This has got to end

I'm sure some of you have heard of the incident at Global Captive Breeders where around 600 reptiles and 18,400 rodents were abused and all had to be euthanized. I'm not going to lie, when I heard of this I didn't believe it at first because of how outrageous the number of abused were claimed. But after listening to interviews with witnesses that were present during the inspection and numerous articles from different sources, I was appalled by how this could have happened and why someone would do this to their animals. PETA was the ones who were the main organization who were behind the raid.

Here are some articles

http://lakeelsinore-wildomar.patch....ays-of-ongoing-investigation-in-lake-elsinore

http://ranchosantamargarita.patch.c...re-in-us-history-ends-with-massive-euthanasia

http://www.peta2.com/campaigns/hell...ture&utm_source=peta2 E-Mail&utm_medium=Alert

PETA's article (since they were involved I should include their article)
http://www.peta2.com/campaigns/hell...ture&utm_source=peta2 E-Mail&utm_medium=Alert

Video PETA shot in the facility (Warning Graphic)


Interviews with PETA and a Vet who went to the scene
http://www.herpnation.com/audio/hn-special-report-global-captive-breeders-investigation/

I feel as a community that we can do better than this. While it was a member of the herp community who informed PETA, I think the whistle could and should have been blown sooner (I wish it was us who were being the raid, not PETA). Animals don't get like that overnight. I just hope in the future we as a community will do better to prevent/stop this kind of cruelty.

I'm guilty just as everyone, I don't stop to think when buying a snake if the facility it was kept in was adequate and its basic needs were met. Well, that is going to change.

Do I think this is what most breeders are like? No, but I do feel us as a community we need to weed out the ones that are, because not only are animals being neglected and abused, but this hurts our industry/hobby as a whole.

What does everyone else think?

There's a problem here...
While it is beyond obvious that the animals suffered from neglect, PETA could have easily come to my home... and start shooting just a second prior to me cleaning a cage, and claim I am neglecting the animal.

Some people feed live... that's how the hobby started and some people still keep at it... some people must, because of snakes that refuse to eat F/T.

Thing is, I can pretty much, with the right music and moment, turn every breeder into a "cruel neglecting keeper".

So... as long as I don't have the facts infront of me, I prefer to hold my tongue.

The media is all about sensationalism, and usually it's on people's expanse.

Kokopelli said:

There's a problem here...
While it is beyond obvious that the animals suffered from neglect, PETA could have easily come to my home... and start shooting just a second prior to me cleaning a cage, and claim I am neglecting the animal.

Some people feed live... that's how the hobby started and some people still keep at it... some people must, because of snakes that refuse to eat F/T.

Thing is, I can pretty much, with the right music and moment, turn every breeder into a "cruel neglecting keeper".

So... as long as I don't have the facts infront of me, I prefer to hold my tongue.

The media is all about sensationalism, and usually it's on people's expanse.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to make PETA the hero, but since they were involved in the inspection I had to involve them (in all honesty I wish they were not involved). I did provide other sources that were not from PETA. Nor am I condemning feeding live.

The thing that bothers me about such raids is that inevitably, all the animals end up dead. I KNOW abuse and neglect happens-but when a raid on an "animal hoarder" ends up with hundreds of cats killed, or a "puppy mill" leads to many, many breeding dogs being put down, or in this case, a raid on a breeder ends up with hundreds of snakes and thousands of feeders killed, I have to wonder how much effort was spent to truly make sure the animals were not able to be rehabilitated. Especially in the case of snakes, where they can go months without feeding.

It just seems like PETA goes for the big, splashy "See, keeping animals is wrong" cases-but then throws the actual animals under the bus for the sake of a big media frenzy. And I notice in this case, they focused on the mice, not the snakes.

It's kind of like the whole python ban thing-which is leading to wholesale, authorized slaughter of burms, and I'm guessing, any snake in the Everglades which happens to stick it's head out, even if it's much, much smaller than a burm and is completely native. Apparently PETA isn't at all concerned about killing animals simply because they're in the wrong place.

--Donna

Yeah, I saw this too. I originally assumed that they were sensationalizing it, but there are pictures of really sick snakes and super overcrowded conditions/dead animals for the feeders. A lot of the stuff they spoke out against, like "snakes kept in small, plastic boxes with no exposure to light", were not abuse, but the norm. But there were some things that were definitely abuse--denial of vet care, sick animals, drowned animals.

AlliDraggy: Yeah, why were so many animals killed??? I mean, I know that PETA loves to kill abandoned animals (they highly "pro-kill" shelters), so in their mind killing everything is a good idea, but SO many of those animals could've been saved. I would've taken a snake from there, after it's been quarantined for awhile! 600 dead snakes is just unacceptable, not to mention 18000 dead rats! I used to own rats as pets--they are great animals, and there's a huge community that would gladly take in thousands of those rats. Stupid PETA.

Would have rather seen the local authorities informed, and not PETA.

Kokopelli said:

Thing is, I can pretty much, with the right music and moment, turn every breeder into a "cruel neglecting keeper".

So... as long as I don't have the facts infront of me, I prefer to hold my tongue.

The media is all about sensationalism, and usually it's on people's expanse.

Click to expand...

Quoted for truth. Obvious sad case here, but the story you get will never be accurate as long as its coming through media sources.

I learned this by being on the inside of a few stories over the years that the media mutated. Was really eye opening, and disgusting, the first time I saw just how much creative license they take.

That whole thing just pisses me off... Not all breeders are like that .but the ones that are need to go through the same neglect as there animals go through

wow, i'm not going to get into any of debate on this, as I hate PITA to begin with.

BUT that video was just HORRIBLE, I had to stop it half way through.. to much my heart to take. I can't stand that animals are being treated like that, this truly does need to stop!

just my small 2 cents,

You know, I'm wondering aloud...
How do we know if this is how the animals looked when the raid occurred?
It is quite possible that said breeder was forced to leave his facility due to legal actions for his "abuse"- and because of the time that passed between then and when the video was shot, the animals look as they do.

Is it within the realm of possibility? it is.

I have seen it myself- it is -so- easy to massacre a person's reputation with just a few cheap tricks... don't swallow the bait that easily, demand to see the facts.

He would have had to have been gone for a real long time. What snake dies even after going an entire month without food? And those growths on the rats don't happen over night either.

I take everything that PETA does, and says, as a lie. They are scum as far as I am concerned, and unless the person who turned this place in, actually comes on here and verifies this stuff, and that they are not part of PETA (because they do whatever they can to put people in areas, and start making things look horrible), only then will I believe what was actually found.

The media is also notorious for making things out to be much worse than it really is, and reporting things before they get the facts, and even then, ignoring the facts, because they want the ratings.... <which is one reason I refuse to watch the news.

What irritates me most, that even though this happens ALL THE TIME with dogs and cats- but dogs and cats are not going to be banned for something like this. A bill to ban reptiles will probably pop up quickly again because of this.

I believe this particular case to be true, as far as how bad the animals were.
I recall a thread on another forum talking about this particular breeder, & how bad the animals were at a recent expo. They're talking about how to set up some sort of community policing, so that we, as a community can call people like these out, & deal with them, for the sake of the animals.

This video looks horrible. But was that after they had been "confiscated?"

I watched PeTA close down an exotic pet shop a few years back. They found NO WATER IN SOME OF THE REPTILE ENCLOSURES!!! NOT EVEN BOWLS THAT WERE NOW EMPTY!!! Of course; they turned out to be beardies, tortoises and the like that not only wont drink standing water, but can not have it in their enclosure. They also talked about all the dead animals in the freezer. Most were feeder rodents. So the county seized the guy's animals, most died before his name was cleared and his animals could be returned. Those that made it back alive were pitiful. He closed up shop and is in law enforcement now. Call it a strawman argument, but I do not believe a word PeTA says until I have evidence from a real source. I won't even believe my own eyes if it is their video.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike PETA & I hate that they're involved in this case. I wish PETA would go away, along with HSUS.

I don't doubt that there may be some misrepresentation on PETA's part, but this particular case there have been other people who have witnessed his animals in poor condition.

pheonix said:

He would have had to have been gone for a real long time. What snake dies even after going an entire month without food? And those growths on the rats don't happen over night either.

Click to expand...

Do you know for a fact that all of the shots were taken in the same facility?
It's not a big deal to add shots from all over the place in order to make someone look bad.

Take it with a pinch of salt people, PETA and the like are stopping at nothing to sensationalize and promote their cruel campaign.

I won't look at the pictures or watch the video.
My take on this is that PETA wants to ban pet ownership completely, and they have no problem killing healthy dogs and cats, we already know this.
Their job is to make every "abuse" case look as bad as possible. Maybe those animals were in bad shape when they were seized, maybe not. But I am not going to believe a word of what is said. I wasn't there.

I also have rats as pets (another reason I couldn't look at the video.....), and one of my girls developed a tumor literally overnight. Doubled in size in less than 3 days. I had her to a vet within the week, but because of how it was surgery was not possible. She passed away about 6 weeks later, and played right up until the day before she died.
My rats get handled and come out to play on the sofa every day, no way would that have been growing unnoticed.

To be honest I still wouldn't trust anything PETA put down. For an example, a good friend of mine was a breeder of feeder rats and mice. I occasionally ran down there on my own if he wasn't home to get my own and on occasion I'd find that a rat that got loose had chewed through a water line, drowing 4 or 5 pans of rats. If PETA or anyone else had shown up right then, they would have said there was abuse and horrible conditions. Wasn't so. It happened and it does happen. Rats are incredibly destructive. They will destroy anything they can get their teeth on. My friend certainly cared about the animals if for no other reason, a drowned rat was loss of income! Breeder rats develop tumors all the time. We generally culled them when we found them, but they do grow quickly. Breeder rats are not pets. I agree that all breeders need to keep their animals in good condition, but sheer numbers will say that there will be a number of deaths as well as sick animals that come in from import (if they are large scale importers). That's reality.