Interesting video.......

[tom e]

You posted the initial video looking for people to band up with, so if you get upset with my opinion then so be it. I don't care if you threaten to ban me, because as long as I keep it to the topic and curse-free, I feel no pressure to hold my tongue. Your an Admin, not god, so your judgement say's nothing to me. Maybe you weren't expecting people to call out that video in the first place, but who cares. You put it out there, and I gave you my opinion. If you think threatening to ban me will work, then that's your problem. Ban me or don't, but in no way will I conform to your opinion. I felt everything I said was truthful, and I made sure not to offend anyone who wasn't looking to create problems. Maybe you think that being an Administrator of cornsnake.com/forums gives you the right to create propaganda at will, but I won't tolerate any of it. Your not the judge and jury, and if you think you can threaten me with a ban, than I have to say your threat falls on me like a grain of salt. Maybe you should add more objectivity to what you produce if you don't want such responses. It seems to me that you think that being an Admin gives you the right to put out anything you want with zero back-lash, but it doesn't. If I have to I'll create my own forum, and I do know how so it matters not, to me!.

Careful. That's not an admin, that's the owner.. We don't have "freedom of speach" here, or rather we only have as much as he graciously allows us.

Why not argue against the video directly if you disagree with it? Getting emotional, you are walking the line..

 

[tom e]

Just out of curiosity what did you mean by that? You say this like it's something that he could leverage but I wouldn't see the benefit of it since over 70% of the population is white. Maybe I misunderstood what you mean by that.

You are presupposing that the 70% white population is not concerned about racism.. (or maybe I should say, "can't be swayed by percieved racism" real or not) I don't think that's the case.

 

[Ricky87]

Tom E, I respect you a whole lot. I know you think I've crossed the line a time or two, but I appreciate you are trying to get where I'm coming from. You have very informed opinions, and I appreciate that you're trying to help me with your quotes, instead of condemn me. Your post about "You are presupposing that the 70% white population is not concerned about racism.. I don't think that's the case." is also dead on. Just, because we are white we're supposed to accept the privileges that come along with not being in the minority?. As for Cassie J, I already said that I was heated with my first few posts, because of an untrue video, so when another came up that was even worse, I was forced to react. Maybe some people are fine letting people get slandered as long as it's not them, but I'm not. Criticize me all you want, but I at least watch all the debates, and to be honest, I DO respect McCain on some issues. For starters, last night he really impressed me with his stance on education, but you know what, so did Obama. I also admire him distancing himself from George W. Bush, but his policies are 90% the same as Bush's. I think McCain is worlds better than Al Gore, or John Kerry, and definitely George Bush, but he's still willing to condemn a better man than him, in Barack Obama. He's openly standing in the way of a more qualified person, just as he would have been with Hilary Clinton. How come he respects Sarah Palin so much, and Barack and Hilary so little?. How come people get so mis-leading when it comes to showing the facts about Obama?. Basically, agree or don't, but I haven't attacked anyone, and the only comments I've made have come from people who are just plain belittling Barack Obama. He's not a character, he's a real person, and so is McCain, but Obama is the only one getting all of the youtube links for. Maybe that's fair for you, and maybe it's easier for you to saty out the the kitchen, but I have a self ingrained dedication to dis-spelling the lies, and supporting the truth, regardless of how you percieve me. I DON'T WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY, but for some reason people don't care that when they post these videos it heavily offends me. Fair is fair, and if you want my full views read all of my posts, and not just a choice few!.

 

[Nova_C]

It is your belief that Obama is more qualified, but what objective facts do you have to support this? Neither man has ever been president before. Technically, Bush is more qualified than Obama since the man has 8 years experience in the job, but you're quick to dismiss Bush. Anyway, it's rather arrogant to criticize McCain for

willing to condemn a better man than him, in Barack Obama.

Besides, the two are competing for the same job, of course they're going to criticize each other.

I read all of your posts and you came into this thread with the same level of propaganda and exaggeration as the video you're so incensed about.

 

[Rich Z]

Sorry, but maybe thats because white priviledge has existed in this countries for centuries, and if we blended white people into the "NAACP" and "United Negro Colledge Fund" it would dilute the underlying reason to why those organizations are in existence in the first place. I'm white, but I'm not going to undermine the right of black people to create organizations to better their place in society just, because I'm left out. I come from immigrants, but generally white ancestry has taken so much livelihood from minorities over centuries, so don't even pretend we're suddenly on a level playing field. The average annual white persons income is around 50,000$ dollars, whereas the average annual black persons income is around 8,000$. I'm sure you have some wonderful reason for why that is, but frankly it comes down to an "oppressive society". That is a fact, that I ignore all disputes about. Unless of course you say it's, because white people are harder workers in this "equal oppurtunity society", in which case I say ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO WAY, NOT TRUE!. My mother is white, and my Aunt is black, and yet my whole family can attest that, growing up in a rural pre-dominantly white community, my Aunt did not have a boyfriend, nor did her friends parents allow her over for playdates and dinner as a child and teenager. My aunt is now 36 years old, so it's not ancient history, and what do you think became of those children who were told it was wrong to associate with her?. They have jobs, businesses, and children, and I will bet that alot of that racism is still being passed generationally through their families. I can also gaurantee this was not an isolated incident, but luckily for me my aunt is a strong black women and had the ability to not succumb to this racism, and is now a very successful women living in New York, and a great mother I might add!. All of that is no thanks to the racism she endured as a child. Luckily through her, it has taught me right and wrong from a very young age, and I will always condemn ignorance of all forms, regardless of how ignorant people may be!.

I'm not going to call you a racist for this quote alone, but it does show that you personally have alot of soul searching to do. "That also does not mean that I am blind to statistical evidence of the predisposition of certain classes of people to act in predictable ways....Yes, I DO judge people by their appearance and mannerisms. And so does everyone else if they are honest with themselves. It would be very stupid NOT to"; This shows that you do judge color, and you do have some very serious racist tendencies, regardless of how you choose to defend it. I will listen very openly to how you defend this, and I hope for your sake this is not a true reflection of your character, because this is just un-acceptable!.

Oh really?

So you are saying that discrimination and prejudice are OK as long as the reasons for it meet with your approval?

Are you saying that it is OK for a white man to be denied a job because he is white and an employer needs to meet a quota for hiring a black and/or a woman yet it is NOT OK for a black and/or woman to be denied a job because they are black and/or a woman? Where exactly is the line you see drawn to separate prejudice from even handed fairness? In a case of TRUE nondiscrimination, the BEST person for the job would be hired, regardless of their race or sex.

And "appearances", btw, doesn't necessarily mean color at all. Or are you trying to tell me that you are completely unprejudiced and non-discriminatory in all facets of your own life? That would be MOST unusual, to say the least.

 

[tom e]

Tom E, I respect you a whole lot. I know you think I've crossed the line a time or two, but I appreciate you are trying to get where I'm coming from. .

Ricky I'd like to see that you are respecting EVERYONE a whole lot, lol.
Fact of the matter is I'm enjoying having this debate with people, but I'm having a REALLY hard time having it with them when they get run off and tell me by PM that they won't come here to be belittled by others.. I totally understand their point of view.

Can this country function with all the anger that people infuse into politics? It really can't. We need Rich and Wade and Thunderer and Drizzt and every other American on board to do what Obama is talking about doing. Any President will fail if he can't build some kind of concesus. It involves listening and sometimes compromise! We talk about the possibility of Iraq descending into civil war, while we live in a state of perpetual 'cold' civil war here at home.. We wouldn't be a better nation without any American. If I'm honest with myself I'm not SURE on every single position.. Sometimes I wonder about things like abortion rights, things like (Thunderer so rightly put to me) 'government intrusion'. Like Rich, I'm a bit of a gun nut myself, and as a Democrat, I'm always sort voting against some Constitutional rights in support of others. So I'm glad that we are many voices to make me think about it. If you want to read something in one phrase that defines the real problems we are going through as a nation, check Jazzgeek's signature line.. And don't forget that even people who post videos you don't like, care very much about the direction this nation is going, they aren't your enemies..

I'm not trying to run you off from this conversation, I'd just hate to see you get 'banned' (or even worse, represent yourself poorly) because you couldn't take a deep breath and reread before you hit 'submit reply'..

 

[CassieK]

I have gone through and read every one of your post in this thread. You contradict yourself way to often and then lie by saying you have not attacked anyone but as I have quoted you several times you have. By slandering those who vote for McCain you are slandering each individual. In everyone of your post I have read you contradict yourself and then tell others they need to reconsider. You are forcing your believes on others. No one was belittling Obama from what I have read in this post which is the whole post. The links have never been stated as to weather they have been put on here just to down grade Obama. Did you ever think that maybe they are also on this site to show how sad it is that our country is doing this and not to get another person to vote for McCain. You have looked at everything very one sided and are very self conceded. You are also very disrespectful. There is always more than one to look at something and you have chosen to look at every thing as an attack on Obama. Someone correct me if I am wrong in thinking this. This is not very open minded of you at all. You are quick to judge before considering all the aspects of that post. It is also very arrogant of you to think that I have not watched the debates and been following this campaign. Granted there are certain issues on both sides that I was not really aware of until some info caught my attention but these issues also did not pertain to what was important to me. By stating that you have done something that you feel I have not you are not only judging me but also attack my integrity. I cannot stand people that are quick to judge without knowing all the facts and then thinking that they are better than others. You have no idea about any of our personal life there for you cannot make such bold statements as to make yourself appear better than anyone else. I also do not know anything about you, but this is asinine.

 

[CassieK]

Ricky I am not doing this to discuss politics and say that your decision is wrong. I am trying to point out to you that you need to be courteous, considerate, and open minded to others views. I will not argue politics with you but I will argue that you are treating other people very unfairly and are being very quick to judge ones beliefs.

 

[Rich Z]

Derogatory is pretending that those people in the Howard Stern video represent how all black people, or all Obama supporters percieve him. Rich Z posted both of those videos, and they both exuded a strong "Anti-Obama" sentiment. I wasn't being condescending at all, so think what you want. The truth is that I love this site, but if I'm forced to read someone elses opinion, without being able to express my own, than maybe this site isn't something I want to be a part of anyway. I love my cornsnakes, and I love Barack Obama, and I would love to be able to express myself, but if I'm going to have to worry about a ban, just because I don't agree with what he's doing when he's expressing himself, than maybe I should just post on another site. The fact is that this is a great "Cornsnake" site, but when it comes to being a fair Obama site it lacks tremendously. My history leads me to how I feel, and I won't let someone generalize, or characterize, Barack Obama, or an entire race of people. I've gotten very pleasent rep's from people, and though maybe some of what I say is recieved with a bitter taste, I find it unfair those videos are not held to the same standard. Who knows, maybe this whole topic is intimidating, but, Drizzt, your replies to me have been far more condescending than anything I've posted about anyone. It's all quote clips, and "you saids", I mean, maybe I just don't back down when people criticize Obama, but this whole thread begs for differences in opinion, so I find it surprising someone can't handle mine. Either way, if what I've said has been percieved as "too much", than maybe no-one should post anymore anti-Obama threads, because all it does is make me express my opinion, which is what I though this thread was about in the first place!.

Both of the videos I posted here along with the photo were either sent to me or posted on one or more of my other sites. I just don't have the interest in this political crap, nor free time, to go pursuing such stuff myself. So maybe you would better serve your role models by not jumping to conclusions about others when remarks are made about them.

Certainly you can express your opinion here, as long as you recognize the fact that others will have differing opinions, and your's carries no more weight then their's does. You just cannot express yourself in such a manner that is derogatory and belittling towards others that have those differing opinions without repercussions. If you continue to do so, then by you own choice, yes, you will have to worry about being banned from this site. I really don't care whether someone is pro or con Obama at all. But they will not ATTACK other members, what they post, and what their opinions are, on this site.

This site does not have to be FAIR to Obama or McCain, or anyone else running for public office. Basically anyone running for public office implicitly opens themselves up for public criticism. Neither do any of the members who participate here have any dictates about being "fair". That is not why this site exists, nor it's focus. But any member who gets way carried away in the emotional content of their posts towards other members, no matter what the subject matter, is subject to being removed from the picture if they fail to heed a warning about their behavior, no matter what their stance in any argument.

And personally, and for your own enlightenment, I just will not tolerate someone berating me on a site I own at all. If you don't like what I say, how I say it, or who I say it about, then you just have very VERY little choice in that particular matter HERE. I really don't like to ban anyone, but I have no hesitation whatsoever about doing so if I feel it needs to be done.

As for your threat to go make your own website, have at it, fella. Anyone can MAKE a site. But getting it to be successful is a whole different ball of wax. So go ahead and take your best shot at it, but just don't bet the farm on it being a success.

 

[Chip]

The fact is that this is a great "Cornsnake" site, but when it comes to being a fair Obama site it lacks tremendously.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm here because this is a great cornsnake site. I don't judge a reptile forum by how "fair an Obama" site it is.

 

[wade]

The average annual white persons income is around 50,000$ dollars, whereas the average annual black persons income is around 8,000$.

Ricky, you can't just make up facts. If you think this is true, please document it so we all can believe it.

...and my Aunt is black, and yet my whole family can attest that, growing up in a rural pre-dominantly white community, my Aunt did not have a boyfriend, nor did her friends parents allow her over for playdates and dinner as a child and teenager. My aunt is now 36 years old, so it's not ancient history, and what do you think became of those children who were told it was wrong to associate with her?. They have jobs, businesses, and children,

I live in rural America. I live in an area that is predominantly one religion. One that I don't subscribe to. I am a very small minority here. My daughter had a very limited number of boys to date because of her parents religion. My children were not allowed to play with certain children and those children were not allowed to come to our house. We had a baby sitter who told our kids that their parents were going to hell because they went to the wrong church. I have had people walk out of my office when they learned that I don't belong to "the church".

God, I'm soooo picked on. Where is my government aid to help run MY business? Where are the scholarships to put MY kids through school? Why do I have to compete with those bad bad people who did my family wrong?

Rickey, you are without a doubt the most racist person I have encountered on this forum. I have never seen anyone with your kind of tunnel vision. You scare me.

 

[Ricky87]

First off, Rich, I do think it's fair that these associations exist for the betternment of black society. Their is so much racism that their has to be some blatant "for black people only" support systems to counteract. As far as your affirmative action comments, yes I do think it is unfair that their are cases of better qualified white people who don't get the job, because of affirmative action, but if their wasn't racism, sexism, and classism to begin with their would be no need for it in the first place. Just this weekend I heard of a former classmate of mine, who I know to be racist, with a police badge on his chest. His father is also racist, and the local police station more than likely has a fair bit of awareness towards that. We all know what that means. Thats why it's important that affirmative action exists, because jobs like law enforcement would otherwise be exclusively white. As asking do I have prejudices, I can openly and honestly say no I don't. I respect all people equally, and I don't discriminate one bit. If thats hard to believe for you than that speaks more to society than it does to me. In my personal life I make sure to speak out every single time someone says something racist, sexist, or just plain hateful, and I have a ton of people who can attest to that, but thats besides the point. All I can say is that I've heard the "N" word over a thousand times in my lifetime, and every time I've said enough, and I have never stopped saying that. Sometimes I even get the response of "what do you care, your white?", like it should never offend me. Well guess what, it does offend me. To the core it offends me. Every time I hear it I think about the hatred my aunt recieves, and the amazing people, such as Martin Luther King and Tupac Shakur, who gave their lives up so that their brothers and sisters could find peace. One thing I've never heard, and this is no exaggeration, is another white person stand up and say thats wrong. Do I think that means I'm the only person, who is white, who cares about racism?. No!, I know that their are many other people who care very strongly, but they are outnumbered 10,000 times over. That doesn't mean that all those who don't speak out are racist, but all it takes for racism to exist is good people who stand aside and do nothing. That Howard Stern video mirrors the real feelings of many americans that Barack Obama is popular, because he is black, which is the biggest lie ever told. Where were people when Jesse Jackson ran, or when Al Sharpton ran?. People only say that to dis-credit the reasoning for Obama supporters, by mis-placing their true motives. Not all people vote Obama for his policies, some just vote for him, because they have faith in his honesty and purity. People love how strong he is, and that he represents change. Not physically, but spiritually. To some he represents freedom and equality, but to others he represents fear and intimidation. Maybe you personally don't like Obama, but please do not perpetuate peoples fears with these videos. He isn't to blame for the economic crisis, and he isn't going to sell the country to terrorists, because he wants a new nation. I'm not saying that's how you view him, but those videos do perpetuate those beliefs. As far as what you said, Tom E, about us all needing to be on the same page, I agree completely. If I had a spare 25$ to become a contributing member so I could edit my first few post I would, but I don't. Maybe people believe I am arrogant and ignorant, but I can promise you from the bottom of my heart I am not. I've already tried to elaborate how I feel, but like usual people tend to focus on the negative. If I felt in anyway that people were open to discussing politics in a civil manner, I would have approached this thread differently. I don't like conflict, and I know people won't be won over to Obama through conflict. My intent was never to target anybody, because they don't like Obamas politics, my intent was to open people to the fact that he is an honest human being. If I came across to anyone as anything less than open-minded I apoligize. Really, I do, but on the same hand I keep getting people who selectively quote, and para-phrase, everything I say to create a false idea of who I am as a person. Maybe it's too late to change that, but I can't help it. Those videos really bothered me, thats all I can say. If someone wants to present honest reasons for why they like McCain, or don't like Obama, I will read with an open mind, and I hope we can all be civil from this point on!.

 

[Celtic21]

Howdy y'all!. im a bit new to the site, so I dont know if this is a good thread, but I just want to say GO OBAMA!. BTW, I read these two posts and from the sounds of it wade really has a bad idea of Ricky87. his post was pretty harsh and I thought Rickys was very well spoken. just my opinion though.

 

[wade]

This thread is 153 posts long. Maybe you should read more than 2 posts before you start forming opinions.

 

[Chip]

This thread is 153 posts long. Maybe you should read more than 2 posts before you start forming opinions.

Agreed.

 

[Rich Z]

Damn.... I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night.....

 

[Chip]

Oh, SNAP!

 

[michael couture]

I think the admin should just delete this thread and start fresh. Somewhere this got carried away, and now it's kind of beyond repair. I really think Tom E has done the best job mediating, and other than that nobody is right.
We could carry this conversation on all day about how you feel "blacks are a different branch of the human race", but there will be no converts. The same goes for trying to get people who agree with that to cross over to a complete social awareness. Let's compare policies and not try to impliment our own prejudices, otherwise this is bound to happen again.
I personally think the video was absolute garbage, so as the moderator who posted it I think you can't condemn the reactions to it. On the other hand just because people may not be as socially concious as others, we can't make personal attacks. Everybody here is as guilty as the next, because we've all contributed to forcing our opinions as a reflection of the candidates. Neither Obama or Mcain were reflected properly in this debate, or in the posted videos. Yet everybody thinks they are right, and the other is wrong. All I know is that Obama is a charismatic, intelligent, and incredible leader. And with the election being 19 days away, and a long reach for Mcain, the heavy weapons are coming out. There has been no "race card" pulled, and if Obama should win (looks likely from the polls), we will all have to supprt him. These are economically difficult times and we have yet to get a clear plan layed out in Iraq, so it will take all of us to sail this ship in the right direction. In otherwords, cast your vote and not your judgements. If anybody here really knew that much about race or politics, they would moderate a different site.
This is cornsnake.com forums, so let's not get too carried away with politics and prejudice. This has been a 95% pleasure to be a part of this forum, but nobody has proven they can handle some of these discussions in a positive manner. So rather than beating this to death, let's just drop it. We'll see on the 4th who will be our next president. If anyone watched the debate last night it should have solitified who shall win.
Obama has statistically won in every debate, last night was the largest margin. 80% of those polled thought Mcain has run more of an attack campaign, and were unpleased with his negative attitude last night. If the election was held today Obama would win with 277 electoral votes, while Mcain has only 174. 87 votes are still up for grabs, but even with every one of those votes Mcain will have to struggle to win.
I just thought I would post some facts seeing there are so little here. Instead of wasting time trying to convert the non-believers, I thought the high ground would be statistical proof. Hate it or love it these facts are correct, and I'm done worrying about reasons why people dislike Obama. This is an uphill battle for Mcain, and I'm no longer worried about people who dislike my opinions voting Mcain. It will take much more than that for Mcain to win, and frankly I'm very happy.
There no personal attacks, and I still get my point across. Rather than having a meaningless debate, I will just take the next few weeks to have peace and ignore the last ditch attempts to degrade Obama. He will likely win and that's factual, so it's no longer just my opinion. I respect all of you Mcain supporters who had hope in his leadership, because I can't bash anyone that supports him out of thinking it will bring prosperity. As for the attack ads, they have done nothing but detract from the real issues and the outcome will be seen on the 4th.

Good luck, and GO OBAMA!!!

 

[Chip]

Did you post as Ricky and Celtic, pretending to be someone else?

 

[Drizzt80]

More quoty quote quotes for ya Rickster . . .

How come people get so mis-leading when it comes to showing the facts about Obama?

Good question. I'm still waiting for you to show your source for the White vs. Black yearly income!

Maybe I should just create a new profile and lie about my age next time!.

Howdy y'all!. . . I thought Rickys was very well spoken.

Dang! Rich already caught that while I was searching and copy/pasting quotes. :cheers:

Got some great stuff for ya ricky/micheal/celtic. It works like a charm!

:roflmao:
D80