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A blow I'm not sure I can recover from

this is the first time ive heard of crypto and i looked it up and it says its a waterboarne parisite that can attack both humans and animals dont mean to scare ya but i figured u might want to know if u dont know already good luck to u on gettin the matter under control and again im so sorry for ur baby gurl
 
Yeah, that's why looking up in the internet is not always the best way to go about things.
Cryptosporidium lists around 11 different sub-species, and harm to humans was not caused by Cryptosporidium Serpentis. It also usually seriously harms only immune deficient humans.
 
Pretty much what I thought about the freezing...wasn't sure on it but I was sure that most conventional cleaners do nothing to it. You've got to admire an organism that could probably survive in space!
 
Another result round...
A CA T+ that was with Phoenix prior to her death.
The results, amazingly enough, were NEGATIVE for Crypto!!!

This is a first out of 3 consequent tests so I am cautious with my happiness but still... that's wonderful news to me.
 
That is VERY awesome!! Might also show something for research. Is it necessarily true that it is completely passed from snake to snake...or does a snake perhaps show symptomatically because of stress and then die from it? If all 3 tests come back negative then perhaps most snakes harbor the spore, but never show symptoms.
 
MegF. said:
That is VERY awesome!! Might also show something for research. Is it necessarily true that it is completely passed from snake to snake...or does a snake perhaps show symptomatically because of stress and then die from it? If all 3 tests come back negative then perhaps most snakes harbor the spore, but never show symptoms.
Click to expand...

It is passed from snake to snake... infecting another however is not -that- easy- the transmission is done fecal-orally.

Had spores been passed in the stool sample, it would have shown. The Doctor who tests the samples explains that she gathers intestinal tissue from the stool sample and looks for Crypto in any stage.

This doesn't mean though that there isn't a very large population of snakes in captivity who are Crypto carriers... I can't stress enough the importance of conducting stool testing for any incoming animal.

My current regiment is to test every animal that came in contact with a Crypto positive animal three times, and test once every animal in my collection.

It will probably take around 3 months, but I will not stop until I know all is well.
 
Oren, that's effing fantadtic news buddy!!!! I've been thinking about you situation a ton and I can't imagine what it's like. Dude, your a trooper and if I was in your shoes I don't think I would have known how to handle this. I was talking to a friend of mine, Elliot, and he makes this anti-parasitic called reptaid, so far no vet will use it in crypto trials, but there are signs that it does kill Crypto, in geckos and chameleons. If you would like, Oren, I'll hook you up with all his info and see if her can help you out.
 
Carinata said:
Oren, that's effing fantadtic news buddy!!!! I've been thinking about you situation a ton and I can't imagine what it's like. Dude, your a trooper and if I was in your shoes I don't think I would have known how to handle this. I was talking to a friend of mine, Elliot, and he makes this anti-parasitic called reptaid, so far no vet will use it in crypto trials, but there are signs that it does kill Crypto, in geckos and chameleons. If you would like, Oren, I'll hook you up with all his info and see if her can help you out.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
The day ends in a rather sour note...
Solaris, my oldest Boa, is infected... and she's gravid to boot... *yay*.
I had to euthanize the Albino I had, but I can't do it to her... I just can't.
I am moving her into the living room away from the other snakes... she's in perfect health, but is a carrier.

I can't trust someone else to isolate her as she should be isolated... so she will live the rest of her days with me. I will only handle and touch her with gloves(which will be cast out immediately).
As for the babies... I hope to be able to save at least some... it doesn't automatically pass on, so I can test the babies and see how to continue from there... granted, she may die by the time she gives birth(which should be around a month hence), but I just -can't- bring myself to euthanize her.

I may end up changing my mind because there are other snakes I must be responsible for but... if I keep her isolated enough, if I practice the high hygene regiment I am following right now, she may be alright.

Who knows, maybe I will try and use medications on her(with a certified vet being a part of the effort).

It's an insane blow, though I saw no real way around it since Solaris was indeed exposed to several suspected and proven Crypto carriers.

I wish I was in the USA... I don't see how I can receive the medication over to Israel... Will he be willing to tell me how to prepare it?(if possible).
 
I hope it works out for you Oren. If it does work. maybe your case will be one used to teach Vet techs alternate ways of treating for Crypto?
 
sourcandyg13 said:
this is the first time ive heard of crypto and i looked it up and it says its a waterboarne parisite that can attack both humans and animals dont mean to scare ya but i figured u might want to know if u dont know already good luck to u on gettin the matter under control and again im so sorry for ur baby gurl
Click to expand...

There are several different types of Crypto.
The one that affects snakes (and, I think can affect Chameleons & tortoises as well) is Cryptosporidium serpentis. Also, the Leopard Gecko & some other geckos that hail from Madagascar, while not affected by Cryptosporidium serpentis, can be carriers.
Cryptosporidium serpentis is not transmissible to humans nor any other critters.

That said, rodents can carry Cryptosporidium parvum. Cryptosporidium parvum just passes through a snake's digestive tract without causing harm. However, it is Cryptosporidium parvum (unlike Cryptosporidium serpentis) that is, or can be, a health risk to humans.
 
MegF. said:
Pretty much what I thought about the freezing...wasn't sure on it but I was sure that most conventional cleaners do nothing to it. You've got to admire an organism that could probably survive in space!
Click to expand...

I have not looked at Oren's link but ...
Yep, freezing is not reliable since it can leave viable oocysts. Even if only 1% is left, it is enough to infect in some way, somehow.

The following are supposed to be effective ways to kill crypto:
- Hydrogen Peroxide, for a very minimum of 10 minutes, at room temp.
- Ammonia and formal saline solution, for 18 hours, at 40° Fahrenheit (there could be another method, by using ammonia, as well).
- Moist heat, for 5 to 10 minutes, at between 113° and 140° Fahrenheit.
 
MegF. said:
That is VERY awesome!! Might also show something for research. Is it necessarily true that it is completely passed from snake to snake...or does a snake perhaps show symptomatically because of stress and then die from it? If all 3 tests come back negative then perhaps most snakes harbor the spore, but never show symptoms.
Click to expand...

It is true that snakes can harbor/carry Crypto without succumbing to it. Then, some factors (yes, it is believed that stress is just one factor) could allow Crypto to quickly rise, in amount, due to a weakened immune system. Thus, wreaking havoc upon the snake. Which, of course, causes the snake to succumb to it.
However... No, not all snakes are carriers of (or "harboring") Crypto. Studies have shown Crypto free snakes.

I believe that Crypto exists in a fair number of snakes, in captivity, but, still, that there are also many that are crypto free. However, with the careless actions (&/or perhaps their belief that "it can't happen to me") of keepers, Crypto can/will continue to rise. After all, we know that many owners/keepers do not keep a strict policy of using disposable gloves &/or or washing hands between snakes, or having each snake with its own fecal (&/or dirty substrate) scooping utensil assigned to it, or quarantine, etc.

BTW Quarantining snakes is only effective, against crypto, ~if~ a snake shows clinical signs during that time (since snakes, that carry Crypto, can show symptoms <or succumb to it> either very quickly <within months> or it could take years) &/or if the snake is tested during the quarantine period.

Kokopelli said:
It is passed from snake to snake... infecting another however is not -that- easy- the transmission is done fecal-orally.
Click to expand...

Mode of transmission is by direct contact with infected fecal matter, infected objects, or (depending) an infected animal. Of course, a snake can keep re-infecting itself with its own fecal matter, etc., too.
So, while it is not as easy to transmit, as some other things (i.e. virus, airborne, etc.), it is, or can be, made easier by keepers who are "lenient" with their husbandry (feeding, cleaning, handling, etc.).
 
Kokopelli said:
The day ends in a rather sour note...
Solaris, my oldest Boa, is infected... and she's gravid to boot... *yay*.
I had to euthanize the Albino I had, but I can't do it to her... I just can't.
I am moving her into the living room away from the other snakes... she's in perfect health, but is a carrier.
Click to expand...

Wow, I am so sorry to hear about Solaris. I know how hard it must be for you and can understand how you'd not want to euthanize her.
Since she is gravid, I am keeping prayers that you can get some Crypto free babies.
 
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