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I'm curious...

I know that overall the fight for resources is getting harder, with audits to measure the value for money each hospital and each department is giving, but there really aren't limits on what will be spent on each individual's care here. And with the duty of care involving the medical and nursing teams directly I don't see how any faceless official could be part of the decision making under our system in an individual's care. Any times that budget cuts threaten services there is lobbying until the funding is given!
 
diamondlil said:
I know that overall the fight for resources is getting harder, with audits to measure the value for money each hospital and each department is giving, but there really aren't limits on what will be spent on each individual's care here. And with the duty of care involving the medical and nursing teams directly I don't see how any faceless official could be part of the decision making under our system in an individual's care. Any times that budget cuts threaten services there is lobbying until the funding is given!
Click to expand...

The thing is that we are not talking about the NHS that is used in the UK. We are talking about the plan, that has been proposed here in the US.

For some reason, our government likes to have it's nose in our business. I don't want them in my business. I also, do not want them, or someone appointed by them, making decisions that should be left up to myself and/or my doctor.

Wayne
 
But I thought the whole point was to create an American version of the NHS, with taxes to provide free-at-point-of-care services for all?
 
I am ready to sign up today ... IF ... EVERYONE must participate and nobody gets any presidence or special treatment. And by everyone I mean from Obama himself on down. If he and his family and ALL gov officials go on the end of the waiting lists like everyone else and get the same care as everyone else and can't opt out like everyone else, I'm in!

'Sorry Mr. president we have thirty homeless guys and three hundred illegal immigrants ahead of you on the list. We'll take care of your tumor in 90 days. Please come back then. Thank you and have a nice day!'
 
tsst said:
'Sorry Mr. president we have thirty homeless guys and three hundred illegal immigrants ahead of you on the list. We'll take care of your tumor in 90 days. Please come back then. Thank you and have a nice day!'
[/SIZE] [/SIZE]
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The system is already paying for these people in the ER. I've not heard of people being turned away from emergency care in the US, so your taxes are already going to care for homeless and illegals.

The only way to have a system in which you only pay your own way is the turn away anyone that shows up in the ER without proof of coverage or payment. So far as I know the only person who I think would advocate that is KJUN, most everyone else is a lot more reasonable in these threads.

But that's the most expensive way to care for the people who can't afford coverage. Preventative care is a lot cheaper than emergency care.
 
diamondlil said:
But I thought the whole point was to create an American version of the NHS, with taxes to provide free-at-point-of-care services for all?
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I don't want that. I want to get what I pay for. I don't believe it is possible to make my personal health care better.

If everyone is all worried about people who aren't covered, have some sort of basic system for them. I like my deluxe, on-demand care.

That is what I went to college for, and worked so hard to get, a job with BENEFITS including excellent health care. If people are too lazy to do that...then I guess they get the basic package!
 
Nova_C said:
The system is already paying for these people in the ER. I've not heard of people being turned away from emergency care in the US, so your taxes are already going to care for homeless and illegals.

The only way to have a system in which you only pay your own way is the turn away anyone that shows up in the ER without proof of coverage or payment. So far as I know the only person who I think would advocate that is KJUN, most everyone else is a lot more reasonable in these threads.

But that's the most expensive way to care for the people who can't afford coverage. Preventative care is a lot cheaper than emergency care.
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Re-read the post. The point was if those in power were made to deal with the UHC issues the same as the rest of us, NO EXCEPTIONS, then they would be more encouraged to come up with a system that may actually work. As it is their healthcare, fully funded by us the taxpayer, is the Cadillac of healthcare. They get free service of a UHC with the quality and immediacy of the US private system.
 
Nova_C said:
So far as I know the only person who I think would advocate that is KJUN, most everyone else is a lot more reasonable in these threads.
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Since you may actually think that, I can't call you a liar. If you would have said I do support that, all of my other statements to the contrary would just prove you were lying. I've said Bush already MADE that law (i.e., your reference), and I'm not sure we need any more. I pay taxes to cover those and I pay higher insurance premiums already to cover the ones that don't pay their own bills. I've never said the current system needs to STOP helping those it helps. I'm just saying the GOV has no right or ability to fix it by controlling it...AND that they are wrong for removing care from terminals and disableds (I've said that many times - an I mean it) to save money. I've also said it is wrong to say they will take savings to pay for health care from those with savings - how is it insurance if they make you pay for it AFTER paying the taxes for it in the first place?

With all that said, I do think the only things we deserve in this life are what we EARN. There is a difference between taking what is offered (i.e., help) and thinking you DESERVE a free ride from someone who makes more money than you). Big difference.

It all comes down to why does person 1 DESERVE free treatment even if they are too lazy to work while person 2 has to pay twice for it because they do actually work?

Actually, that is wrong. What it really comes down to is that the system may be broken, the government's idea will break it even more while costing those that are earners more than it alredy does, and most voters ARE currently against it. That is all that should matter.
 
tsst said:
Another coincidence about her care. I was in the USAF at the time. We first went to the base (gov) hospital which because of gov decisions to minimize costs were unable to handle her care (my wife before birth). It is actually kind of funny looking back now but not so much then, the maternity ward doctor and nurse almost in unison said 'we need to get her to a hospital'. I am thinking isn't that where we are? They called for a private ambulance service (the gov ambulance only serviced the base hospital due to budget cuts) which took her to a private hospital for the care. That is where my daughter was born and cared for also. The gov run system failed to provide the care needed.
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I'm glad someone was looking out for you and yours - whether that was here or a higher being. With that said, THIS is what scares me. What happens when the whole US system is VA and there IS nowhere else to go? :(

I really don't care if it works elsewhere - it will NOT work here.
 
diamondlil said:
No healthcare system could exist with some 'official' telling you to stop efforts.
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EXACTLY. Given 10 years (or less) there is no doubt this system WOULD be dfoing that, though. The wording is in there to allow it. It just takes the right tweak in the world for those to start getting acted upon. Obama says he doesn't support the things we don't like, "and that will never happen." If true, why are those parts still in there? Scary question, isn't it?
 
medusacoils said:
I found this article;

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/

I haven't read through the whole thing, just skimmed it. If you didn't know, CNN is a very liberal news organization, so what they write, has to be true! :sidestep:

Wayne
Click to expand...
I just read the whole thing... and it actually looks pretty good. Of course I didn't go over it with a fine toothed comb (being CNN and all).

My brother can't believe that CNN even posted it. He said I should cut and paste it and then post it somewhere else before the "powers that be" on CNN REMOVE it. LOL.

MORE people should probably read it!
 
KJUN said:
Since you may actually think that, I can't call you a liar. If you would have said I do support that, all of my other statements to the contrary would just prove you were lying.
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Then I honestly can't figure you out KJUN, because you constantly talk about taxation being thievery, how the people who would be covered by government subsidy are lazy freeloaders, and how any kind of wealth redistribution is bad thing.

And yet you say you don't want to restrict care provided to people who can't pay for it. So which is it? Either the wealthy pay the way for the poor or they don't.
 
Nova_C said:
Then I honestly can't figure you out KJUN, because you constantly talk about taxation being thievery, how the people who would be covered by government subsidy are lazy freeloaders, and how any kind of wealth redistribution is bad thing.

And yet you say you don't want to restrict care provided to people who can't pay for it. So which is it? Either the wealthy pay the way for the poor or they don't.
Click to expand...

The wealthy worked very hard for their money and should not be forced by the government to take care of the poor. Should they take care of the poor? Yes. Should they be forced to? No. Very simply, it is their money not the .govs
 
Laziness has been mentioned a few times in this thread.

Nanci, you may have worked hard to get to where you are now, and more credit to you. But you were lucky in the sense that you were born into a wealthy, well-equipped country and you were born with a good mind. Some people aren't that lucky, does that make them lazy if they can't get a college degree and afford to pay for private medical care?
 
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