• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

A blow I'm not sure I can recover from

Yikes, I wouldn't trust any animal from IBD parents. I wouldn't even trust a colubrid that was exposed to IBD because there isn't enough known about the disease to know if they would be the "Typhoid Mary's" of the snake world...passing the disease without showing symptoms. I have a feeling that most snakes are carriers of the crypto sporidium but it lays dormant only to show itself when the animal is weakened or stressed. Pregnancy definitely counts as stress. I hope this all resolves for you without further loss of any animals. She was truly a stunning example of her kind and I'm so very sorry that you lost her.
 
Alright, update time.

I got some good and some bad news.

The good news are that my female Blood Boa who is incredibly important to be is free of Crypto.

The bad news is that the Albino is Crypto positive, thus adding another potential animal to the testing.

I will continue testing my collection until the Crypto hosts are all located, isolated and given to people who wish to care for a single snake or zoo's where there aren't other non-sick reptiles.

Here are a couple of things about the Parasite I could not locate in written literature:

1- It is a parasite that attacks the digestion system, therefore breeding will not necessarily spread the infection but the close proximity is certainly still dangerous. Babies are not automatically infected at birth from an infected female either- they can get infected during birth though.

2- There is a disagreement as to whether or not Cryptosporidium Parvum(which can affect mice, mammals and so on) can cause harm to snakes. The Vet who is conducting the tests told me that as far as she saw and knows, Parvum causes harm to all animals and when she did saw Crypto in snakes, she usually saw both Cryptosporidium Parvum and Cryptosporidium Serpentis. It is believed that

3- It is held that Crypto Occysts will not survive a freezing- another reason to feed F/T.

4- Adult snakes are usually not succumbed to Crypto- but they can be sub-clinical carriers for their entire lives.

More info will be posted when it's available I guess...
 
Oren, I really want to thank you for posting this info. Crypto is common in a lot of geckos and I strive to have immaculate conditions to avoid any possible break out. I also donate to the "Kill Crypto" project, hosted by good friend of mine Pat Kline. Please keep me updated with what your learning. You are a real trooper and my heart goes out to you, brother.
 
Kokopelli said:
The good news are that my female Blood Boa who is incredibly important to be is free of Crypto.
Click to expand...

This is great news! Will just have to test her a couple more times.

Kokopelli said:
The bad news is that the Albino is Crypto positive, thus adding another potential animal to the testing.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry to hear (see) this.:(

Kokopelli said:
Babies are not automatically infected at birth from an infected female either- they can get infected during birth though.
Click to expand...

This is true. It is one of the reasons that a hatchling should be removed, and placed in its own container, as soon as it leaves the egg (where, hopefully, it has missed any possible contamination from the exterior of its own egg). I would imagine the same holds true for babies of live bearing snakes (in an attempt to avoid possible contamination, if there hasn't been any already, from the mother &/or her feces, etc.).

Kokopelli said:
4- Adult snakes are usually not succumbed to Crypto- but they can be sub-clinical carriers for their entire lives.
Click to expand...

Hopefully, people do not take too much comfort, in this, because adult snakes can, indeed, succumb to Crypto. Any snake (with re. to age) can be sub-clinical carriers.
 
Your female was an adult so it's obvious the adults can succumb to crypto. As far as boas though, they are live bearers and as such have no egg to protect the baby from the disease...just a soft sack that they leave immediately.
 
Oren, This really shows how great of a breeder you are. To test your whole collection in search of a disease that they could carry and not show... I am proud to call you friend, and know that you are more honorable than others I have seen in the past.

I am glad to hear that your blood is free of the parasite, but I am sad to hear that your albino has it... I hope you are able to find pet homes for all of your animals that have the parasite. In fact I hope that no more of your animals are carriers.
 
Carinata said:
Oren, I really want to thank you for posting this info. Crypto is common in a lot of geckos and I strive to have immaculate conditions to avoid any possible break out. I also donate to the "Kill Crypto" project, hosted by good friend of mine Pat Kline. Please keep me updated with what your learning. You are a real trooper and my heart goes out to you, brother.
Click to expand...

Thank you,
Could you please consult with Pat about a medicine called HaloCure and whether or not it was tested on reptiles?
She explains that it yielded great results in kettle- it is a preventative measure rather than a cure for Crypto, but it may be a start.

MegF. said:
Your female was an adult so it's obvious the adults can succumb to crypto. As far as boas though, they are live bearers and as such have no egg to protect the baby from the disease...just a soft sack that they leave immediately.
Click to expand...

Meg, I am sorry if I come off edgy but you really state things as facts without first asking- Phoenix was a sub adult, not an adult female. Due to unexpected circumstances she was with another female and a male- I thought she was a male at the time. Because she was suddenly courted, began swelling a bit and refused a meal, I suspected she was becoming gravid, which is why I preferred to allow her to breed- a gestation with infertile ova on Boas is insanely difficult as slugs are sticky and very difficult to pass... I did what I could to minimize the risk for Phoenix.

Fact of the matter is, she was simply too young. Regardless, I did state usually- gestation takes allot from a female Boa and the immune system can definitely be compromised.

On the second note... it doesn't really matter if the snake leaves the egg which is covered is Occysts or the sack... the parasite cannot penetrate either- the contact is made once the hatchling/neonate is out.
 
Outcast said:
Oren, This really shows how great of a breeder you are. To test your whole collection in search of a disease that they could carry and not show... I am proud to call you friend, and know that you are more honorable than others I have seen in the past.

I am glad to hear that your blood is free of the parasite, but I am sad to hear that your albino has it... I hope you are able to find pet homes for all of your animals that have the parasite. In fact I hope that no more of your animals are carriers.
Click to expand...

Thanks man, it is much appreciated.
I am not testing the entire collection exactly- I am working in a chain-reaction sort of work-flow.
What I mean is, I am testing 4 animals that have been in direct contact with Phoenix- the female blood was not in contact and indeed proved to be clean of Crypto(she had a huge meal and had there been Crypto in the stool I sent, it would have come up in the test clearly. Amusingly enough, the Albino's stool was small and yup, sure enough, Crypto positive).

Now that I know that the Albino is also Crypto positive, I will be testing another female who was in contact with him and so on- every animal needs to be tested 3 times to be sure that it's Crypto free.

So I have a definite infected animals+ 4 that will be tested 3 times each. Beyond that, I will sample test a few others, one test per, just to make sure that it is as contained and it currently seems.

That's the luck with Crypto, you can diagnose it without killing the animal.
 
Either way. You are doing more than others that I have seen. I am glad to see you trying to figure out which ones have Crypto. I am sure that it really means a lot to future customers as well.
 
Thank you,
The main purpose is to indeed ensure that animals I produce are Crypto-free in order to avoid spreading the parasite, and more than anything else, raise the awareness.
The author of "Understanding Reptile Parasites" suspects that around 20-30% of the captive population of Leopard Geckos are actually Crypto positive... that's insane, and it is essential to be aware and conduct tests.
 
Originally misread the age on her as 3 not 2. If she was fed weekly though she was at a size that she was mature enough to breed. I know they can breed at too small a size (one of the biggest reasons I don't co-habitate....) but if she was completely immature, no male would have been interested in her at all. Breeders feed and breed at 2 quite often and that puts her in the adult category regardless of age. I am like you though, I consider a 2 year old to be a sub adult. but then my snakes only eat once or twice a month so they mature more slowly anyway. I rarely breed anything before it's 5 years old these days.
 
MegF. said:
Originally misread the age on her as 3 not 2. If she was fed weekly though she was at a size that she was mature enough to breed. I know they can breed at too small a size (one of the biggest reasons I don't co-habitate....) but if she was completely immature, no male would have been interested in her at all. Breeders feed and breed at 2 quite often and that puts her in the adult category regardless of age. I am like you though, I consider a 2 year old to be a sub adult. but then my snakes only eat once or twice a month so they mature more slowly anyway. I rarely breed anything before it's 5 years old these days.
Click to expand...

Yeah well tell that to the female Boa whom an adult male copulated when she was 6 months old :p. It was basically rape, I suspect, but it happened at a friend's place. He placed them together since he was cleaning a tub and tada- 5 minutes is all it took. It was scent he probably whiffed from nearby females and he took it out on the poor girl... thankfully no harm was done.

Also, technically speaking, a 13 year old girl can have a child... that doesn't mean it's the best course of action or biologically optimal. She did indeed release pheromones, I am sure, but she wasn't at the perfect age to start breeding I'm afraid.
Regardless of age though, gestation in Boas is a big deal... it is long and very demanding on the Dame- it is common for them to get RI after being gravid for instance.
 
Oh I"m absolutely certain that it's not good for them...same as powerfeeding so that you can. Rape happens....you bet...however she still wasn't mature enough to produce young in the case of the 6 month old. I can tell you for certain that a whole mess of 14 year old girls are having babies around here....crazy but true! I don't put any snakes together unless I intend to breed them...period....cleaning or otherwise. Just safer that way as you can see :)
 
I thought I'd update.
Tomorrow I will be sending out a new sample, an adult T+ that was with Phoenix prior to her death. I hope that other Boas poop as well by tomorrow.

Beyond that, it seems that Crypto Occysts are resilient to bleach... so much so that it's ineffective completely.

Ammonia at 5% concentration of Formalin at 10% are the only ways to go- and they are horribly toxic.

However, using steam cleaning at 45-60 degrees(c) can eliminate them... so I purchased a steam gun.
I am also using single use gloves for every single snake... and will continue to do so until I have everything under control.
 
Yeah, crypto is amazingly resistant to almost anything....due to the shell that oocyst's are coated in. Heat sterilization I've heard is the only way and perhaps freezing but I suspect it would have to be something like a deep freezer with long time freezing to do it.
 
MegF. said:
Yeah, crypto is amazingly resistant to almost anything....due to the shell that oocyst's are coated in. Heat sterilization I've heard is the only way and perhaps freezing but I suspect it would have to be something like a deep freezer with long time freezing to do it.
Click to expand...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00052-0062.pdf

There's a table with resaults on freezing... after 775 hours of being below -22 degrees C, 2% of the Occysts were still active.
 
Oren, I haven't been here for a while, and just read this thread. I'm so sorry for you and your girl! I hope everything proceeds in the best possible way, although good is not really a word you can use for this situation.
thinking of you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top