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Aaron, The "Pot smoking, sinner."

I have to disagree with you here. My grandfather drank his entire adult life, and by drank, I mean a lot. He never hurt anyone doing it, and never got hurt doing it. In fact, he was on his way to propose to my grandmother again when he was run off the road and drown in about 2 ft of water. He was in a soft top corvair, and could not get out of the vehicle. This was when my father was 9, so I never knew the man personally. But, I know he was a drunk, and never hurt anyone.

Using one example is not really proof of anything. That's sort of like saying "My grandma smoked cigarettes her whole life and never got lung cancer, so cigarettes don't cause lung cancer!" You know? I think it goes without saying that people can and often times DO hurt themselves or others while they are drunk. BECAUSE they are drunk. I can't really see any logical argument against that.
 
It is about morals, no matter how you slice it. It is my moral belief that we should be making laws that restrict the use of harmful substances (harmful meaning potentially deadly and unnecessary). It is your moral belief that laws like that would be restricting people too much. (from what I gather)

Morals should have nothing to do with laws. It is your morals that keep you from indulging in Marijuana or alcohol. Your morals should have no standing on keeping someone else who does not have the same moral's as you from doing what they feel is ok to do. That is where I see our congress critters getting out of hand. They are passing things based on either their morals or the person putting money in their pocket, not what the majority wants.
 
Using one example is not really proof of anything. That's sort of like saying "My grandma smoked cigarettes her whole life and never got lung cancer, so cigarettes don't cause lung cancer!" You know? I think it goes without saying that people can and often times DO hurt themselves or others while they are drunk. BECAUSE they are drunk. I can't really see any logical argument against that.

Actually using that one example disproved your reasoning. You had a broad statement that included everyone who uses alcohol to excess, and I gave an example that disproved your statement. That is where my argument was logical.
 
I too must say that I am on the same side (Eric & GCGirl) as far as legalizing Mary-J. It makes sense on many levels.

I belong to enough adult forums that I have plenty of places to discuss this subject. It is interesting though how popular this thread is.... seems to be a subject people want to talk about.


You haven't been here long enough to know that ANY post made that invites a debate is popular (on this forum). Even if it is about a cornsnake morph (ahem... cough cough.. ;) )

Nancy, your talk of fine wines and cheese is evil... while I am at work.
 
It is about morals, no matter how you slice it. It is my moral belief that we should be making laws that restrict the use of harmful substances (harmful meaning potentially deadly and unnecessary).
Harmful doesn't mean potentially deadly and unnecessary, and marijuana isn't potentially deadly to begin with, but I don't want to split hairs. Think of all life's joys that aren't necessary! One enjoyment that the general public couldn't comprehend but everyone here could appreciate is opening drawers of reptiles. Pairing them up and hatching eggs. Watching the genetic lottery unfold every summer. There's nothing "necessary" about "our thing", and there are people who DO want to ban it! Try to open your mind to other people's "thing." What is gained by forcing society to conform to the whim of the majority?
It is your moral belief that laws like that would be restricting people too much. (from what I gather)

Then "my morals" dictate that I not impede the lives of adults with different morals.
 
Harmful doesn't mean potentially deadly and unnecessary, and marijuana isn't potentially deadly to begin with, but I don't want to split hairs. Think of all life's joys that aren't necessary! One enjoyment that the general public couldn't comprehend but everyone here could appreciate is opening drawers of reptiles. Pairing them up and hatching eggs. Watching the genetic lottery unfold every summer. There's nothing "necessary" about "our thing", and there are people who DO want to ban it! Try to open your mind to other people's "thing." What is gained by forcing society to conform to the whim of the majority?


Then "my morals" dictate that I not impede the lives of adults with different morals.
nail......... Head.......... bingo......:bowdown::bowdown:
 
You haven't been here long enough to know that ANY post made that invites a debate is popular (on this forum). Even if it is about a cornsnake morph (ahem... cough cough.. ;) )

Nancy, your talk of fine wines and cheese is evil... while I am at work.

Thank God it is ANYTHING besides politics!!!

I told you about Friday, my student mentioned the W word, and we spent the next two hours Googling different wines we love, saying You have to try this!!! I'd bet a million dollars you'd love this!!!
 
Harmful doesn't mean potentially deadly and unnecessary, and marijuana isn't potentially deadly to begin with, but I don't want to split hairs. Think of all life's joys that aren't necessary! One enjoyment that the general public couldn't comprehend but everyone here could appreciate is opening drawers of reptiles. Pairing them up and hatching eggs. Watching the genetic lottery unfold every summer. There's nothing "necessary" about "our thing", and there are people who DO want to ban it! Try to open your mind to other people's "thing." What is gained by forcing society to conform to the whim of the majority?


Then "my morals" dictate that I not impede the lives of adults with different morals.


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Chip, my hat is off to you sticking to the theme of "you can't legislate morality". That has been a fascinating theme for me over the years. And one that it took me a long time to realize others could not quite make the "leap of faith in humanity" to leave legislation and morality in twain.

I'm feeling deja vu here, seems like I was just using the visage of Carry A. Nation, with her hatchet and bible, in a thread recently to illustrate the 'historically charming' [/sarcasm font] but pragmatically obsolete notion of prohibition. To me, the obvious 'change over time' of thought...is virtually caricatured in this 130+/- year old pic.

AA_carry-nation-inline.jpg


Hey Aaron, do any of your anti-this/anti-that hobgoblins out there look like this old harridan? :laugh:
 
Morals should have nothing to do with laws. It is your morals that keep you from indulging in Marijuana or alcohol. Your morals should have no standing on keeping someone else who does not have the same moral's as you from doing what they feel is ok to do. That is where I see our congress critters getting out of hand. They are passing things based on either their morals or the person putting money in their pocket, not what the majority wants.

Wait, are you guys serious? Murder is only illegal because it's morally wrong. Rape, assault, theft. All of these laws are in place because it's "wrong" to do those things. Some things are just universally against people's morals.

Yes, I did make a bit of a general statement about all people who are drunk being dangerous. And elrojo "What is gained by forcing society to conform to the whim of the majority? " Erm, how about our next president? XD

And lots of things are unnecessary, and that's fine. But if they're dangerous to a certain degree, they are generally a bad thing. Pot is dangerous, potentially deadly, and unnecessary. Breeding snakes is arguably dangerous, but almost never deadly. It's also unnecessary, but since it isn't dangerous it's fine! You see? I'll say it again "If it's necessary but dangerous it's a must have. If it's unnecessary, but NOT dangerous then it's fine. If it's unnecessary and only a LITTLE dangerous then it's debatable."
 
I would like to see your source of this information?

76 Ways Sugar Can Ruin Your Health...AND A COUPLE MORE!

Contributed by Nancy Appleton, Ph.D Author of the book Lick the Sugar Habit

In addition to throwing off the body's homeostasis, excess sugar may result in a number of other significant consequences. The following is a listing of some of sugar's metabolic consequences from a variety of medical journals and other scientific publications.

Sugar can suppress your immune system and impair your defenses against infectious disease.1,2

Sugar upsets the mineral relationships in your body: causes chromium and copper deficiencies and interferes with absorption of calcium and magnesium. 3,4,5,6

Sugar can cause can cause a rapid rise of adrenaline, hyperactivity, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and crankiness in children.7,8

Sugar can produce a significant rise in total cholesterol, triglycerides and bad cholesterol and a decrease in good cholesterol.9,10,11,12

Sugar causes a loss of tissue elasticity and function.13

Sugar feeds cancer cells and has been connected with the development of cancer of the breast, ovaries, prostate, rectum, pancreas, biliary tract, lung, gallbladder and stomach.14,15,16,17,18,19,20

Sugar can increase fasting levels of glucose and can cause reactive hypoglycemia.21,22

Sugar can weaken eyesight.23

Sugar can cause many problems with the gastrointestinal tract including: an acidic digestive tract, indigestion, malabsorption in patients with functional bowel disease, increased risk of Crohn's disease, and ulcerative colitis.24,25,26,27,28

Sugar can cause premature aging.29

Sugar can lead to alcoholism.30

Sugar can cause your saliva to become acidic, tooth decay, and periodontal disease.31,32,33

Sugar contributes to obesity.34

Sugar can cause autoimmune diseases such as: arthritis, asthma, multiple sclerosis.35,36,37

Sugar greatly assists the uncontrolled growth of Candida Albicans (yeast infections)38

Sugar can cause gallstones.39

Sugar can cause appendicitis.40

Sugar can cause hemorrhoids.41

Sugar can cause varicose veins.42

Sugar can elevate glucose and insulin responses in oral contraceptive users.43

Sugar can contribute to osteoporosis.44

Sugar can cause a decrease in your insulin sensitivity thereby causing an abnormally high insulin levels and eventually diabetes.45,46,47

Sugar can lower your Vitamin E levels.48

Sugar can increase your systolic blood pressure.49

Sugar can cause drowsiness and decreased activity in children.50

High sugar intake increases advanced glycation end products (AGEs)(Sugar molecules attaching to and thereby damaging proteins in the body).51

Sugar can interfere with your absorption of protein.52

Sugar causes food allergies.53

Sugar can cause toxemia during pregnancy.54

Sugar can contribute to eczema in children.55

Sugar can cause atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease.56,57

Sugar can impair the structure of your DNA.58

Sugar can change the structure of protein and cause a permanent alteration of the way the proteins act in your body.59,60

Sugar can make your skin age by changing the structure of collagen.61

Sugar can cause cataracts and nearsightedness.62,63

Sugar can cause emphysema.64

High sugar intake can impair the physiological homeostasis of many systems in your body.65

Sugar lowers the ability of enzymes to function.66

Sugar intake is higher in people with Parkinson's disease.67

Sugar can increase the size of your liver by making your liver cells divide and it can increase the amount of liver fat.68,69

Sugar can increase kidney size and produce pathological changes in the kidney such as the formation of kidney stones.70,71

Sugar can damage your pancreas.72

Sugar can increase your body's fluid retention.73

Sugar is enemy #1 of your bowel movement.74

Sugar can compromise the lining of your capillaries.75

Sugar can make your tendons more brittle.76

Sugar can cause headaches, including migraines.77

Sugar can reduce the learning capacity, adversely affect school children's grades and cause learning disorders.78,79

Sugar can cause an increase in delta, alpha, and theta brain waves which can alter your mind's ability to think clearly.80

Sugar can cause depression.81

Sugar can increase your risk of gout.82

Sugar can increase your risk of Alzheimer's disease.83

Sugar can cause hormonal imbalances such as: increasing estrogen in men, exacerbating PMS, and decreasing growth hormone.84,85,86,87

Sugar can lead to dizziness.88

Diets high in sugar will increase free radicals and oxidative stress.89

High sucrose diets of subjects with peripheral vascular disease significantly increases platelet adhesion.90

High sugar consumption of pregnant adolescents can lead to substantial decrease in gestation duration and is associated with a twofold increased risk for delivering a small-for-gestational-age (SGA) infant.91,92

Sugar is an addictive substance.93

Sugar can be intoxicating, similar to alcohol.94

Sugar given to premature babies can affect the amount of carbon dioxide they produce.95

Decrease in sugar intake can increase emotional stability.96

Your body changes sugar into 2 to 5 times more fat in the bloodstream than it does starch.97

The rapid absorption of sugar promotes excessive food intake in obese subjects.98

Sugar can worsen the symptoms of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).99

Sugar adversely affects urinary electrolyte composition.100

Sugar can slow down the ability of your adrenal glands to function.101

Sugar has the potential of inducing abnormal metabolic processes in a normal healthy individual and to promote chronic degenerative diseases.102

I.V.s (intravenous feedings) of sugar water can cut off oxygen to your brain.103

Sugar increases your risk of polio.104

High sugar intake can cause epileptic seizures.105

Sugar causes high blood pressure in obese people.106

In intensive care units: Limiting sugar saves lives.107

Sugar may induce cell death.108

In juvenile rehabilitation camps, when children were put on a low sugar diet, there was a 44 percent drop in antisocial behavior.109

Sugar dehydrates newborns.110

Sugar can cause gum disease.111
 
I'm not so sure about some of those, but I can believe others. But honestly, smoking pt can cause
lung cancer
throat cancer
a suppressed immune system
pulmonary infections
acute toxic psychosis
panic attacks
flashbacks
delusions
depersonalization
hallucinations
paranoia
depression
and increased heart rate

So it's still dangerous.
 
i agree vicky, not trying to defend pot smoking but at the same time, you can smoke pot all day for a month and be a bit overweight and lazy lol

or

you eat a lot of sugar everyday for a month and risk losing your teeth lol
 
i agree vicky, not trying to defend pot smoking but at the same time, you can smoke pot all day for a month and be a bit overweight and lazy lol

or

you eat a lot of sugar everyday for a month and risk losing your teeth lol

Only if you don't brush your teeth.
 
Wait, are you guys serious? Murder is only illegal because it's morally wrong. Rape, assault, theft. All of these laws are in place because it's "wrong" to do those things. Some things are just universally against people's morals.

Yes, I did make a bit of a general statement about all people who are drunk being dangerous. And elrojo "What is gained by forcing society to conform to the whim of the majority? " Erm, how about our next president? XD

And lots of things are unnecessary, and that's fine. But if they're dangerous to a certain degree, they are generally a bad thing. Pot is dangerous, potentially deadly, and unnecessary. Breeding snakes is arguably dangerous, but almost never deadly. It's also unnecessary, but since it isn't dangerous it's fine! You see? I'll say it again "If it's necessary but dangerous it's a must have. If it's unnecessary, but NOT dangerous then it's fine. If it's unnecessary and only a LITTLE dangerous then it's debatable."

Sorry, but this country was based on freedom, not your viewpoint on what is neccessary or dangerous or whatever. You might be just fine with Big Brother watching your every move, and telling you how to get your anti oxidents, or what kinds of animals you can keep....but most THINKING adults that are not robots will fight to the death for their freedom.

You CANNOT legislate morality, and that is just what you are proposing.

Sure murder and rape are against the law. But then why does it still happen? Why hasn't the law prevented rape and murder? Locking up killers and rapists is not only a punishment, it saves other potential victims. And you want pot smokers and wine drinkers in that same category? Are YOU serious?????

There are alot of things I hate, cigarettes being one of them. Yet I bristle at every single infrigement on a person's right to smoke wherever and whenever they please! Why? Because IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!!

But hey, I hear Singapore is nice this time of year....
 
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