Coming Out to Friend

[Chip]

I collect two things that make a lot of people nervous who aren't familiar with them; snakes and firearms. Both are tucked away into small spaces (safes and racks) and would never be noticed by a casual guest coming over that didn't enter the rooms in which they are kept -and probably not right away even then! I've had new friends and dates come over for a half dozen times before the conversation came up. The way I look at it, it's not that big of a deal. If I collected coins or crocheted or something, I wouldn't feel the need to explain that before someone came over, so why with snakes or firearms? Just because people have prejudices about things doesn't mean I have to cater to them and explain with utmost sensitivity that I have a hobby they don't. We aren't here long, do what you enjoy. Other people can get over it or not.

 

[Nanci]

From wikipedia:

Sociolinguistic origin

The present-day expression "coming out" is understood to have originated in the early 20th century from an analogy that likens homosexuals’ introduction into gay subculture to a débutante’s coming-out party. This is a celebration for a young upper-class woman who is making her début – her formal presentation to society – because she has reached adult age or has become eligible for marriage. As historian George Chauncey points out:

"Gay people in the pre-war years [pre-WWI]... did not speak of coming out of what we call the gay closet but rather of coming out into what they called homosexual society or the gay world, a world neither so small, nor so isolated, nor... so hidden as closet implies"[11]
​

In fact, as Elizabeth Kennedy observes, "using the term 'closet' to refer to" previous times such as "the 1920s and 1930s might be anachronistic."[12]
An article on coming out[13] in the online encyclopedia glbtq.com states that sexologist Dr. Evelyn Hooker’s observations introduced the use of "coming out" to the academic community in the 1950s. The article continues by echoing Chauncey's observation that a subsequent shift in connotation occurred later on. The pre-1950s focus was on entrance into "a new world of hope and communal solidarity" whereas the post-Stonewall Riots overtone was an exit from the oppression of the closet.[13] This change in focus suggests that "coming out of the closet" is a mixed metaphor that joins "coming out" with the closet metaphor: an evolution of "skeleton in the closet" specifically referring to living a life of denial and secrecy by concealing one’s homosexual or bisexual orientation. The closet metaphor, in turn, is extended to the forces and pressures of heterosexist society and its institutions.

 

[Nanci]

I thought this thread might have been about being gay and coming out, and found it rather humorous that in fact the OP was coming out as a snake owner. But I'm not gay, so maybe I'm not as sensitive.

I _do_ know this forum has seen a ton of discussion about alternative lifestyles, and we are not 100% but dang near accepting of everyone and their choices. Because of my workplace environment, and my significant number of IRL and on-line gay friends, and the ever-increasing equal rights, I sometimes forget that there still are people who struggle with not being free to be who they are, love who they want, marry who they want, work where they want, without fear. I guess you guys never forget though. I'm sorry for that.

 

[vetusvates]

A débutante and her début.

A big party with pretty girls in fancy dresses. Now that is great marketing for the snake hobby. LOL.

 

[diamondlil]

I have a friend visiting me later this year for about a week. He'll be staying in my home. He's terrified of snakes, and I have 6. (I suppose he has a good reason to be scared of them as he's from South Africa, which is home to puff adders, mambas and other dangerous species.) I intend to keep the sweater box terrariums out of sight, and as I've not had an escapee since I began keeping snakes 2 years ago, I feel confident I can just hush-hush this.

Of course there's always the chance of him discovering them somehow.

Should I come out to him as a snake hobbyist? Simply assure him that they are secure and no one will be constricted to death, and all is well? I still think the best policy is silence, but am open to suggestions.

I'd say given you do know your friend is strongly averse to snakes, telling him before he visits and discussing whether he'll be comfortable with them in the same house would be a good idea

 

[The Cat]

I wouldn't fuss so much about telling your friend about the snakes. If your friend is going to YOUR house, he would have to accept it.

 

[cjbage]

I collect two things that make a lot of people nervous who aren't familiar with them; snakes and firearms. Both are tucked away into small spaces (safes and racks) and would never be noticed by a casual guest coming over that didn't enter the rooms in which they are kept -and probably not right away even then! I've had new friends and dates come over for a half dozen times before the conversation came up. The way I look at it, it's not that big of a deal. If I collected coins or crocheted or something, I wouldn't feel the need to explain that before someone came over, so why with snakes or firearms? Just because people have prejudices about things doesn't mean I have to cater to them and explain with utmost sensitivity that I have a hobby they don't. We aren't here long, do what you enjoy. Other people can get over it or not.

I usually don't tell anyone about my firearms, unless I know they have minor's that will be coming with them if it's the first time in my house and they usually keep a better eye on their kids n not let them run rampant. I unload and lock them up before hand anyway. Otherwise they stay loaded in the safe unless they are my SD ones that are hidden throughout the home or on me.

 

[The Cat]

I myself am not "out" to my family- many of them would disown me or drown me in pamphlets about "saving my soul."

Please know that saying things like that last phrase could be offending to Christians, and I am sure there are a few on this site. I just wanted to note that this COULD be taken as rude, seeing as we (Christians) are serious about that topic.

I am genuinely sorry if anyone is offended by this post, that is not my intention.

 

[Michael823]

Anyway, I'll leave you guys to the OP's questions. I just didn't want to totally ignore your replies and wanted to appologize for reacting the way I did.

Psshh.. no need to polligize.

I appreciate that you came back to read the responses, rather than assuming we were all just being jerx.

I make the BIG mistake sometimes, of thinking that I'm so beyond the petty hatred and ignorance of phobias and isms, that I'm cool to be a part of any conversation (or humor). Which is wrong. It's my way of being 'down with the cause', but it's good to be reminded every now and then that, though I've faced my own difficulties and persecutions in life, my experience is not someone else's. And, even in my most light-hearted and well-meaning of contexts, I do NOT have to live with your struggle. So, although my intent wasn't to offend, and you now see that, you were still telling your truth in your post, and for that, you're right to say what you did.

 

[vetusvates]

I myself am not "out" to my family- many of them would disown me or drown me in pamphlets about "saving my soul."

She didn't want a "send Jenny back to Jay-sus" (insert televangelist voice here) funeral...

Please know that saying things like that last phrase could be offending to Christians, and I am sure there are a few on this site. I just wanted to note that this COULD be taken as rude, seeing as we (Christians) are serious about that topic.

I am genuinely sorry if anyone is offended by this post, that is not my intention.

I am also a Christian. And neither quote blue nor quote green offended me in any way, whatsover. One is sad and one is hilarious.
Note, and I think my JesusTapDancingOnACracker gif is quite novel, thought-provoking, and yes, funny in a lame slapstick kind of way. One could even call it a miracle if one chose.

My life's work is to offend equally, and shine light into the darkest of corners .......indiscriminately.
Even the most smug and complacent and very deep and darkest of corners---they seem to beckon to me irresistibly.
When I think of (in addition to a laundry list of other things) the ancient libraries of the world and two continents of native americans wiped out in the name of propagating christianity.......the free pass for christians gets revoked.

One's own personal religious, or non-religious, convictions of whatever nature should be deep, profound, untouchable, and ironclad. Not fragile like glass filigree in a tornado or spun sugar in a rainstorm.

_________________________________________________

Note: my signature. Not anybody else's, but it's mine.
Contains both the Fourth Pope, and the Mother of Methodism.
Catholicism and Protestantism get equal time.

_________________________________________________

 

[Senusenu]

Please know that saying things like that last phrase could be offending to Christians, and I am sure there are a few on this site. I just wanted to note that this COULD be taken as rude, seeing as we (Christians) are serious about that topic.

I am genuinely sorry if anyone is offended by this post, that is not my intention.

Finding a pamphlet on my car's windshield with a load of hogwash about how evil and nasty gay people are and how they are going to burn in hell is offensive (yes, I got one of those pieces of trash stuck to my car a few years ago). Admitting that my family would in fact try to "save me" I cannot fathom how that is offensive.

 

[smigon]

Please know that saying things like that last phrase could be offending to Christians, and I am sure there are a few on this site. I just wanted to note that this COULD be taken as rude, seeing as we (Christians) are serious about that topic.

I am genuinely sorry if anyone is offended by this post, that is not my intention.

A gay person would make a personal choice to come out, telling people "I am gay". That is it, not trying to force others to be gay as well, not even trying to force them to accept homosexuality in general, they are just letting their sexual preference be known publicly and hope that they are accepted for it.

Having a religious party (and it is not only Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.) invading your space by placing flyers on your car, forcing unwanted literature on you or publicly protesting their beliefs is not the same thing at all. Gays "come out" simply to make their sexuality known and to (hopefully) unburden themselves of what had been a secret, not to push it on to others. Religious fanatics DO try to push their beliefs on to others and "save" these "sinners".

I have NEVER encountered a gay person trying to make me gay, but there are thousands (if not millions) of religious people trying to turn gay people into what they are not.

As a Christian you, like everyone else, have every right to your opinion, but you are also making a choice to accept that someone is homosexual and move on, or "bully" gays with words or written material (and, in the extreme, physical abuse) into trying to make them feel ashamed by what is not even their choice.

I respect your opinion, Cat, I am not at all offended by your beliefs or lifestyle, but I hope you aren't offended by others' beliefs or lifestyle. You don't have to like it or accept it, just know that it is what it is.

Live and let live. And, as a bonus, I have found that most of my gay friends are WAY more fun than my straight ones! Also, the lines are shorter for the ladies room at gay bars.

 

[Senusenu]

A gay person would make a personal choice to come out, telling people "I am gay". That is it, not trying to force others to be gay as well, not even trying to force them to accept homosexuality in general, they are just letting their sexual preference be known publicly and hope that they are accepted for it.

Having a religious party (and it is not only Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.) invading your space by placing flyers on your car, forcing unwanted literature on you or publicly protesting their beliefs is not the same thing at all. Gays "come out" simply to make their sexuality known and to (hopefully) unburden themselves of what had been a secret, not to push it on to others. Religious fanatics DO try to push their beliefs on to others and "save" these "sinners".

I have NEVER encountered a gay person trying to make me gay, but there are thousands (if not millions) of religious people trying to turn gay people into what they are not.

As a Christian you, like everyone else, have every right to your opinion, but you are also making a choice to accept that someone is homosexual and move on, or "bully" gays with words or written material (and, in the extreme, physical abuse) into trying to make them feel ashamed by what is not even their choice.

I respect your opinion, Cat, I am not at all offended by your beliefs or lifestyle, but I hope you aren't offended by others' beliefs or lifestyle. You don't have to like it or accept it, just know that it is what it is.

Live and let live. And, as a bonus, I have found that most of my gay friends are WAY more fun than my straight ones! Also, the lines are shorter for the ladies room at gay bars.

I find they will happily guard the men's room door for you if the women's is full!

 

[smigon]

Antiochian, my apologies for helping to derail your thread.

Hmm. Your friend is terrified of snakes. My first thought would be to keep them at a friend's house for the duration of the visit, and while he is there (perhaps after a glass of wine or two), tell him the truth. Who knows, once you start talking about them and showing him pictures and explaining all the good things about corns, he may even show interest. If he does, take him to the "snake hotel" and let him meet your kids.

If he shows no interest, then don't push the subject or bring it up again.

Again, sorry for the derailment!

 

[smigon]

I find they will happily guard the men's room door for you if the women's is full!

True dat! Or they don't even care if there is a woman in there to begin with!

 

[Senusenu]

Antiochian, my apologies for helping to derail your thread.

Hmm. Your friend is terrified of snakes. My first thought would be to keep them at a friend's house for the duration of the visit, and while he is there (perhaps after a glass of wine or two), tell him the truth. Who knows, once you start talking about them and showing him pictures and explaining all the good things about corns, he may even show interest. If he does, take him to the "snake hotel" and let him meet your kids.

If he shows no interest, then don't push the subject or bring it up again.

Again, sorry for the derailment!

I am kind of a terrible person sometimes and find fear of animals that can't actually cause any significant harm to be funny, but I do make sure to restrain my amusement until I can be sure I wouldn't offend them over it. Baby corns are such tiny little worms, and seeing people cower way off in the corner unable to even look at picture- not a living animal, but a very obviously not alive picture-is just so very hard for me to identify with at all.

I do have a phobia, a common one, and totally understand that people don't have control of them, but I just cannot identify with animal based fears in any regard. I know that makes me a bit insensitive.

(My fear is flying- I have anxiety and panic attacks when getting on a plane and while we are sitting with the sky bridge still attached. My mind rationalizes it to "if the plane crashes, I am probably going to die", and totally makes sense to be afraid of dying. "A snake the size of an earthworm that isn't even venomous is terrifying" baffles me. I have to take something to make me sleep, and have to fight hyperventilating before that starts to work. I try to imagine having that reaction to an animal and I just can't do it.)

I would simply say "I have snakes, they are in a different room/have locks on them that are impossible to open/you wouldn't even know it if I didn't tell you." It's my house, and my pets are part of my family. I certainly wouldn't try to force them to interact with the animal, but I wouldn't hide my pets, either.

 

[HVani]

Even if it was derailed, this thread has been fascinating. I love hearing about other people's viewpoints. I was born heterosexual so I never had to go through any of the hardships that the LGBT community do. I empathize with people that had a different and more difficult road than I, but in the end you have to follow your heart and be who you are. I respect that.


On topic post here:

Whenever I have someone staying with me that I know is afraid of snakes, I am very upfront with them. I tell them where the snakes are (in a closed room) and promise them that they are in their cages with locks. In some cases if they are comfortable I even show them the locks and how secure the tanks are. I do whatever I can to make them comfortable in my home.

I know how illogical phobias are and I do my best to be respectful of that.

 

[antiochian]

Can we not equate snake ownership with the struggle of LGBT people? Thanks. :/

Hi there. I'd never want to do that. For one, I've had the experience of coming out as gay. I've come "out of the broom closet" as Pagan, too. I'm a gay witch that keeps snakes.

My passion for snakes is a big part of my life, as are my other passions and interests, but I would never elevate them to the emotional and visceral day-to-day struggle we face to survive and thrive in a society that often values "tradition" and false notions of "morality" over living beings. Maybe that's part of why I see the snake as such a great animal, because they too are hated and misunderstood.

Don't meant to ramble; Just wanted to clarify.

 

[antiochian]

No apology necessary, the "just woke up" reason completely resonated with me, although mine are usually when I have just taken an Ambien and have NO idea of what I am talking about!

Funny but very true story. I loved my college roommate Jenny, we were an instant bond, and she was engaged to her highschool sweetheart (who I actually always thought HE was "in the closet"!). After college we lost touch, and I contacted the Alumni association to get her info about 10 years later. Of course they wouldn't give me any info, so they said write a letter (yes, one of those "olde-timey" pen-to-paper things that were popular before the internet or computers) and they would forward it to her. A week or so later I get a call from Jenny screaming with excitement. She was so happy I wrote her.

She had one thing, though, that she said she had to tell me. She was gay. But she started talking very fast and said that she NEVER looked at me "that" way, never watched me as I undressed in the room or when we showered. I told her how disappointed I was, what, was I not pretty enough for her? Why was she discriminating against ME? We laughed pretty hard, and then she told me about "coming out" to her parents. She told her mom first, her mom had suspected but let Jenny figure things out on her own. Then she went into the living room where her dad was. She said "I have something to tell you". He asked what, and she said "I am a lesbian, I like girls". He threw his newspaper in the air and said "holy crap, Jenny, I thought you were going to tell me you were a Republican!!!"!

We stayed in touch and she even came to visit me in St. Louis for a weekend, we had a blast. 4 years ago about this time of year Jenny was diagnosed with bile duct cancer, since it was so rare they didn't find it in time, and Jenny was given one month to live. Her friends from grade school and I helped her and her partner, Lucy, plan her memorial. She didn't want a "send Jenny back to Jay-sus" (insert televangelist voice here) funeral, she wanted a PARTY. And a party is what she got. I couldn't go because of the timing, but I was there in spirit and talking to everyone who was there I knew Jenny would have loved it.

Okay, sorry for the rambling, I just woke up (I KNOW I get a free pass from Senusenu for that at least!!!) and was glad, Senu, that you got to know us a little better, and visa-versa.

Hugs, Michelle

Very moving story, thanks for sharing it. Jenny was VERY lucky to have a friend like you. I'm sorry you lost her.

 

[antiochian]

I really do wish I'd worded the thread title better. Sorry for that. I know that pain, believe me. I have a sister who since I came out to her (as gay) in 1999 as a teen, has refused to accept me. Last year, an uncle who was visiting confronted me about my "sinful" lifestyle. I was devastated, mainly because this was days after my 2-year-old niece's cancer diagnosis, and I was an emotional jumble. (Never mind the fact that said uncle's daughter was far more promiscuous than I could ever hope to be--she's received more "injections" than Joan Rivers' face... Hypocrisy much?) Then there's the pain inflicted by religion. The priests of the Greek Orthodox church told me I had two choices--chastity (basically lifelong loneliness) or hell. It would be enough to make most anyone fall to pieces inside.

I'm better these days, and I've found some amazing friends of all sexual orientations and gender identities that are a bulwark of support. They've helped me heal a lot. Still, I have incredible anger at the church, and at my uncle, and at others who have been quick to point a finger of condemnation when they haven't the fuzziest blessed clue what hell I've been through.

Hope it's okay I shared that. I will say I am so happy that my home state of MN legalized marriage equality. As a scared, lonely teenager in the 90s, I could have never imagined how far we'd come.