My right to bear arms is under fire right now.

[Chip]

20 little kids were killed on Friday. Have you seen their photos? How many deaths do you require for it to be statistically important for you? WOW, forget about having fun with a cool looking weapon and think about a little kid shot to pieces.

MY GUNS DIDN'T KILL THEM!!! Vince Neil's car and Tommy Lee's swimming pool have each killed more people than all my guns.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Wow, it seems a lot of the anti gun people are reaching for bits and pieces.

Mr. Oni, I am sorry but I do not believe we should take the guns out of the hands of our veterans. This is just going to make those that suffer from PTSD less likely to seek help from the VA. I think it is stupid to take the word of the VA. You know how much they try to sweep under the rug???? Seriously!

I know several veterans that suffer from PTSD that own guns that have never gone on a killing spree. These are veterans that fought in the Vietnam war. So 40 yrs of non violence with their guns? I know several veterans from the gulf wars that have PTSD that have never been on a killing spree. So, I will not take the word of the VA as to if a veteran is competent to own guns.

I have seen the pictures of those babies and the heroes that gave their lives trying to protect them. I know their names and ages. My heart aches for them and their families. But turning their deaths into an argument for anti gun laws is doing a great injustice to their memory.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hocksprung, 47
Madeline Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto, 27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6

After Columbine, they outlawed Mac10s which were used in that massacre. It did not stop school shootings. These madmen just used different weapons.

I don't know who said this, some claim it was Morgan Freeman, other site it wasn't him. Either way, it is very powerful.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities.

Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way.

Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

[Chip]

Got it to embed.

Also, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ranks gun control laws in Connecticut (and neighboring states New Jersey, New York and Massachusetts) as the most stringent in the nation, after California. How could it happen there?

 

[Rich Z]

OK, so it goes in the give up pile and we all rely on hope.

I think we should consider closing the gunshow loophole and ban assault weapons, but of course these meausres would not be acceptable to most gun zealots. You know back in the day gunshows were like reptile shows, private folks brought a few guns/animals to a show and made some quick sales. You go to a show nowdays and it's not uncommon to see a single table with 500+ weapons and people walking out with a box full of guns.

So, let's see. The "gunshow loophole" is the fact that people have the right to sell their personal belongings without government interference. Is that what you are referring to that you think should be ended? That a person must have the permission of the government in order to sell their personally owned firearms?

And banning assault weapons has already been tried. I suppose you think that it was merely an accident that the law was allowed to sunset. Seriously, what did the previous law really accomplish? "Assault weapons" available to the public are not what the military uses. We only get the semi-automatic versions that do not have select fire capability. Except in extreme cases where an AR-15 might be custom accurized for long range target competitions, a bone stock hunting rifle in .308 will take out a shooter of an AR-15 long before he gets within shooting range of his adversary. Check out what the SWAT snipers use. Yeah, give me a paintball gun with the range of a hunting rifle and you have one with only the range of an AR-15 and we'll see who has paint marks on their forehead at the end of the day. :grin01:

As for your comment about gun shows, I'm sure from what you have been writing in this thread that you attend a lot of gun shows. And you've seen LOTS of 8 foot tables with 500+ guns on them. And you have also noted people walking out of gun shows after buying a "box full of guns".

Sorry, but I don't believe a single word of that at all. I HAVE been to a lot of gunshows.

 

[Rich Z]

20 little kids were killed on Friday. Have you seen their photos? How many deaths do you require for it to be statistically important for you? WOW, forget about having fun with a cool looking weapon and think about a little kid shot to pieces.

None of my "cool looking guns" were used in this incident. As far as I can tell, no LEGITIMATE owner of such guns were involved neither.

These are the kinds of facts that are relevant to the discussion. You are merely providing emotionally based arm waving and foot stamping.

 

[HeavenHell]

Excuse me, but don't don't presume to know me or call me a liar. I've collected firearms for 20+ years.

 

[Rich Z]

Excuse me, but don't don't presume to know me or call me a liar. I've collected firearms for 20+ years.

Sorry, but I don't believe that, neither.

 

[HeavenHell]

Well I feel bad for you then. It's hard to have conversation with people who get rude and angry when you offer up ideas. Check my photobucket album, I have photos of some of my rifles there. I posted photos of my S&W performance model 952 last year. Nanci might remember it.

 

[Chip]

It's hard to have conversation with people who get rude and angry when you offer up ideas.

To be fair, you've offered up banning assault weapons (which aren't even a thing)
Shooting paintballs at each other to prove a non-point
Closing a gun show loophole that doesn't exist.

I would never have dreamed you knew a flash hider from a shoulder thingie that goes up from your posts.

 

[HeavenHell]

There is such a thing as an assault rifle and there is a gunshow loophole. Now I know you know how to use google, try it.

You've offered nothing to the conversation. You'd be a good candidate for Congress. No we can't do this, no we can't do that. Guns are cool and fun to shoot.

 

[airenlow]

Mass Shootings in Schools: The Worst Possible Case for Gun Control
http://www.uta.fi/arkisto/aktk/projects/sta/Kleck_2009_Mass_Shootings_in_Schools.pdf

Great read!

There is such a thing as an assault rifle and there is a gunshow loophole. Now I know you know how to use google, try it.

You've offered nothing to the conversation. You'd be a good candidate for Congress. No we can't do this, no we can't do that. Guns are cool and fun to shoot.

Did you read the study?

 

[MysticExotics]

20 little kids were killed on Friday. Have you seen their photos? How many deaths do you require for it to be statistically important for you? WOW, forget about having fun with a cool looking weapon and think about a little kid shot to pieces.

Well, by your "logic" then silverware (forks/spoons/knives) should be banned, because they're making thousands of people obese, giving them a number of medical problems such as diabetes, etc. *Ultimately leading to death.

The guns are not the problem, the people are!

These same people who are causing these problems will *not* abide by gun restriction laws, just like drug dealers do not abide by drug laws.

All you do is keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, preventing them from being able to defend themselves.

 

[fyrefocks]

Chip, that email is absolutely nonsense.

This is all I have to add to this discussion. I'm not for guns in the sense that I need to have them. I'm not against them in the sense that no one should have them. I don't like the idea of full autos, flamethrowers, or projectiles in the hands of civilians, but since it's your right, and mine too, I keep my mouth shut about it. I've also been lucky enough to have never needed to defend myself against anyone. I hope I never have to.

 

[Chip]

There is such a thing as an assault rifle and there is a gunshow loophole. Now I know you know how to use google, try it.

I don't need to use Google to learn the definition of something I have built 3 of. An "assault" weapon not a thing -or in Feinstein's mind, it is a semi-auto that looks cool. Define it another way. I'll be waiting.

Gun show loophole? A dealer at a gun show has no "loophole." They require the same ID, background, etc. as an FFL at their shop. A non FFL has the same requirements to sell to another individual as they would if they weren't at a gun show. Look it up yourself.

You've offered nothing to the conversation. You'd be a good candidate for Congress. No we can't do this, no we can't do that. Guns are cool and fun to shoot.

I've offered nothing? Ignore my facts and stats, and I'll guess you don't want to hear those. You like operating on emotion, clearly. Good luck with that.

 

[Rich Z]

Well I feel bad for you then. It's hard to have conversation with people who get rude and angry when you offer up ideas. Check my photobucket album, I have photos of some of my rifles there. I posted photos of my S&W performance model 952 last year. Nanci might remember it.

OK, then if you can explain a statement you made that I am calling BS to, then I'll apologize for inferring that you are a liar just making up BS to try to support your opinions.

You made this statement:

You go to a show nowdays and it's not uncommon to see a single table with 500+ weapons

Tables at gun shows are normally either 6 ft or 8 ft in length, and 20 to 24 inches in width. So let's give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the largest size of 8 ft x 2 ft. That gives us 2,304 square inches of table space for a seller to use to display 500+ guns, as you claim. I have a Glock 33 right here that is considerably smaller than average of the plethora of firearms that a person could be selling at a show. If we figure out how much surface area each of those 500 guns is going to need to be placed on this 8 ft x 2 ft table, we come up with 4.6 square inches EACH. That's a square a little more than 2 INCHES per side. For EACH and EVERY gun needed to be on that table. So here I am trying to figure out how I could put my Glock 33 in such an area on my desk, and I'm having a lot of trouble, I'll admit, making that work.

So please explain to me how those sellers, and I presume there were quite a number of them, since you claim that what you apparently saw with your own two eyes (presumed) was "not uncommon", were able to accomplish this feat. I've been to a LOT of gun shows and have never seen even near that type of density of firearms on display on a single table EVER.

I have an apology awaiting your explanation.

 

[HeavenHell]

All you do is keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, preventing them from being able to defend themselves.

Did you even read my posts? I'm not advocating banning all guns. I have guns myself. No law-abiding citizen needs an AR-15 for personal defense. The gun show loop hole enables any crazy person to walk up to a table an purchase a gun or two or three. The argument against it is that it causes too great of an incovenience for the buyer and seller?

 

[HeavenHell]

If you really think that an eating utensile and a gun are similar, then I'm sorry but I'm not able to have an intelligent conversation with you.

 

[tsst]

I never understood the failed logic that removing rights of the law abiding somehow equates to stopping or even slowing crime. :shrugs:

 

[Rich Z]

Did you even read my posts? I'm not advocating banning all guns. I have guns myself. No law-abiding citizen needs an AR-15 for personal defense. The gun show loop hole enables any crazy person to walk up to a table an purchase a gun or two or three. The argument against it is that it causes too great of an incovenience for the buyer and seller?

No, people don't really NEED a lot of things. But is having our freedom limited strictly based on NEED what people died for creating and defending this country? Some may consider WANTING an AR-15 as a pursuit of their own happiness simply because it's something they WANT to have. You obviously see no issues with the government wanting to place itself in the middle of such things.

The issue of private sales at gun shows also relates to the concept of freedom. If I decide I want to sell one of my guns, why should I be burdened with the red tape required to get the government's permission in order to do so? Because of a "could happen", or "might happen"? That the worst case scenario has to be presumed likely and I would be required to take steps to prevent what someone else MIGHT DO? Sorry, but I just do not see the logic in the argument saying that I MUST do that. And as has been stated, this "loophole" has nothing specific to do with gun shows at all. A person could just as easily put an ad in the local newspaper (unless the newspaper is leaning a bit too far to the left and prohibits it) and sell one or more guns at their front door to ANYONE they choose to. Or does something like that also bear the label of being a "loophole" in the government's control of ALL firearm sales between people?

 

[Rich Z]

I never understood the failed logic that removing rights of the law abiding somehow equates to stopping or even slowing crime. :shrugs:

Can anyone even show any correlation between gun laws and the reduction of crime ANYWHERE? Heck, by that sort of logic, it's a wonder that anyone is still alive in America after the carnage that should have happened prior to 1934 when anyone could buy machine guns. And up to 1968 anyone could buy guns via mail order and order such things as a Lahti 20mm anti-tank cannon out of a magazine. How was it that I managed to survive past my 18th birthday with all those guns being readily available?

The obvious answers are being studiously ignored.