Fed ex getting more expensive

[Nanci]

Well, I recently received a box that the Fed Ex guy was tossing and twirling to find the bar code- and it was clearly marked This Side Up. I went screaming out to him "There's live animals in there!!!" I'm glad you guys feel you can stand on and bowl with your packaging!!!!

 

[Jrgh17]

So to those who say that shipping in a small box is irresponsible: Are you imply that Kathy Love is irresponsible, cutting costs on shipping, and doesn't care about her animals? Because the shipment I received from her was in a small box.

 

[starsevol]

Yup, the snakes I've gotten from Kathy were in a small box.
They are doing fine.
The ones I got from Dean, but shipped by Joe Cala also came in a small box.
They are doing wonderfully.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Whoa. I see this going in the wrong direction fast.

I understand KJUN's comments about the heat packs making the inside of a box hotter then when in a larger box (though I think saying shipping in smaller boxes is irresponsible is going a bit over board). It does make sense. However, a heat pack is not required every time when shipping...So the point is moot in that effect. However when using a heat pack in the smaller boxes, I imagine if one paid attention to the temperatures at the ship from, ship to and layover locations...Overheating due to heat packs could very well be prevented.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

You could also argue that shipping during temp extremes where a heat or cold pack is needed is irresponsible... but people do it anyway. (I'm including myself) I didn't anticipate this thread turning into a discussion over the right size box to use. I of course have no control over what others post here, but would like this thread to remain somewhat civil as I think there is some very useful info here for new and less experienced shippers like myself

 

[KJUN]

Funny, I don't see where someone called it irresponsible. If I missed it before Jrgh17 used the word, I'm sorry. I don't believe I used it. If I did, then I'll state I used a poor choice of words.

It seems that this started because I dared to have stipulations on who I send money to....and someone that uses tiny boxes and over-charges me for it does not get my money again. Exactly why my choice against getting over-charged (whether they bank the difference or just don't bother shipping from a FedEx staffed office is irrelevant) for small boxes bothered someone else so much eludes me.

KJ

 

[Jrgh17]

"Irresponsible" was my word. If something is risky for the animal, I think it's a fair word to use to describe the behavior.

I think it's really risky to try to save money any way that can put a snake in danger... Risky to the snake, risky to your reputation. I am still just starting out, so I have shipped maybe half a dozen packages so far, and there is NO way I would screw everything up by cutting corners with shipping.

I use 3 box sizes, and I could save a lot of money going with a "tiny" box, but I won't do it. Too risky. Too bad I'm not a gambler since it would save me a lot of money.....lol. I get VERY irate when I get a $1500 snake shippd to me for $65 extra and it arrives in a 7x7x6 inch box. When that happens, I put that breeder on a "Never Buy" list. Too risky. That's just me, though. Of course, I've had breeders (some post here....lol) use a large box with no insulation and kill snakes during shipping, too. That's also bad.

I'm not starting a fight. I'm asking a direct (and probably uncomfortable, yet honest) question. Is Kathy Love on your "never buy" list because she uses the 7x7x6 box size? Do you consider her to be risking the lives of her animals?

 

[Jrgh17]

By the way, I actually believe this topic is very valid to the thread. Considering prices are going up, as a buyer, I want to save money on shipping. There comes a point when getting a $50 snake WITH shipping just gets ridiculous. Shipping costs are probably not going to go down (ever lol), so saving at least some money is important. :shrugs:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Since one of those quotes was mine I feel I should answer you. Kathy Love is NOT on my 'never buy' list, though I have yet to purchase an animal from her, key word is yet. I really like the Naples Ghosts she produces and will hopefully add some to my collection at some point. I never mentioned box size in my definition of cutting corners so let me specify that I have recieved packages I was not happy with because they were obviously home made, lacked cool packs in the middle of the summer, or were sent standard instead of priority overnight. All the people who shipped these to me are now on my never buy list but I repeat Kathy Love is not one of them.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Just thought I would also say I have to use up like 7 more of the 12 x 9 boxes before I order any more. But, I would really hope if somebody wanted a certain type of box they would let me know beforehand, it's easier to follow instructions than read minds.

 

[kathylove]

It is true that the larger a box is, the longer it will take to heat up or cool off. But everything we do has a risk vs. benefit ratio that we have to balance as best we can. Otherwise, I would use a giant tropical fish box for one hatchling, even though it would cost almost $100 to ship. But it would be safer than a medium size box. And I think that a small box CAN be as ALMOST as safe as a medium box, depending on how / when it is used and how it is packed.

I look at the high and low temps in Memphis and the destination city, taking into account my own temps (I drive down to the FedEx office just before they close, so my temps are not as important as the others). And I take into account where it will be delivered (I try to encourage my customers to pick up at the FedEx office in the morning for the safest option) and the time it is likely to be delivered or picked up. After taking all of this info into account, I use my best judgment based on my experience as to whether it needs a heat or cold pack and what size box it needs. With corns, I can err on the side of being a little cool, rather than too warm. So I often don't need a heat pack when it will be picked up at FedEx and the temps are not TOO extreme. When shipping boas or pythons, it is riskier, since they can't be exposed to chilly temps as corns can. So I more often have to require my boa / python customers to pay for a larger box, compared to those buying one or two hatchling corns.

It is true that FedEx COULD totally mess up and send them to the wrong state, or who knows where? When that has happened (rarely), my packing has usually withstood the test. There have been a couple of times when NOTHING could have withstood their "test".

In short, I feel that an experienced shipper who is very careful can quite safely use small boxes in many (not all) cases when shipping just one or two baby corns. But it takes experience, time, and care to know which times are the wrong times to go for the small boxes. Shipping is like a whole separate business, and it is not easy to figure out the cheapest way that is still safe. For those just beginning to ship, I would suggest the extra safety of a bigger box even when not totally necessary. But I wouldn't make a blanket statement against small boxes in all cases.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

The one too-small box I have ever gotten was more like 5 X 5 X 3, was obviously recycled, had foam cut to size for lining, and was sent by UPS (not exactly kosher IMO because their policy is no shipping snakes) and had a supposedly female snake inside which turned out to be a male. I do think after reading people's input in this thread that I would have concerns about a smaller box with a heat pack inside, but I'd tell the shipper that I wanted them to send a bigger box in this case. BTW last year I sent a large-ish shipment to Minnesota it was cold there and I put a small insulated box inside a large insulated box with 2 heat packs. Buyer was grateful, snakes were fine, but fed ex was $90+. (It was worth it at this point in my career because protecting my reputation was worth losing a little money.) On the bright side, I'm out of snakes until 08's hatch so I won't have to worry for a while about it! Thanks Kathy...

 

[KJUN]

In short, I feel that an experienced shipper who is very careful can quite safely use small boxes in many (not all) cases when shipping just one or two baby corns. But it takes experience, time, and care to know which times are the wrong times to go for the small boxes. Shipping is like a whole separate business, and it is not easy to figure out the cheapest way that is still safe. For those just beginning to ship, I would suggest the extra safety of a bigger box even when not totally necessary. But I wouldn't make a blanket statement against small boxes in all cases.

Thank you, Kathy. That's the best way of saying it. I don't think this thread should have sunk into using your - or ANYONE'S - specific name. Of course, I don't think I should have been challenged about where I spend my money by another poster, either......lol.



For the record to everyone else, I'd buy from Kathy or many of the other experienced sellers with GOOD reputations even if they used a small box as long as conditions are right by my evaluation, too. If I was charged twice the reasonable cost for that shipment in that box size, I would still be upset and bring my business elsewhere. I NEVER had Kathy - or anyone else that I've known to post on this forum AT ALL! - in mind in ANY of my posts here. Heck, the person I had in mind doesn't even breed cornsnakes to the best of my knowledge! That order dealt with a completely different genus...... Geez (again).....lol.

 

[Jrgh17]

The one too-small box I have ever gotten was more like 5 X 5 X 3, was obviously recycled, had foam cut to size for lining, and was sent by UPS (not exactly kosher IMO because their policy is no shipping snakes) and had a supposedly female snake inside which turned out to be a male. I do think after reading people's input in this thread that I would have concerns about a smaller box with a heat pack inside, but I'd tell the shipper that I wanted them to send a bigger box in this case. BTW last year I sent a large shipment to Minnesota it was cold there and I put a small insulated box inside a large insulated box with 2 heat packs. Buyer was grateful, snakes were fine, but fed ex was $90+. (It was worth it at this point in my career because protecting my reputation was worth losing a little money.) On the bright side, I'm out of snakes until 08's hatch so I won't have to worry for a while about it! Thanks Kathy...

Do you mean USPS Jen?

Edit: Nevermind. I translated UPS to FedEx in my head. Doh.

 

[KJUN]

Do you mean USPS Jen?

USPS has a "law" against shipping snakes. UPS, last time I talked to them, leaves it up to the drop-off location to decide if they will allow snakes from a shipper. Forget all the other people it goes through - only the drop-off location gets to make the decision. In other words, I may be able to receive snakes in Smallville, USA, via UPS but not be able to ship them out of the SAME office that delivers them. I don't think that is fair, and it is one of the MANY reasons I will cut off my own toe before I use UPS to ship anything. I frequently won't even buy from a company that uses UPS (non-snake items) unless I don't have a reasonable alternative. As far as snakes, I've passed on purchases that would have been shipped via UPS, but that is pretty rare. Live animals frequently don't have an alternative like ther eis with plants, firearm supplies, etc. Snakes for USPS? When I have received snakes that way, it happened without my knowledge, and I reported it immediately. Every time.

Sorry, this is off topic, and I do NOT know what Jen meant. I just figured I'd elucidate a little on (1) what I've been told by UPS and (2) what the USPS laws state. Some people might be interested.

DISCLAIMER: UPS often tells a different story each time you call, so who knows WHAT the "official policy" is today. This is another reason to use FedEx over UPS.....lol. DHL/Airorne did that stuff a few years ago where they'd leave a snake in Memphis (when they discovered it!) that was shipped from Florida to kalifornia and tell the owner to "come get it because we don't ship snakes." In other words, they didn't mind killing the snake or doing that to their customers. Heck, they could have returned the snake to the shipper and not refunded the monies and been in the right in my book. That crap they DID do put a horrible taste in my mouth, though.

I just wish USPS had better laws......
KJ

 

[Joejr14]

Thank you, Kathy. That's the best way of saying it. I don't think this thread should have sunk into using your - or ANYONE'S - specific name. Of course, I don't think I should have been challenged about where I spend my money by another poster, either......lol.

Where did I challenge you in regards to where you spend your money? I didn't. I simply asked what the problem was in regards to sending snakes out in a 7x7x6 box---which to my knowledge you haven't had a real answer for.

Is the issue the smaller box, or the fact that the horrible person who shipped it to you overcharged you (in your opinion) for the cost of the shipment?

Or is it both?

Would you have an issue if you got a well packed shipment in a 7x7x6 box and were charged appropriately? Or would that be an issue because in your words "Too bad I'm not a gambler since it would save me a lot of money"?

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I meant UPS (The brown trucks)
I thought KJUN did answer the question about the box size and his concern was the fact a heat pack could overheat a box that small, unless I'm completely missing something.
We all have a choice on who we buy from. I should add that one of my criteria aside from shipping methods would be how the person seems to treat others, especially on a public forum like this. I will ask again that we please try to keep this civil..

 

[Corny Noob]

I would just like to add my own personal experience concerning a 7x7x6 box.
It had a heat pack in it, but the box was properly insulated with foam core, the snake was then wrapped several times in paper and the heat pack was attached to the top peice of foam so that it wouldn't even come in contact with the inside of the box.
The snake was fine, not to hot not to cold just perfect.

Packing just needs to be done right is all, but that can be said for any situation under the sun :shrugs:

 

[Jrgh17]

I will ask again that we please try to keep this civil..

I guess I'm missing the point where this isn't civil? I'm not saying it's the most friendly of chats, but most discussions concerning strong opinions aren't. If someone says that I am risking the health of an animal, and will not buy from me due to my practices, I would like a full explanation of their thought process and a chance to defend myself. I don't think that's an unfair expectation.

 

[Joejr14]

I meant UPS (The brown trucks)
I thought KJUN did answer the question about the box size and his concern was the fact a heat pack could overheat a box that small, unless I'm completely missing something.
We all have a choice on who we buy from. I should add that one of my criteria aside from shipping methods would be how the person seems to treat others, especially on a public forum like this. I will ask again that we please try to keep this civil..

Exactly. We all can choose who we buy from. KJ made a comment regarding box size so I inquired about his feelings on the matter. At no point in this discussion has anything become 'uncivilized'. Just because we're discussing the matter doesn't mean anyone is being mean or rude.

And just because someone enjoy discussion on a public forum, whether it be challenging discussion or not---doesn't reflect how they treat others. It would be one thing if I was being belligerent in my discussion or questioning, but I am not and nobody else here is.

Of course all one would have to do to find out how a seller treats other and customers would be to ask previous ones. I'm sure many can tell you about well shipped packages, healthy snakes, and normally a freebie or two in accompaniment.