Is it just me or has anyone else noticed...

[Reptilekyle64]

Great detective work Steve, This certainly will help smooth confusion out and I can't believe it wasn't proven until now, and I believe people wholesaling anything and everything probably just added to the confusion in Germany thinking something new just randomly popped up. This isn't the first case of genes fooling the market.

 

[steve roylance]

Great detective work Steve, This certainly will help smooth confusion out and I can't believe it wasn't proven until now, and I believe people wholesaling anything and everything probably just added to the confusion in Germany thinking something new just randomly popped up. This isn't the first case of genes fooling the market.

Thanks Kyle!!!

 

[LRDJ]

Steve,
That is one exciting outcome.... Congrats! BTW.....I have always admired your hard work!

So What are we calling the end-product when a new Kastanie mutation is produced now that we know that is the same compatibility (eg, Sundarin, Sundarin Blood, etc...LOL)?

Take care!

Orlando

 

[steve roylance]

Steve,
That is one exciting outcome.... Congrats! BTW.....I have always admired your hard work!

So What are we calling the end-product when a new Kastanie mutation is produced now that we know that is the same compatibility (eg, Sundarin, Sundarin Blood, etc...LOL)?

Take care!

Orlando

Hey Orlando, I appreciate the kind words!

Not really sure? I'd really like to find out why the Sunrise get more color. Is it some RC RF gene at work? Or do Kastanie/ Mandarins stay more orange because of another factor like originating from Upper Keys ancestry?

I'm really curious to see the progression of these Mandarin/Sunrise. I wonder how they'll turn out. More orange or more red? And what about the "Kastanies" the Non Amels in the clutch. Will they stay lighter like Kastanies or get redder like Sunrise? Seems like there's more work to be done, but at least we know now for sure what's going on with the Kastanie gene! Kastanie, Java, Mahogany, Copper, Sunrise...I'm pretty sure when we mix them all we'll find the same thing.

I really think for now we should continue to call "Sunrise" Sunrise, and "Kastanies" Kastanies. Because they do change when they get older a little different from eachother. My whole Candy Cane and RO explanation.

I guess I have no choice, but to start a progression thread on these!

 

[LRDJ]

Steve,
Intriguing results.....but a bunch of questions are popping in my head right now.

For example: I have seen a few Amel Sunrise Motley that when neonates they expressed the same phenotypic variation. Since there is three recessive mutations (Amel, Sunrise, and Motley), would it be correct to call them Mandarin (Amel Kastanie) Motley as well?

Take care!

Orlando

 

[LRDJ]

Hey Orlando, I appreciate the kind words!

Not really sure? I'd really like to find out why the Sunrise get more color. Is it some RC RF gene at work? Or do Kastanie/ Mandarins stay more orange because of another factor like originating from Upper Keys ancestry?

I'm really curious to see the progression of these Mandarin/Sunrise. I wonder how they'll turn out. More orange or more red? And what about the "Kastanies" the Non Amels in the clutch. Will they stay lighter like Kastanies or get redder like Sunrise? Seems like there's more work to be done, but at least we know now for sure what's going on with the Kastanie gene! Kastanie, Java, Mahogany, Copper, Sunrise...I'm pretty sure when we mix them all we'll find the same thing.

I really think for now we should continue to call "Sunrise" Sunrise, and "Kastanies" Kastanies. Because they do change when they get older a little different from eachother. My whole Candy Cane and RO explanation.

I guess I have no choice, but to start a progression thread on these!

Steve,

Ok....Perfect. I guess that answers my previous question. Thanks for your time!

Take care!

Orlando

 

[Chip]

Thanks for doing the legwork, Steve! I suspect (some, anyway) sunrise carry red factor/mask/etc. -another trait that isn't visible at hatching. Now, if you can figure out the red coat/disease, etc. types, you'll be my hero!

 

[steve roylance]

Thanks for doing the legwork, Steve! I suspect (some, anyway) sunrise carry red factor/mask/etc. -another trait that isn't visible at hatching. Now, if you can figure out the red coat/disease, etc. types, you'll be my hero!

LOL! Thanks Chip

 

[SODERBERGD]

Way to go, Steve . . .

From everyone, thanks for doing those trials. Often, if we have to ask, "is that hatchling a Mandarin or an Amel Sunrise", they're probably the same.

Great job, buddy. Hope ya had a good Christmas yesterday.

Don

 

[LRDJ]

Steve,
Lots of great info....

"Is it some RC RF gene at work?.....Steve QUOTE"

Good point. I have a pair of Mahogany (siblings) that I acquired from Mike (Gourmet Rodent) last year. Phenotypically, both look different. The female reminds me of a Kastanie (Pic. below taken in August 2013).



Now.... when I look at the male things changed a bit. The colors are totally different and it looks to me that there is some weird allele doing some sort of "MACARENA" with the DNA. Like you said is it the RC RF gene at work?






and I am still scratching at my head....:crazy02:

Take care!

Orlando

 

[steve roylance]

From everyone, thanks for doing those trials. Often, if we have to ask, "is that hatchling a Mandarin or an Amel Sunrise", they're probably the same.

Great job, buddy. Hope ya had a good Christmas yesterday.

Don

Thanks Don! Hope you did as well

 

[steve roylance]

Steve,
Lots of great info....

"Is it some RC RF gene at work?.....Steve QUOTE"

Good point. I have a pair of Mahogany (siblings) that I acquired from Mike (Gourmet Rodent) last year. Phenotypically, both look different. The female reminds me of a Kastanie (Pic. below taken in August 2013).



Now.... when I look at the male things changed a bit. The colors are totally different and it looks to me that there is some weird allele doing some sort of "MACARENA" with the DNA. Like you said is it the RC RF gene at work?



and I am still scratching at my head....:crazy02:

Take care!

Orlando

I have some Mahogany Corns that should breed next season. Mine also have the same variability. Some are the spitting image of Kastanies and some are more red!? I guess time and breeding trials will tell. At least I have another project to work on

 

[kathylove]

Congratulations, Steve! I haven't worked with any of those morphs mentioned, but it is great to see you are still "on the job" as a detective for deciphering new morphs - especially pretty ones, lol!

 

[steve roylance]

Congratulations, Steve! I haven't worked with any of those morphs mentioned, but it is great to see you are still "on the job" as a detective for deciphering new morphs - especially pretty ones, lol!

Thanks Kathy! I appreciate it!

Hope you and Bill are doing great in AZ.

 

[Walter Smith]

Nice Job and good eye Steve !!!

I definatly can't add much info simply because I don't have any of the lines in my collection, but by reading through your thread and seeing pics, I'd say you pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there is just one thing that puzzles me...............correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the "Sunrise" develope a "white speckling" as they mature oppossed to the Kastaines not developing it ??? :shrugs:

Maybe whatever is causing the white to manifest, (along with the possible RC RF ) could possibly be the factor in why the (Kastanie/Sunrise) look a bit different as adults ??? :shrugs:........just thinking out loud.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[steve roylance]

Nice Job and good eye Steve !!!

I definatly can't add much info simply because I don't have any of the lines in my collection, but by reading through your thread and seeing pics, I'd say you pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there is just one thing that puzzles me...............correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the "Sunrise" develope a "white speckling" as they mature oppossed to the Kastaines not developing it ??? :shrugs:

Maybe whatever is causing the white to manifest, (along with the possible RC RF ) could possibly be the factor in why the (Kastanie/Sunrise) look a bit different as adults ??? :shrugs:........just thinking out loud.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

Thanks Walter! I believe it's already been proven that when Motley is combined with Sunrise is when it produces the white flecking.

 

[steve roylance]

Just wondering if the white flecking is linked somehow to the Motley gene? Kinda like Pied sided to Diffused??

 

[Walter Smith]

Thanks Walter! I believe it's already been proven that when Motley is combined with Sunrise is when it produces the white flecking.

Ahhh, gottcha. So the white flecking is only manifested in SUNRISE MOTLEYS correct ?
Are there any Manderine Motleys that exsist and if so, do they display the white flecking ??

Just trying to learn something here.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[Walter Smith]

Just wondering if the white flecking is linked somehow to the Motley gene? Kinda like Pied sided to Diffused??

Maybe only when combined with Sunrise???
In all of my years of breeding and producing thousands of Motleys, I've never seen it (the flecking) when combined with any other color trait.

The PS trait does seem to be linked to only the Blooderd/Diffused trait, but can also be visual in other color morhps as well.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[steve roylance]

Maybe only when combined with Sunrise???
In all of my years of breeding and producing thousands of Motleys, I've never seen it (the flecking) when combined with any other color trait.

The PS trait does seem to be linked to only the Blooderd/Diffused trait, but can also be visual in other color morhps as well.

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

That's what I mean, with Sunrise.

Pied I believe is linked to Diffusion, so yes Lavender, Charcoal, Tessera, Caramel...etc can be Pied but when combined with Diffusion.