge difference. Does it always come down to the "fat-cat" that is stealing from us. How about the government that is stealing from us. If insurance companies raised their prices like the government raises taxes they and we would all be broke. The gov has raised taxes over and over and still are going into debt and you want to compare them to insurance companies who have to keep their prices affordable for the majority while at the same time making a profit. And before you come back as say that insurance is not affordable remember that 85% of the country has insurance. Anyone who thinks the gov will do it better and cheaper is being very foolish.

 

[danielle]

I think it is also important to remember insurance companies on average only make a 4% profit per year after taxes. In the scheme of things their not quite as fat as most think. They take on a great deal of risk insuring patients especially with the rates of obesity and other life style choices that cause the bulk of health care claims a year. I know for my family of four we pay a little over $200 a month after what our job pays for us, but its a small price when I add up what my sons meds alone would cost not to mention therapy, doctor visits, vaccinations, his nebulizer machine, and equipment among other expenses.

Before I had my kids my job paid 100% of my insurance with no deductible, $5 office visits, $10 hospital visits, and $20 to visit any specialist.

 

[wade]

Danielle, you are one of the smartest ladies I know. I must spread rep, sorry.

 

[danielle]

Thanks my much missed Wadeypoo maybe with this new health care plan I can work less and spend more time on here...j/k...kinda

 

[wade]

Danielle, I have missed you so. You always have good thing to say. Not that foolish crap some folks like to fling. Are you still married? My geckos laid more eggs, I think I am going to be rich. People will call me a fat-cat.

 

[tyflier]

Well yes that is a huge difference. Does it always come down to the "fat-cat" that is stealing from us. How about the government that is stealing from us. If insurance companies raised their prices like the government raises taxes they and we would all be broke. The gov has raised taxes over and over and still are going into debt and you want to compare them to insurance companies who have to keep their prices affordable for the majority while at the same time making a profit. And before you come back as say that insurance is not affordable remember that 85% of the country has insurance. Anyone who thinks the gov will do it better and cheaper is being very foolish.

Come on, Wade. Even you can't validate those last two statements you made as anything other than paranoia, and a straw man. "Anyone who agrees with HCR, wants something for nothing" is the sum and substance of your final paragraph. Intentionally inflammatory or uninformed? It certainly isn't accurate or well informed, so that doesn't leave many other options.

There are more things making a mess of ex-communist countries than UHC. And from what I have seen and read, and discussed with private foreign citizens of non-communist coutnries(like Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, and The Netherlands), most of them would take their UHC with all of it's downfalls over our messed up system in everything but the most extreme cases of medical needs. Most of them go to Great Britain...

Where do you get 85% as the number of Americans with health insurance? Show me THAT documentation... The biggest reason FOR the reform is to provide insurance to the nearly 35% of the population that is without. How does 85 + 35 equal 100%?

And our taxes are used for the little things...you know...infrastructure, paying CEOs for making horrible decisions under the last administration, paying the banks for trying to play investment broker with private money not intended to be invested, paying for a war that was started under false pretenses, and from which we are now inextricable without a tremendous loss of life...you know...little things like that...

Nobody ever said the government would do it "better" or "cheaper". Differently, is just fine by me. I'm not afraid of trying something new, because I am not afraid of admitting that the status quo in health care is a bunch of hooey designed with profit mnargiins taking precedent over life. There is no black and white answer in this situation. You would prefer to keep it the way it is. I would prefer to try something new. Evidently the majority of the country, including the decision makers, agree with me.

But we can still have a conversation without you tossing out handgrenade insults like your last sentence...again. People do not have to agree with you to be intelligent, contrary to what you think. Your opinion is not the only possible perspective on the situation capable of making sense, and I, for one, wopuld appreciate it if you stopped insulting everyone that disagreed with you...again...