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Burnt

Over my years on this site, I have seen MANY times that a member had to endure some terrible emotional or other tragedy, and I have seen how much support they had here. At times, this was the only place they had to vent, or get support, from those who understood them better, in some ways, than their own family. And there were a few times when 1 or more members even helped out financially (or helped replace a lost animal) for a member in distress. I remember (and value) those times more than the occasional trolls and flame wars seen here.
 
I agree~ interacting with my snakes is very relaxing--maybe partly for the fact that you need to be relaxed while holding them-I feel like they can sense tension,so my husband & I like to stay mellow while holding them & they seem to respond well to our attitudes. Truly amazing animals & simply gorgeous! So easy to love :)
 
I have a burned out personality I think. :laugh: Even though I was a vet tech forever after 4-5 years I would need a change of scenery and start looking for another animal hospital.

I really wish I would have joined this forum years ago. I have met some wonderful people. Many whom I haven't met in person who treat me better than the "friends" I have in my everyday life. I really think it comes down to our common interest and everyone just understands me.

Although, I have to give major props to those of you that have large collections. I know my 11 snakes is a lot of the average person but I look at all of you that have 50, 100, 200+ and I just dont know how you do it. Then forget about your babies. I had 30 this year and I really think that was getting close to my max limit on babies. I envy those of you that can handle a large collection and still enjoy it. I am going to keep blaming my brain damage on the reason you are doing circles around me.
 
For a second I feared you were tired of owning any snakes. I can see why you wouldn't want alot though. It's more expensive and hard to get to really know your snakes or form a bond with them :)
 
To answer a few of the more recent posts... I will never be burnt out on owning snakes, just owing a LOT of snakes.

Snakes will always be my favorite animal. And it is a blessing to be able to own your favorite animal. The ease of care for one or two is so easy, it is tough to get burnt out. Heck, if I want to forget about them for a while, all I really have to do is feed once a week and change the water twice a week. They couldn't care less if I hold them or not.

It has been great reading everyone's thoughts. Thank you all for sharing!
 
knox said:
To answer a few of the more recent posts... I will never be burnt out on owning snakes, just owing a LOT of snakes.

Snakes will always be my favorite animal. And it is a blessing to be able to own your favorite animal. The ease of care for one or two is so easy, it is tough to get burnt out. Heck, if I want to forget about them for a while, all I really have to do is feed once a week and change the water twice a week. They couldn't care less if I hold them or not.

It has been great reading everyone's thoughts. Thank you all for sharing!
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Sometimes I don't feel like feeding or holding them for a couple of days, then I just don't :) That's a great feature of them; if you are tired or sick or just plain lazy, you don't need to do more than a bit of poop scooping and just a check if they are comfy and have clean water. And indeed, handling them is relaxing, especially the little babies that squirm and do cute things. Hell, if not for owning about 40 snakes I would get burned out from the rest of my life, lol!
 
knox said:
To answer a few of the more recent posts... I will never be burnt out on owning snakes, just owing a LOT of snakes.
That is it exactly! I will always own some snakes. It's just I like 12 or 13 is better than owning 40+ like I do now. It has become work instead of play. It's been the same with my fuzzy creatures. As they naturally pass...I have not been replacing them. The hedgehog, the rats, the ferrets...none have been replace or will be replaced.

But I will always have snakes and other reptiles. ALWAYS!
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The most snakes I have had is 12 (not counting any hatchlings) and I felt burned out on that small number. Its all about time management and what you are comfortable with. I have my conure and snakes that travel with me so right now I have 7 and its a good number. Until I get my loaner snake back and her babies anyway. Then I will have 10. But 10 is a good round number I think for me. I too had to let my rats pass, such great pets but they do take up a lot of time, and can be an expensive pet!
 
It also depends what other hobbies and social life you have or have not. I don't have another real hobby and not many friends, so even though I work 40 hours a week I can easily manage my collection and babies in baby season plus selling at a couple of fairs each year.
 
See that is where I give you props. I don't have friends either. I don't have a job. I go to school part time ONLINE! And there is still no way I could handle the numbers you can. Thats ok by me. I know what I can handle and I love my babies just the same as you.
 
I don't know if I would have I am burnt out - but the lack of time and resources has made it much more difficult for me to care for my current collection which is why I am still in the process of downsizing.

When I worked at home and made good money, it was never a problem to buckle down and feed 70+ snakes. Now, working out of the house, long drives/hours for work, jack for a paycheck - and it makes me almost dread feeding time....

I hate to think of all the time I have to put in to feeding and cleaning when I have so precious little time to get everything done anymore on my days off. But when I actually start - it makes me remember why I got in to this in the first place. How much I enjoy working with them, interacting with them.

But at the moment - they are the ones suffering due to my lack of time. They aren't getting fed on a regular schedule and I really have to make my collection a more manageable size. Both for their own good and mine.

So - I don't think I have reached burnt out yet - just disheartened that my life has changed in ways that doesn't allow me to keep up with my snakes the way I want to. That I have to pick and choose who to let go of - some that I have a sentimental attachment to, some that I have been raising up for specific breeding projects.
 
One thing that I completely turns me off snake keepers and more towards biologist/herpetologists ... people who catch and keep wild snakes! Its simply infuriating.
 
I would rather see somebody catch and keep a few (for themselves, not to sell in large quantities) rather than an academic pickle hundreds of them. I do understand that they need a preserved collection in museums and universities, and that they do come in handy for research at times. We have picked up many road kills to donate to museums ourselves over the years. But I have seen some academics go way overboard on numbers. It just makes me sad to see a perfectly healthy animal go into a pickle jar.
 
kathylove said:
I would rather see somebody catch and keep a few (for themselves, not to sell in large quantities) rather than an academic pickle hundreds of them. I do understand that they need a preserved collection in museums and universities, and that they do come in handy for research at times. We have picked up many road kills to donate to museums ourselves over the years. But I have seen some academics go way overboard on numbers. It just makes me sad to see a perfectly healthy animal go into a pickle jar.
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Amen!

I remember a field trip I was on with a prof that was collecting for the museum. Several of the students would see things only to "not be fast enough" to catch them so they didn't make it to the jar. ;)
 
Now that you are invested in the academic path, but still have a foot in the hobby, you will probably be exposed to the pros and cons of both sides more than most. I have seen this clash with several friends who straddle both worlds.

Unfortunately, since our wars began with the AR groups and the government, many scientists seem to have sold their souls to provide junk science to support whatever agenda seems to bring in grants these days, I have lost a lot of the overall respect and admiration I used to have for academics when I was younger. Of course I realize that many scientists really do want to find the truth. But I have done enough research in medicine and the health fields, and in our own herp field, to see dark side of science and our academic institutions. And it is not just in the US. I remember reading of an Australian doctor who discovered the bacteria responsible for causing most stomach ulcers. Instead of trying to replicate his results, his theory was immediately dismissed, and he was ostracized in medical circles. It was many years before he was vindicated, and patients began to recover using his discoveries. And I won't even go into some of the incomplete or biased results we have seen in herp "science" lately. We all know about that.

My hope is not to diminish science in any way. My hope is that non academics won't automatically elevate any particular scientist to a level where they are accepted as some deity, above ordinary mortals, lol! And that we shouldn't question both their results AND possibly, their motivations and agenda. Just because they are not in a profit seeking business does not mean they are unaffected by financial constraints any more than the rest of us. That is also true of government employees. They may not be in business, but they care about keeping their jobs as much as the next guy, and are not as altruistic as they would have you believe. Our society has been in a politically correct, anti profit, anti business mode for quite a while now - and the economy shows it.

Academics who put in as much time, effort, and money as you have to get where you are today deserve admiration for that effort. I just don't want anyone to think that reaching that level somehow makes one immune to real world needs, wants, and temptations that affect all human beings, lol! I would guess that you have seen this far more than I have, and could tell some interesting stories if you choose to do so. Maybe you can write a book someday, and tell us all about it!
 
kathylove said:
Now that you are invested in the academic path, but still have a foot in the hobby, you will probably be exposed to the pros and cons of both sides more than most. I have seen this clash with several friends who straddle both worlds.
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I have been straddling these worlds for quite some time and there are very few like me. Most are one side or the other. Very few academics remember their roots and their love of capturing critters--especially herps. The reason many of us love herps is because they were actually something we could see, catch, and observe more than most critters. Domestic mammals are probably the runner up but you just can't easily capture a squirrel or starling and keep it. Worms and bugs are close, too, but not quite the cool factor as many herps. I am sure there are other reasons people came to this sector of pet ownership but for me and many people I've talked to, being able to seek out and find these critters was a big advantage.

kathylove said:
Unfortunately, since our wars began with the AR groups and the government, many scientists seem to have sold their souls to provide junk science to support whatever agenda seems to bring in grants these days, I have lost a lot of the overall respect and admiration I used to have for academics when I was younger. Of course I realize that many scientists really do want to find the truth. But I have done enough research in medicine and the health fields, and in our own herp field, to see dark side of science and our academic institutions. And it is not just in the US. I remember reading of an Australian doctor who discovered the bacteria responsible for causing most stomach ulcers. Instead of trying to replicate his results, his theory was immediately dismissed, and he was ostracized in medical circles. It was many years before he was vindicated, and patients began to recover using his discoveries. And I won't even go into some of the incomplete or biased results we have seen in herp "science" lately. We all know about that.
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Yep...pubs = popularity. Many institutions do not even care about what your publications are, just that you have them. Numbers mean good. When I was applying for jobs I was overlooked at several institutions because my publication list is relatively short. For my doctorate I was doing whole-ecosystem science on one species and you cannot easily turn that into mutiple articles. Therefore, I have a few solid pubs but not the dozens that the other people put out. Plus, when doing one species you have to wait until the end of the study and you can't publish on every little finding. With other people, as many pubs as you can get equals good science. In order to get new grants you have to show old pubs. So...we have set up an academic industry where publications are valued on a number basis instead of whether they are valuable to science.


kathylove said:
Academics who put in as much time, effort, and money as you have to get where you are today deserve admiration for that effort. I just don't want anyone to think that reaching that level somehow makes one immune to real world needs, wants, and temptations that affect all human beings, lol! I would guess that you have seen this far more than I have, and could tell some interesting stories if you choose to do so. Maybe you can write a book someday, and tell us all about it!
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I have seen a lot and imagine I'll see more as I continue in the industry. Maybe a book will be in order....someday....

I have been part of three major divisions in this industry. The herpetoculture, herpetology, and the zoo industry. Very rarely do these parties co-exist and you find clearly drawn lines between the industries. There is some collaboration but not as much as is needed. All three have valid parts in the industry of wildlife and if they worked together instead of against each other there would be more opportunities.
 
I have always heard "Publish or perish" is the academic motto. Sounds like it is very true!

I have a friend who is director of part of a conservation group. Yet he also keeps and breeds a few herps, and has many friends in herpetoculture. He has a website, and designed a t shirt with herps on it. He asked me if I thought it was terrible to try to sell the t shirts on his site, which he pays for himself, and is primarily about providing free info about the species he works with! He was afraid that his academic peers would blast him for being too commercial! Keep in mind that he only wanted to sell shirts, not animals. I could only advise him that "normal" people would find his fund raising shirt sale on his privately paid site totally acceptable. If his academic peers found it to be too commercial when they subsisted on money supplied mainly by taxpayers, then I would I would see them as hypocritical, and I would see my friend as providing valuable info at no cost to anyone who doesn't want to buy a shirt.

That is part of the anti profit, anti biz, political correctness this country and economy currently suffers from, in my opinion. You are in a unique position to take notes, let each side see the good and bad of other perspectives - and maybe even change something - who knows? I have told my friend the same thing, but he is not the type to rock the boat, lol!
 
I have always heard "Publish or perish" is the academic motto.
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True in the UK as well. I've been advised to try and get my undergraduate research published (not on reptiles, sadly!) if I want to make any kind of impact in the academic world. It's never too soon to start if you're turning out decent work. And you certainly don't stand a chance of getting anywhere if you're unpublished.
 
i have 7 corns and i love evey one of them. there different traits and additudes. some people say snakes dont have personality but come meet mine they are all different. as for burnt out i hope that never happens to me. i have 18 hatchlings on the way in less then 12 days. yes i was told i can only keep one of the young . but would love to keep them all. reality is the only thing keeping me from argueing with my wife to keep them all.
 
I'm not a big fan of capturing from the wild. My main claim towards why to breed snakes is that breeding in captivation is preservation. To me, its the same thing as going outside and grabbing a coyote pup rather than buying a dog.
 
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