Airport Security - Too much?

[DaGiant]

I don't have to worry about being
searched/scanned/inconvenienced by TSA..
I don't fly!

 

[wstphal]

I did not take offense, so no problem. I have actually found that by talking about what I have done, instead of it building up inside me it helps me release little by little, and I am a little more social.
I completely understand the SPR scenario, I had been going good for roughly 3 months until my geography professor showed us a slide show of the war in the middle east, and it gave me bad flashbacks and sent me on a downward spiral. Since then though I have been making progress back up the ladder. Hopefully I can make it to a reptile show one day and work through my groups of people problems.

Well, if you ever need to talk, PM me & I'll give you my cell #, OK? That's what friends are for. I was working in an Emergency Department the month SPR came out, and we had all these elderly men with chest pain, hyperventilating and generally freaking out, and I got to talk to them, and I seemed to help a little, maybe because I had heard my dad work thru his stories when he had had one too many beers. He, too, served in WWII in Europe. He didn't see (much) combat, but was involved in part of one. He was supposed to be safe behind the lines as a physician, but the lines MOVED.

You will be able to go to a reptile show again. Start with a small show, go really really early, with a dealer so you can help set up & see the room BEFORE it fills up, then leave before it gets crowded. That's how people with a pure phobia of crowds start off. Work up from there as you can tolerate it, and we'll see you in Daytona or some other big show in a few years.

Once again, thank you for serving, from the bottom of my heart. <tearful> I wish I could convey just how much I mean that.

Edit: a certain type of medication, called a beta-blocker, can reduce the physical symptoms & allow people with phobias to push the boundaries a little without having racing heart, sweating palms, etc. I don't know if that's something your doctor thinks would help you, though. I can tell you they are NOT TRANQUILIZERS. They are not addictive, they don't make you loopy, or sleepy. They block some of the adrenaline receptors in your body so those receptors can't trigger the reactions.

 

[rexracer]

I think they have gone too far. I don't want some perv making $12 an hour gawking at my daughter on a scan, or feeling her up. There is no such thing as safety, it's an illusion. The fact is, statistically you would be safer getting on a plane with just a metal detector than driving to work in the morning.
I haven't forgotten 9-11, but that will never happen again. Nobody thought terrorists would use a plane as a weapon. I don't think anyone would be able to successfully take over a plane again. Passengers wouldn't let them.
I personally have to laugh when people talk about the Government protecting them. The Government let known terrorists get on those planes. The Government lets known terrorists walk around in our country every day. They always have a "good reason" for leaving them alone, such as waiting for a bigger fish.
With technology today, the government knows more about us than most of us could imagine. You can't tell me that when you buy a plane ticket, they couldn't check you out and eliminate 98% of passengers right off the bat as possible terrorists.
Here's an idea. How about a national carry law, and anyone with a permit can carry on a plane with frangible ammo (safety, you know). Do you think any terrorists would try anything then?:dgrin::twoguns:

 

[wstphal]

Here's an idea. How about a national carry law, and anyone with a permit can carry on a plane with frangible ammo (safety, you know). Do you think any terrorists would try anything then?:dgrin::twoguns:

I'm not sure I trust EVERYONE with a CCW to exercise good judgment on a plane. How about everyone who wants to carry on a plane has to take combat shooting tests designed to put them under VERY HIGH stress in an environment built to look like a plane, and everyone who passes gets issued with airplane suitable ammo for their carry piece, and a discount on their flight if they carry on board? Oh, and they should have re-qualify every 3-6 months to keep their privileges. It would be like putting a few air marshals on EVERY flight. I know the real Marshals have special ammo designed for that environment, and we could issue it to these people at the gate when they boarded (obviously they'd have to board before everyone else).

Edit: In case it isn't clear, I DO think it's a great idea! I know somebody who is retired from the Marines, and has nerves of steel. He'd be perfect. He holds a CCW, shoots regularly, has leadership skills. Put a few guys like him on every plane (maybe limit this program to police, and military: active duty, reserves & retired at first as those are people who are likely to have the judgment & discipline to do the right thing) and that would be the end of hijackings, shoe bombers & underwear bombers. It wouldn't stop someone who had had the bomb implanted in their abdomen, unfortunately, and I think at some point AlQaida is gonna try that one.

 

[Outcast]

Here's an idea. How about a national carry law, and anyone with a permit can carry on a plane with frangible ammo (safety, you know). Do you think any terrorists would try anything then?:dgrin::twoguns:

Too bad too many people are afraid of a national carry permit. If there were one, I would love to get one. That way I would not have to leave my pistol in the car almost every place I go.

 

[wstphal]

I don't understand why we can't have regional & national CCWs. Seems to me that if the person meets the standards of the strictest state, they meet the standards of all the rest. CCW is NOT for everyone. And I think we do need recurring proof of a minimum level of gun safety and competency to keep a CCW, but not all states mandate that. I'd like to see a uniform set of rules that all states have, plus the states should be allowed to add on rules to suit their local conditions.

 

[rexracer]

I'm not sure I trust EVERYONE with a CCW to exercise good judgment on a plane. How about everyone who wants to carry on a plane has to take combat shooting tests designed to put them under VERY HIGH stress in an environment built to look like a plane, and everyone who passes gets issued with airplane suitable ammo for their carry piece, and a discount on their flight if they carry on board? Oh, and they should have re-qualify every 3-6 months to keep their privileges. It would be like putting a few air marshals on EVERY flight. I know the real Marshals have special ammo designed for that environment, and we could issue it to these people at the gate when they boarded (obviously they'd have to board before everyone else).

I think that's a GREAT idea, and I would be the first in line for training.
We can never be totally safe from psyco's willing to do anything it takes to hurt others. There are too many people who can be bought, for one thing.
I, for one, am not willing to give up my freedom, and the rights guaranteed by the Constitution, for the illusion of safety.
The thing that terrorists want is to create terror! They do this by making people afraid, and always wondering "what if". They want to change our way of life and would love to see us become a police state. What happens if a mall gets bombed? Do we need a scan and strip search to go to the mall after that? What if they bomb a park full of kids? Fence it off with barbed wire and search everyone entering?
The only way to stop terrorism is from the other end. We need to make sure that kids growing up have a good life and access to education so they don't get sucked in to this extreme fundamentalist mentality. We can also be aware of our surroundings, and know our neighbors and community. Keep an eye out for each other.

 

[The_Thunderer]

I agree. I wish people would just shut up about it. It's standard practice in other countries to be patted down, we're slow once again, and I've had it happen. I think it should be "get scanned/patted down or don't fly". You're complaining about them trying to keep you safe???? Seriously?

LOL. Our local radio station has asked ANYONE to provide any information as to where TSA has stopped a terrorist from boarding a plane... I mean actually caught someone with a bomb strapped to them or in their shoes or in their underwear using scanners, pat down procedures or preventing you from carrying a bottle of water onto the plane... NO CALLS YET!

Those that have been caught were already on the planes... AND were caught by private citizens... AFAIK...

 

[kathylove]

I do agree with the person who posted that it is highly unlikely that terrorists will ever be able to take over a plane again in this country. Everyone knows what they plan to do with the plane, and what the outcome is for passengers as well as people on the ground. So I think that passengers won't let it happen, and terrorists probably know it. That's why I am not as worried about ceramic knives, or even guns, as explosives (although we still want to stop those, too, of course!)

They can still blow up the plane no matter what the passengers do. But with knives, guns, or similar weapons, the passengers (and hopefully, air marshals), can stop them, even though it will probably still cause some loss of life.

Luckily, explosives should be easier to catch with dogs or machines, compared to ceramic knives and other weapons.

 

[starsevol]

The government is totally out of control right now.
If you think that the Bush administration was bad as far as intrusion into people's lives, freedoms being eroded, and the government spying on it's citizens, well, this one's worse.

And I will tell you what, I was almost afraid to type this, because I KNOW that someone somewhere is keeping tabs on what is said on the net.

 

[susang]

I don't know what is too much and what is not enough; but let me add this the next target may not be a plane. Just think Mall of America Fri AM a few well placed suicide bombers, or as I heard the other night a person in a major airport waiting in line tomorrow, or as Timothy Mcveigh a well placed truck full of bombs.

 

[rexracer]

exactly my point. With this latest "security" push at airports, the terrorists have already won with the airports. What's next? Do we really want to live in a country where you get a full body scan and a pat down to go to any public place? Next thing they'll want everyone to get chipped so that the government knows where you are at every second.:nope:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Is it too much?if the scanners don't even catch the people that are willing to use a body cavity to conceal a bomb and it really doesn't make us any safer then maybe it is. But should the technology stop one bad thing from happening I would say it is worth it to have to walk through a machine. I don't really think MOST people will be subjected to the patdowns unless there is a reason to be suspicious of them and I would rather see some innocent persons get frisked and inconvenienced than a bomber get on a plane with explosives tucked where the sun don't shine. I do like the idea of having lots of dogs at the airports. I really trust a well trained dog that know what to sniff for a lot more than I trust human judgement or a machine.
I will probably just not fly much though because it is a lot to go through. Though 'm personally expecting them to hit Amtrak or some other target, having traveled by train lately. There were no security checks to board the trains that I can remember.

 

[wstphal]

And I will tell you what, I was almost afraid to type this, because I KNOW that someone somewhere is keeping tabs on what is said on the net.

The monitoring is probably being done by computer software that only forwards "hits" to a human analyst, but yeah, it's happening.

 

[Outcast]

Gotta love big brother always looking over our shoulder in the name of "safety".

 

[Tavia]

I was reading some articles on agency 5 book pricing & one of the comments someone made, made me think of this thread because what they said applies to so many different things! Here is the quote.

Mostly because when e-books started taking off, they did notice that unauthorized copies were being made, panicked, and demanded that Something Must Be Done.
Whenever you get a demand like this, there are two general responses:
1: Do Something that will give the illusion that something has been done, and just make people feel better/safer.
2: Do Something that will actually minimize the ability of the threatening behavior to be carried out.

Usually when you get panicked demands to Do Something Now, you see a whole lot of option 1, with a smattering of option 2. It’s usually cheaper, easier, and simply involves creating litigation that makes the behavior ‘punishable’, and thus Someone Else’s Problem.

Part of the problem, of course, is that you will usually get a solution that looks like a 2, but turns out to be a 1. Current DRM is a good example.

 

[vetusvates]

Well, if the events around Halloween are any indication of trends....humans as vehicles for explosives may soon be a non-issue (obsolete).
I know everyone saw the news, around 29-31 October, about the grounded planes, that had suspicious looking packages that turned out to be copier/printer ink/toner cartridges modified to contain explosives.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/packing-petn-explosives-in-printer-cartridges-fits-al-qaeda-m-o/

I was curious, and called myself listening to the news, but never heard what specifically betrayed the presence of the concealed devices. But that is beside my point re the theme of the thread. There should be some 'technological' screening procedure to prevent explosives from boarding planes. Even if it is a highly trained canine that is a super-sniffer when it comes to, say, the top 20 explosives.
That those two(?) bombs came from Yemen,...and were headed for jewish temples were obvious in retrospect, but is there no more technologically thorough way...without consuming too much time? I'm just asking?

And I don't want to start a war about the putting of a system into practice, or people who are or maybe afraid of dogs.
But I would much more prefer a very professional (disinterested/asexual) beagle, spaniel, labrador, or GSD sniffing my crotch....than Acme Security's Joe Schmoe thumbing through my personal pocket dictionary like he knew me or something.

 

[TandJ]

Everything else might be considered profiling.. Ah bite me, hate how PC we have become...

 

[vetusvates]

Everything else might be considered profiling.. Ah bite me, hate how PC we have become...

I know. And I was watching a show on the news where they were talking about just that, Tim,...last night.

I suppose we are supposed to remain, all of us, in a state of non-discrimination regarding parcels originating from Yemen.

If, in my life, I had been chased/bitten/mauled/ on numerous occasions by...oh...say...neapolitan mastiffs (randomly chosen breed)...I would be a horrible person for flinching or speaking haltingly on big wrinkled mastiffs from Napoli.
But at the door to my house, I might pause at embracing a charging, baying, gnashing neapolitan mastiff. Or even if he was on a leash, and pulling at it, and looking at me like human steak tartar, I might even slam the door and not let him in. I would be such a horrible person....but I think I could live with it.

 

[diamondlil]

I know. And I was watching a show on the news where they were talking about just that, Tim,...last night.

I suppose we are supposed to remain, all of us, in a state of non-discrimination regarding parcels originating from Yemen.

If, in my life, I had been chased/bitten/mauled/ on numerous occasions by...oh...say...neapolitan mastiffs (randomly chosen breed)...I would be a horrible person for flinching or speaking haltingly on big wrinkled mastiffs from Napoli.
But at the door to my house, I might pause at embracing a charging, baying, gnashing neapolitan mastiff. Or even if he was on a leash, and pulling at it, and looking at me like human steak tartar, I might even slam the door and not let him in. I would be such a horrible person....but I think I could live with it.

A little off-topic, but this neopolitan mastiff would just love you to death!