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COLD arrival
- Thread starter marchettid
- Start date
Roy Munson
New member
FYI: You can't post a thread in the BOI without identifying the vendor in the title. It will be deleted. But it doesn't sound like a BOI thread is really necessary.marchettid said:
Hope that girl pulls through. Maybe she'll be at a 9.13762 by mid-week.
marchettid
New member
She is still alive, but still acting very weird. She has taken very long drinks the past few days with my assistance. Her movements are still somewhat eratic. Saturday I found her laying completley on her back? I thought she was done for, but after flipping her over she moved a little. Her movements are very weird, but energy is increasing.
Any possibilities for brain damage, or something to that effect. It just seems like she never has any idea what is going on.
Any possibilities for brain damage, or something to that effect. It just seems like she never has any idea what is going on.
Just finished reading the thread, and I can't believe what the seller did!! I had a snake arive dead, but at least the seller knew what he was doing, and it was just an accident.
Hope your snake pulls through! just guessing, but I would say brain damage is a possibility. If the box was down to 25 or so then you can imagine the poor guy freezing and thawing. it seems to me that would have some bad afects.
And, i'm also wondering what other packaging was in the box, an was the snake shipped through UPS? Or fed-ex??
best of luck, and keep us updated!
Hope your snake pulls through! just guessing, but I would say brain damage is a possibility. If the box was down to 25 or so then you can imagine the poor guy freezing and thawing. it seems to me that would have some bad afects.
And, i'm also wondering what other packaging was in the box, an was the snake shipped through UPS? Or fed-ex??
best of luck, and keep us updated!
Drewby07
curiocreatures.com
To me this sounds like brain / nerve / tissue damage from being frozen.
In February there was a crew digging with a backhoe near my work. The ambient temps were in the low 50s and freezing at night. On the way home from work I spotted a snake that I later identified as a Black Racer lying in the road....apparently sunning himself. I went to check on the animal....picked it up....and noticed a strange wound on it's back. Upon closer examination it seemed someone had either stepped on or run over the snake.
The snake slowly started a strange jerky gyrating motion....almost the motion the make while swimming. All I can think is that this is a reflexive sort of flight motion....it was in pain and trying to get away. I took the snake home and tried to make it comfy and slowly begin to warm it up. It was dead by the next morning.
I would say that if the snake doesn't improve drastically in the next few days it might be time to end it's suffering. I know it sucks but sometimes there's only so much we can do.
In February there was a crew digging with a backhoe near my work. The ambient temps were in the low 50s and freezing at night. On the way home from work I spotted a snake that I later identified as a Black Racer lying in the road....apparently sunning himself. I went to check on the animal....picked it up....and noticed a strange wound on it's back. Upon closer examination it seemed someone had either stepped on or run over the snake.
The snake slowly started a strange jerky gyrating motion....almost the motion the make while swimming. All I can think is that this is a reflexive sort of flight motion....it was in pain and trying to get away. I took the snake home and tried to make it comfy and slowly begin to warm it up. It was dead by the next morning.
I would say that if the snake doesn't improve drastically in the next few days it might be time to end it's suffering. I know it sucks but sometimes there's only so much we can do.
marchettid
New member
The snake has drank a good amount of water each day Ive had her. She poo'd sometime last night, with not much consistency. Shes moving around more, but still is making weird head motions. I would relate these motions to an anole lizard, if you know what I mean (up and down somewhat eratically). She was shipped via Fed- Ex, tied in a lightweight pillowcase, with some heavy crumbled paper around the pillow case for cushioning I suppose?
Any other input on possible brain damage or nerve damage? Feeding and other suggestions? Humanly putting the snake to sleep?
Any other input on possible brain damage or nerve damage? Feeding and other suggestions? Humanly putting the snake to sleep?
Drewby07
curiocreatures.com
Well there are only 2 possible scenarios I can think of here.
#1 - The snake has suffered some sort of neurological damage or other tissue damage as a result of being partially frozen. In the case of neurological damage, there is no healing in those types of injuries. If the snake is mortally injured it will eventually die.
If the damage isn't neurological, the loss of motor control could be caused by damage to other parts of the body. These injuries could heal, they could eventually be fatal. There is no way to really tell.
#2 - Though I doubt it, there is also a possibility that the extreme cold temps sent the snake into sort of a forced brumation and the erratic behavior she is showing is just a result of the warming up process. If this is the case...then theoretically she will
The problem is.....there is really no way to tell which of these scenarios apply. I honestly doubt that even a vet could do any more than make an educated guess. I hesitate to tell you what you "should" do. I can only relate what I would do if I were in your situation.
I would attempt to make the animal comfortable, as it seems you are doing. Give her normal conditions that you would give any other snake. Assuming the best case scenario, she should keep recovering steadily. Assuming the worst, she will not recover. Basically it all boils down to a judgement call as to whether or not you are really seeing improvement....or you are merely prolonging the life of an animal with wounds that will never heal. The number one priority (for me anyway) would be to make sure the animal is not suffering unnecessarily.
Sorry for the long post....I hope this helps.
--Drew
#1 - The snake has suffered some sort of neurological damage or other tissue damage as a result of being partially frozen. In the case of neurological damage, there is no healing in those types of injuries. If the snake is mortally injured it will eventually die.
If the damage isn't neurological, the loss of motor control could be caused by damage to other parts of the body. These injuries could heal, they could eventually be fatal. There is no way to really tell.
#2 - Though I doubt it, there is also a possibility that the extreme cold temps sent the snake into sort of a forced brumation and the erratic behavior she is showing is just a result of the warming up process. If this is the case...then theoretically she will
The problem is.....there is really no way to tell which of these scenarios apply. I honestly doubt that even a vet could do any more than make an educated guess. I hesitate to tell you what you "should" do. I can only relate what I would do if I were in your situation.
I would attempt to make the animal comfortable, as it seems you are doing. Give her normal conditions that you would give any other snake. Assuming the best case scenario, she should keep recovering steadily. Assuming the worst, she will not recover. Basically it all boils down to a judgement call as to whether or not you are really seeing improvement....or you are merely prolonging the life of an animal with wounds that will never heal. The number one priority (for me anyway) would be to make sure the animal is not suffering unnecessarily.
Sorry for the long post....I hope this helps.
--Drew
Nanci
Alien Lover
I agree with Drew. Make her as comfortable as possible. I think I'd soon be seeing if I could get her to eat anything. If she eats after several attempts, I'd just wait and see- let nature take its course. If she can't eat, and appears to be losing weight, I'd probably have her put to sleep.
Nanci
Nanci
onelifetolive45
Too many to choose from!!
I would say to give her another week, late this week try to feed her a small meal. If she takes it down no problem then that would be a great sign, wait an extended period to try and feed again, I'm sure her digestive system took a hit from the shipping conditions. If she refuses to eat or has some other complication ex. regurges. Then I would say it is time to end her suffering. However so far, from the first post it seems she has made some significant improvements.
marchettid
New member
Conditions are staying the same for now, and especially the temp (got my new herpstat in the mail yesterday!)
As for feeding, any suggestions on size of prey? I'm going to assume smaller than normal, considering she could easily eat an adult mouse, maybe Ill feed a hopper/ fuzzy.
Thanks,
Doug
As for feeding, any suggestions on size of prey? I'm going to assume smaller than normal, considering she could easily eat an adult mouse, maybe Ill feed a hopper/ fuzzy.
Thanks,
Doug
onelifetolive45
Too many to choose from!!
I would say a small hopper, you really dont want to push anything bigger than that in her condition
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
It has been over 5 days. If your snake simply went into brumation and the erratic movements are only due to that, she would be back to normal by now. Also, the fact that you've found her on her back is an extremely bad sign. I hate to say it, but I think it is time to end her suffering.
snakemom1961
Spring is here!
Susan said:
I hate to agree with Susan, but I feel she must have suffered some neurological damage from the extreme cold temps she was shipped in.
If it were me, as hard as it would be I'd do what was best for the snake in my eyes and end her suffering. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
Drewby07
curiocreatures.com
And in case you are wondering, the best way to euthanize her would be to put her in a comfy container and put her in the freezer. Leave her there for several hours to be SURE she is totally frozen and well....dead.
Sorry for the loss, but I believe this is best for the snake.
Sorry for the loss, but I believe this is best for the snake.
Nanci
Alien Lover
As long as she isn't starving, I don't think it hurts anything to see if she can feed. Unless he is opposed to having a less than perfect snake. If she was going to be "just" a pet, what's the harm?
Nanci
Owner of one-legged non-flying pigeon. That I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.
Nanci
Owner of one-legged non-flying pigeon. That I wouldn't trade for anything in the world.
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
So sorry to hear of your shipping disaster!
I am not very optimistic about the outcome, but I can't say I ever had to deal with a frozen snake that showed those symptoms.
If you do decide to euthanize, the more recent vet opinions seem to be against freezing, and now consider it inhumane due to the pain of cells bursting when they freeze. One vet told me that the snake could be rendered unconscious by prolonged refrigeration, and then humanely frozen. I have read a couple of threads on this forum about the subject, with many suggestions, so you might want to do a search if you decide that is the decision you have to make.
Good luck whatever you decide.
I am not very optimistic about the outcome, but I can't say I ever had to deal with a frozen snake that showed those symptoms.
If you do decide to euthanize, the more recent vet opinions seem to be against freezing, and now consider it inhumane due to the pain of cells bursting when they freeze. One vet told me that the snake could be rendered unconscious by prolonged refrigeration, and then humanely frozen. I have read a couple of threads on this forum about the subject, with many suggestions, so you might want to do a search if you decide that is the decision you have to make.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Duff
New member
First off, I want to say I hope it doesn't come down to having to euthanize your pet, but just in case, I think you should know that cooling/freezing is NOT considered humane by everyone. There have been studies done that show there is a very high likelyhood the snake does feel pain from freezing. Here's a thread with more info if you'd like to check it out
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44198&highlight=freezing+humane
Don't want to turn this into another debate, just want to make sure you get all the info so you can make the best choice possible if needed.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44198&highlight=freezing+humane
Don't want to turn this into another debate, just want to make sure you get all the info so you can make the best choice possible if needed.