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Dead Snake, What's Fair?

Good points. I should give them more info probably. I don't like telling people what to do, but I would like to make sure they know what to do.

Good thread, looks like we have a range of opinions.

I just got done dealing with someone over on ebay. Since I've sold like 10000 things over there I've learned (not that anyone else would learn the same thing) that some people can't be pleased and sometimes it's not worth trying. They can be an upset customer all they want if I know it wasn't my fault. Maybe that sounds harsh, but you REALLY can't help some people and some people REALLY don't deserve it.

I'm not saying that's these people, I haven't really had much interaction from them and still haven't seen any photograph (though maybe that threw a wrench in their "let's tell him it died to get two for one" plan). I doubt they're being deceptive or anything, so I'll see how they respond if they do.

I should add some terms to the site like you say, though this wasn't sold online anyway.
 
cornsnakeforsale_com said:
Good points. I should give them more info probably. I don't like telling people what to do, but I would like to make sure they know what to do.
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I wrote a caresheet for my website covering all aspects of sornsnake care that I could think of, and then asked someone who knew nothing about snakes or reptiles or anything to read it through and ask any questions she would have before keeping a snake as a pet. The only question was what size mouse to feed. So I included the Munson Plan, although I feel like I would really rather revise it down a step.
 
this may be a bit off topic, but my question concerns shipping and handling and who is responsible. So in this case, the snake died after ~ 1 month in the new owners possession. Assuming this wasn't a local deal, if the OP/breeder decides that a replacement animal is warranted, who is responsible for the shipping costs? I was just wondering what peoples' thoughts were on this.
 
Yeah, I would either refund them $30 or offer another snake of that value or close to. UNLESS you really feel they did something wrong. In any case, they would have to prove they didn't do anything wrong in order to demand a refund.

You could do the $30 or cheaper snake just to smooth things over IF you want to..

You have probably already thought of this.. OR you already have it on your site etc... put in detail what situation you would refund under and if a snake dies it is to be proven in no uncertain doubt that it was the breeders fault before a refund can be exchanged... or something to that effect... people will take advantage of you quickly if they can.
 
I personally think that in most cases it should be the buyer that pays or in some cases that the cost should be split. In rare cases I'd say the seller should eat it all, but in cases like that, the seller would have to be so much at fault, that I probably wouldn't accept a replacement animal from them. I feel that it would be entirely based on the individual transaction and what the problem was.
 
germantank22 said:
this may be a bit off topic, but my question concerns shipping and handling and who is responsible. So in this case, the snake died after ~ 1 month in the new owners possession. Assuming this wasn't a local deal, if the OP/breeder decides that a replacement animal is warranted, who is responsible for the shipping costs? I was just wondering what peoples' thoughts were on this.
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That is a good question. I had this happen to me last summer. Guy bought 2 babies from me. Shipped them out with Reptiles Express. Being that the guy live out in the middle of no where they could not get it there in the semi guarantied before 10:30am (UPS and Fedex dont guaranty that if its out in the middle of no where). So the snakes got to hot and were DOA. I had nothing else at the time to replace them with. So I refunded the guys money shipping and all.

So was it just very generous of me to refund the shipping or should I of not offered that or of split it with the buyer????
 
Reptileman81 said:
That is a good question. I had this happen to me last summer. Guy bought 2 babies from me. Shipped them out with Reptiles Express. Being that the guy live out in the middle of no where they could not get it there in the semi guarantied before 10:30am (UPS and Fedex dont guaranty that if its out in the middle of no where). So the snakes got to hot and were DOA. I had nothing else at the time to replace them with. So I refunded the guys money shipping and all.

So was it just very generous of me to refund the shipping or should I of not offered that or of split it with the buyer????
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I hope it wasn't those 2 motleys....
 
Reptileman81 said:
That is a good question. I had this happen to me last summer. Guy bought 2 babies from me. Shipped them out with Reptiles Express. Being that the guy live out in the middle of no where they could not get it there in the semi guarantied before 10:30am (UPS and Fedex dont guaranty that if its out in the middle of no where). So the snakes got to hot and were DOA. I had nothing else at the time to replace them with. So I refunded the guys money shipping and all.

So was it just very generous of me to refund the shipping or should I of not offered that or of split it with the buyer????
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I guess I would have asked him to pick them up, or just not sold him the snakes. Or waited until the temps were more agreeable. But I don't like letting them get on the truck at all, much less riding around all afternoon, too.

I guess the answer depends on if you knew ahead of time that they would not be delivered by 10:30, or 12:00. If you knew, it was risky of you to ship them, and risky of the buyer to accept shipment. If it was a delay that was unforeseen by either of you, then I think it was generous, but right.
 
starsevol said:
I hope it wasn't those 2 motleys....
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You mean the Ghost Motleys. If so no I still have them. It was Amel Motleys.

Nanci said:
I guess I would have asked him to pick them up, or just not sold him the snakes. Or waited until the temps were more agreeable. But I don't like letting them get on the truck at all, much less riding around all afternoon, too.

I guess the answer depends on if you knew ahead of time that they would not be delivered by 10:30, or 12:00. If you knew, it was risky of you to ship them, and risky of the buyer to accept shipment. If it was a delay that was unforeseen by either of you, then I think it was generous, but right.
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Unfortunately no I did not know a head of time that he was out in the boonies so to speak. The snakes did not arrive until just after 4pm. They were DOA. The box was not damaged and the inside was not hot. So only thing I can figure is lack of air or just they fact they were in a bumpy loud truck all day. Needless to say I did refund the money all but what Paypal took from the transaction.
 
Hmm this makes me think more. Just a few weeks ago I was going to sell three of my turtles to a guy on Fauna. He took forever to reply about them. When I finally got the shipping around and information....he wouldn't answer. I quickly got my refund on shipping and told him I wasn't selling because his lack of communication which led me to think he wouldn't care for them. Just three days ago one of the turtles I was going to sell him died. It shows how quickly things happen.

IMO I think you should be getting communication a lot faster than what you are. This shows how dedicated the buyer/seller is. You should also get pictures of set up and snake. Ask them everything on spot about what the temp was..etc...Investigate.

As a seller I don't know if I would refund something that was healthy. It could have been many things the buyer did. Like...Did they wait a week to feed and handle? Did they make sure the mice were the right size and not cold? Did they wait to handle after feedings? Did they cause it to regurgate??? Did they even pay attention to it?

As a buyer I would be upset but I would also be very understanding. I would want a new snake only if I learned from my mistakes. I could ask for a new snake but atleast pay for some of it....because in this case..What if the next one dies? Are they going to keep coming back for free?

You learn from your mistakes...that is how you become an experienced keeper.
 
That's really sad, Josh. This is how I covered that situation in my terms. I do a lot of checking on the actual FedEx destination, too. I either call, or have a FedEx rep call, or have the buyer go in, just to make sure they really DO accept live animals. And I want them going to the main facility itself, if there is one within a reasonable distance- say 30 miles.

1) An adult must be present to receive the shipment on the first delivery attempt.

All shipments are sent “signature required,” no exceptions. This is a contractual obligation of all FedEx certified live reptile shippers. I always recommend the shipment be sent “hold for pickup” to the nearest FedEx Staffed Center. Shipments held for pickup in this manner will be guaranteed live delivery by SnickerSnakes, even if picked up later in the day. These shipments are available much earlier than those sent out on the truck! Please check your FedEx preferences prior to arranging shipment because generally they will just leave a package, potentially without even
knocking, if they have your signature on file. My shipping agreement requires you to physically receive and sign for the snake as soon as it gets off the truck.

2) The forecast daily high temperature for your location on the delivery date must be in the 45°F to 90°F range. The forecast daily low temperature in your location must be above 45°F.

No guarantees are provided if the forecast daily high is outside the 45°F to 90°F range. You will need to assist me in scheduling your shipment during periods of extreme weather. While delays in scheduling a shipment may seem unbearable, they are nothing compared to opening a box containing a prized baby snake only to find it dead. For areas where temperatures outside this range are expected, I may, based upon the weather forecast, allow the shipment be sent “hold for pickup” to the nearest FedEx Staffed Center.

3) The FedEx expected arrival time for the delivery location must be listed as between 8:00AM and 12:00PM (Noon).

Actual time of arrival varies by location, but is by 10:30AM or 12:00PM (Noon) in most areas. Shipments to rural locations, listed as by 4:30PM expected arrival times, spend excessive time on delivery trucks and run a higher risk of death to the snake. For areas where later delivery times are the norm, SnickerSnakes will require the shipment to be sent “hold for pickup” to the nearest FedEx Staffed Center.

If you, or anyone, would like to hear how I would handle a particular shipping weather situation, based on what I have gleaned from hours of questioning Carol, Kathy, and primarily Zorro, PM me. I'll tell you how I have packed the snakes for the weather. I am a huge believer in using those big gel packs as heat sinks. The cost is based more on the dimensions of the box than the weight, so you can often pop in one of those big two pound packs and not have any increase in price at all. But I'd rather have a shipment cost $75 and me suck up the cost than spend a day worrying about them making it.

I had a situation last year, in which I was so worried about the seller shipping the snakes safely to me (for temps) that I mailed out a complete shipping box to that person, with ice packs, labels, _everything_, all he had to do was put the snakes in. And then he didn't even use most of the cold packs!! But the snakes were fine, luckily.
 
I do offer a short term guarantee and in a case like this I would replace the snake. I'd sure be wondering why a healthy eating hatchling died so quickly and my main suspect would be that the box got too hot or cold in transit.
I really should work on my page of terms and add some language about requiring a hold at fed ex in rural areas or waiving the guarantee, I hate it when I know a snake will be in a fed ex truck for a while. I try to talk almost everyone I ship to into holding at fed ex LOL
 
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I have become quite firm on where a package is delivered and picked up, and I can use the FedEx regulations to back my decisions up as they require, per our certification, that the package be shipped to a business address (ie: a commercial address), which means, NO residential delivery (a home business does not count). Most businesses have a delivery time by 10:30am/Noon and have a person available to accept delivery. Otherwise, the package must be held for pickup at a staffed FedEx location.

As for my refund/replacement policy, I have a variety of guarantees, depending upon the hatchling/snake itself. Out of eggs have no guarantee beyond live delivery, some hatchlings, such as sporadic feeders or hatchlings that started out as a problem but have come around may only get a 15 day guarantee, while the perfect hatchlings get a 30 day guarantee. There have been some instances where I won't stick to the guarantee and at least give a partial refund if something happens. I have one customer that received some help on a vet bill and will receive a replacement hatchling of equal or greater value (once I have one, and she may actually get more than one) due to all the trouble she's had with my hatchlings.

I have had my share of hatchlings, purchased from very reputable breeders, that have died close to the end of the guarantee period or a few months after, some that were supposed good feeders that refused everything I offer, and even adults that just die from unknown causes before they even come out of quarantine. Most of the time, I just chalk it up to "S-it happens", and only twice did I mention anything to the breeder I purchased the snake from. In both of those cases, I either received a refund or replacement snakes. And in the case of the replacement snakes, since those replacements were that breeders keepers from that year, I will offer that breeder a "pick of the clutch" in return.
 
Update:

Nothing. Asked them some questions over email about how they cared for it and haven't heard anything. Maybe their care wasn't so good after all.
 
cornsnakeforsale_com said:
Update:

Nothing. Asked them some questions over email about how they cared for it and haven't heard anything. Maybe their care wasn't so good after all.
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Did we get ahold of the same buyer!??? Wow the one I was going to sell my turtles to took 3 days to answer a simple question.

I really don't think someone who won't take the time to answer won't take the time to care. No snake for them.
 
this is my experience: i bought my first snake at a shop, and after 3 days i started noticing clicks and signs of RI.. i told the shop and they tried to reassure me it was nothing.. i was totally new to snakes so i hoped they were right just to discover later that it was what i thought it was: RI (with bubbles and everything)..

they replaced the snake with a new one and guess what.. same exact problem.. so again.. i got a replacement (but they would still think it was me being too anxious and stuff)..

the replacement (my actual corn) guess what? had mites......... but i didnt ask for a replacement cause i was sick of it and took care of the problem.. but i had to tell the shop.

i guess if you notice health issues right away, it's your right to ask for a new healthy snake... especially where i live where a ghost corn is sold at 140€ (around 200$), which is crazy
 
@Skully23, Oh I hope it's not the same buyer, their communication is lousy.
@palmiro, That's too bad that you had such bad luck. Lots of stores really don't know how to (or choose not to) care for their animals very well.

UPDATE: Decided to give them a replacement snake as it seems they did everything right (from what they were telling me anyway). We split the loss in a way since I gave them a less expensive one as a replacement. Of course, wouldn't you know it, they took my last Abbott's Okeetee and someone called 45 minutes later wanting to buy it!

Thanks for the advice by the way.
 
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