Finally- my first corn!

[Oscarsdad]

Just brought "her"(not sexed yet) home a couple of hours ago and I'm already in love.And she's starting out right-already been petted by 2 small kids. She was described as a lavender. As described by the woman who gave her to me her mother was an albino and her dad a fancy. She said that they ( she had 11) have eaten twice and are due for a feeding.

Which brings me around to my question. I need some suggestions on where to get some mice. I have a 5' rat snake that needs to eat too. Since this nice lady gave me this snake and has 10 more she's trying to sell, I thought I could give her some of the pinkies.She also has 3 adult corns (above +1 lav.) so I was thinking we could share adult mice.I've never bought them online before so I'm open to suggestions.

You can post here if appropriate or PM me.

 

[Nanci]

How close are you to wherever in TX The Big Cheese is? I love them. They have super-cheap shipping, too, so even if you had to ship, it would be reasonable.

They are in Fort Worth!!!

 

[Oscarsdad]

Thanks Nanci-
I probably can't WALK there but I'm sure I can get there PDQ in my truck. The logistics of getting the mice to the lady are a little tougher- she's 25-30 miles away, but it doesn't take that long to get there. But since her daughter works at the vets (close) I figure I can take them there and her daughter can put them in the vets frezzer and deliver at her convenience.

If it will be awhile, I'll deliver while she still has the babies.

 

[The Cat]

What's a fancy corn? And I'm assuming albino is like, a snow or an amel.

Can we see pics? Please? Is she cute?

 

[Oscarsdad]

I'm going to try and post a pic:

 

[Oscarsdad]

Argh- wouldn't you know it- this little booger is giving me a hard time. The lady that gave me her showed me how to feed it. "Grab it behind the head"...she touches it about 3 times on the nose, it's mouth flies wide open. ..." and stick in the pinky"......

I've just had it out- slapping it around like the Gestapo at an interrogation and all it does is squirm! Oh well- I'll try taking it out again in a little while. ......

 

[The Cat]

Woah! What is that? It's beautiful! It's adorable!

 

[Oscarsdad]

What's a fancy corn? And I'm assuming albino is like, a snow or an amel.

Can we see pics? Please? Is she cute?

She probably knew the proper terms for them but called them that for my benefit.I'd say the albino was probably an amel and what she called fancy might be a striped.I'm going to surf the site a bit to find the corns that look like them and post back. I've seen pictures of both of them here before, but I don't remember the names.

Thanks, I think she's adorable and believe it or not, that picture doesn't do her justice. In person, in the sunlight, her colors are strikingl.

 

[The Cat]

The honey-brown in her bands are so pretty!

 

[Oscarsdad]

I'm going to try and post some pictures off the net. One is a snow. She said it was an albino but it looked a whole lot like this snow. I'm kicking myself for not snapping some pictures with my phone, but I was pretty pumped to get that baby. Oh yeah- mom and dad live together, they grew up together and get along perfectly- pretty cool.Well the snow download failed but in the CS cornsnake guide here there are some pictures of snows under the Amelanistic Anerythristic thread.I'd describe her as a bubble gum.

 

[HerpsOfNM]

that looks like it might be a caramel corn (your baby).

 

[Shiari]

Argh- wouldn't you know it- this little booger is giving me a hard time. The lady that gave me her showed me how to feed it. "Grab it behind the head"...she touches it about 3 times on the nose, it's mouth flies wide open. ..." and stick in the pinky"......

That is NOT how you feed a baby corn snake! D: That's a way to force-feed.

Leave her alone for 4 or 5 days, then stick her in a small container, with airholes, and the pinky and leave her there overnight.

 

[Oscarsdad]

That is NOT how you feed a baby corn snake! D: That's a way to force-feed.

Leave her alone for 4 or 5 days, then stick her in a small container, with airholes, and the pinky and leave her there overnight.

That was the first thing I tried. She was in the tub I got her with, where she has lived her whole life (essentially a feeding tub). I didn't leave it overnight, but it was a good 5 hours.I then tried dangling it in front of her, but she has almost no tendency for defensive behavior. She acts more like a rough earth snake than a corn. So she ran from it and tried to get under the paper towel in her tub. She must have missed school the day they were teaching "S" because she doesn't know that pose but I guess she was there when they taught "U".

So tapping her in the tub wasn't going to work (IDK- I may have even tried It once)..So I took her out and held her loosely towards the tail end and tapped the side of her mouth with the red then moved the red right in front of her nose (back about an inch) as has happened to me before with other snakes she goes around the red and hits my fingers instead. Even if she had hit the red, I don't know if it would have done any good because she barely opened her mouth and barely made contact. (What I call a love tap). She did it again the second time I tried then she had had enough of that game and just turned her head away from it like it was a soy burger.

At this point I figured since she had already been fed that way twice, that might just be the simplest thing to do and work on it the next feeding. IDK- I guess there is one other possibility that may have contributed to her actions: there was a severe thunderstorm moving in- whether that had any effect or not is beyond my knowledge. I do know that some animals can sense the weather and it affects their actions.

I have a pond in my backyard. The weather forecast will call for rain, all the conditions will be there, but the toads are nowhere to be found. It doesn't rain or maybe a little but the main storm bypasses me. Another time the forecast will call for rain. The night before (while there is no sign of rain and the front is miles away and the rain is 12-24hrs away, the toads will come out of everywhere and have a huge all-night orgy. Without fail, it will pour the next day (or sometimes the day after!) Granted- their survival as a species is tied into this ability as they normally breed in large puddles that dry up so there are no fish-but it still amazes me.

 

[Oscarsdad]

Nanci-

Thanks again for turning me on to The Big Cheese. It's 12 miles and 20min. from my house. I also saw their prices and that'll work. It's really going to help out the lady I got the snake from. She lives like 20 miles west of me. She's been buying her feeders from a guy in Dallas-@40 miles east of me. From what I remember her telling me, the prices are very comparable. Certainly not enough difference to offset the gas and time for an extra 80 miles.

 

[Nanci]

She looks like a caramel to me, too. Definitely not lavender!

 

[Oscarsdad]

She looks like a caramel to me, too. Definitely not lavender!

Yes-That's why I said "described to me as" and that was by her daughter. The snakes mother kinda had a lavender pattern faintly visible under all that bubble gum. She called it an albino but I'm pretty sure it didn't have pink eyes and it looked an awful lot like a snow does. Also looked a lot like a bubble gum rat snake color-wise. I couldn't find an example of the father on this site but Googling up fancy corn snake yeilded the pic I posted which looked a lot like him. Apparently the fancy term is a PetSmart thing which makes sense, as they sell "fancy mice" and pass that off as a breed.

IDK- what do you get when you cross those two? I was looking at some caramels here trying to find a pick of the male, but didn't really see any that looked that much like either of them. But IDK,-sure wished I had snapped a picture of those 2 instead of relying on the memory of a quick look.

I was hoping someone here could shed some light. ....

 

[HerpsOfNM]

... and it looked an awful lot like a snow does. Also looked a lot like a bubble gum rat snake color-wise.

Snow is an albino (=amelanistic) anerythristic corn snake. Snows lack the ability to produce both melanin (=brown and/or black pigment, which = albinism) and erythrin (=red and orange pigment), resulting in a snake that for the most part is basically white on white (VERY vague description of coloration potential!). What use to be considered "high quality" snows were animals that had very little to no salmon/orange or yellow coloration. It's been shown and tested that yellow and salmon/orange pigment development is typically due to carotenoids from prey items depositing within epidermal cell structures. This in turn could yield a "bubble-gum" type appearance.

I couldn't find an example of the father on this site but Googling up fancy corn snake yeilded the pic I posted which looked a lot like him. Apparently the fancy term is a PetSmart thing which makes sense, as they sell "fancy mice" and pass that off as a breed.

I'll quote myself here....

I've seen:

Snow
Snow stripe (purchased it)
Snow motley (purchased it)
Anery type a
Albino
Albino motley
Motley
Caramel
Caramel motley
Normal
Normal on verge of okeetee ( I refuse to call it okeetee, unless our vendor labels as such)
Bloodred / diffused
Hypos
And I've heard of 1 butter

That is what I've seen come in in 2.5 years working for PetSmart here in Albuquerque.

Labeling wise corporate has restructured reptiles... Corn either come in as assorted (normals, albinos, or anery) and fancy (anything else Lasco sends which they are great so far about labeling)

Shaggy,

My best recommendation is to visit each PetSmart and find out who cares for the reptiles. At my store I'm the Pet Care Lead (quasi Pet Care Assistant Manager) and oversee all the sections, with 1 of my associates in charge of each section. Some stores it can be any and all associates in charge of all sections and thus consistency can be lacking. I'd also ask to see the feed charts. Policy is to have them on all snakes, stating when they arrived and what species/morph they are and are to be given to the Pet Parent (=customer) when a snake is sold. The vendors we have supplying my store with recent corns is great about labeling what exactly the corns are, be they the "assorted corns" or the "fancy corns". HOWEVER, a recent shipment that had an assorted corn labeled as a black corn (anerythristic) is actually a ghost (hypomelanistic anerythristic).

Assorted corns =
- albino, anerythritic (black corn), and normal

Fancy corns =
- motley (albino, snow, or normal), snow, striped (albino or snow), caramel, and diffused (labeled bloodred)

These are what I've seen in my area. I've also seen normal corns, under assorted, come in as hypos too.

Fancy is PetSmart's term for any corn snake a given store is sent that isn't normal, albino, or anerythristic. Normal, albino, and anerythristic corns are now lumped under the sale term "assorted". Fancy, thus far that I've seen out here in NM has included:

snow
striped snow
motley snow
caramel
bloodred
motley
albino motley
ghost
ghost bloodred (my store got this in as a ghost, but had clear diffused blotch patterning and the neat spotted head pattern, also came in with an unpleasant head tilt and when excited would stargaze)
hypo (I've seen hypos come in labeled as either fancy and normal corns)

Our store's vendor (Lasco, aka Ty Park) is pretty good about labeling what they send fancy corn wise. At my store we have a dry erase board which I update for each herp shipment, where I state what each fancy anything (we get "fancy" corns, beardies, and leos) truly is. Since we also print out a snake feed chart for every snake, I also make certain I label what the snake morph is to avoid any confusion. This is mainly to avoid selling regular/assorted pets as fancy or vice versa. Example: 3 years ago a Pet Care associate sold a jumbo albino leopard gecko ($99.99) as a jumbo normal leopard gecko ($79.99). Management wasn't happy.

Nothing really else to tell. Care is no different than any other corn snake.

IDK- what do you get when you cross those two? I was looking at some caramels here trying to find a pick of the male, but didn't really see any that looked that much like either of them. But IDK,-sure wished I had snapped a picture of those 2 instead of relying on the memory of a quick look.

I was hoping someone here could shed some light. ....

As I mentioned in post #11 above, it looks like you might very well have a caramel corn. The dead give away is the yellow background color coming in and the brown blotches. I said might as white balance could be off in the photo, which can cause colors to be inaccurate. BUT, I'd be pretty comfortable calling it a caramel. As for why it looks like neither parent.....genetics. Possible parent combinations (that you've at least eluded too)that could have resulted in caramel offspring:

mom is a "caramel snow" but the anerythristic trait in snow should block the caramel mutation. and dad was heterozygous for caramel.

both mom and dad were heterozygous for caramel.

mom is heterozygous for caramel and dad was some sort of caramel combination (without seeing dad, who knows).

And to spite myself...

TL; DR .

 

[Oscarsdad]

Snow is an albino (=amelanistic) anerythristic corn snake. Snows lack the ability to produce both melanin (=brown and/or black pigment, which = albinism) and erythrin (=red and orange pigment), resulting in a snake that for the most part is basically white on white (VERY vague description of coloration potential!). What use to be considered "high quality" snows were animals that had very little to no salmon/orange or yellow coloration. It's been shown and tested that yellow and salmon/orange pigment development is typically due to carotenoids from prey items depositing within epidermal cell structures. This in turn could yield a "bubble-gum" type appearance.



I'll quote myself here....









As I mentioned in post #11 above, it looks like you might very well have a caramel corn. The dead give away is the yellow background color coming in and the brown blotches. I said might as white balance could be off in the photo, which can cause colors to be inaccurate. BUT, I'd be pretty comfortable calling it a caramel. As for why it looks like neither parent.....genetics. Possible parent combinations (that you've at least eluded too)that could have resulted in caramel offspring:

mom is a "caramel snow" but the anerythristic trait in snow should block the caramel mutation. and dad was heterozygous for caramel.

both mom and dad were heterozygous for caramel.

mom is heterozygous for caramel and dad was some sort of caramel combination (without seeing dad, who knows).

And to spite myself...

Well- I'm planning on trying to get pictures of both of them, but in the meantime, the picture on page one of this thread is as close as I can get through memory and Google.

 

[Oscarsdad]

I don't know what to think. I keep getting advice to let this snake "settle in" for a week to ten days before feeding. I just want to make sure that the situation is clear. This snake hasn't eaten in over 2 weeks. Waiting another 7-10 days would mean a 6 week old snake would have not been fed in close to a month.

She is in the container she has been in since she was born. I don't have to disturb her or move her to drop a pinky in her tub. Right now she is chilling in between the layers of the folded paper towel in the bottom of her tub.I only check on her twice a day, I just look in the Tupperware and make sure she has water and isn't laying upside down!!

 

[chris68]

OscarD for some perspective. I just had a baby hold out eat for the first time that hatched in the middle of July. 4 weeks is not too long. Stress kills more baby corns than anything. If it's settled into it's enclosure, and the enclosure is set up even half@ssed right (not saying yours is, just in general) it will eat, if it is secure in it's surroundings and otherwise healthy.

And I just reread this thread. It sounds like the breeder was "slap teasing" it to eat. Right off the bat to me that sez they weren't eating on their own. Or she is into making life harder than it should be if they do eat on their own. Getting your first corn that isn't feeding on it's own is a hard row to hoe to start out. Fwiw i don't do any of that, never have. When babies hatch out here they either eat on their own or they don't. I do give them a long(er time than I probably should) time to get started, and I will use live, or thawed pinkie heads, to get them started. But if they don't eat on their own, more times than not they'll never thrive. There are folks on here who are great with nonfeeders, and there are a dozen or more tips and tricks they (and I) have used, but jmho a snake you have to make eat is not one I'd keep, or sell....