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My right to bear arms is under fire right now.

Rich Z said:
In my opinion, the guy who approached you with a gun in his hand was stupid. The chances of anything that COULD have happened turning out favorably for anyone was very VERY slim. He could have easily been viewed as the aggressor and suddenly found himself dead on the ground. As it is, my opinion is that HE was violating the law by brandishing a firearm and YOU could have called the police and filed charges against him. As it is, if you have any identifying information about that guy, I would contact the local police in that area and file a report. He needs to get pulled back down to earth before someone DOES get shot because of his actions.

Reduce availability of guns? All the hoops someone has to jump through to buy a gun isn't enough? A person has to ask permission of the government BEFORE they can buy a gun from a dealer. If they don't have a CCW (at least in Florida) there is a waiting period they have to go through before they can take possession of their purchase.

That being said, so we can have a "right" to keep and bear arms, but only as long as there are laws heavily restricting the ability of anyone to find and obtain these arms? Well, that's sort of like saying that yes, we do have the right to free speech, but at birth you have to have your lips sealed shut, and if you do want to speak about something, first you need to fill out an application and get approval in order to do so. And there is only one station available to do the surgery necessary, and there is a waiting list. But if it saves lives from even one incident of crying "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater..... So where exactly does the concept of "freedom" squeeze into that sort of scenario?
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If you will allow the pun, I will say it point blank, rich: this is the problem I am talking about. On a day when 20 children were shot to death, when replying to a man who just had a gun pulled on him by a neighborhood vigilante, all you can do is go on an entirely one-sided defense of gun rights no one is even threatening. It is an obsession that plagues us, and though i am not personally judging these people, we MUST do what we can (education, better law enforcement, etc) to lessen it.
 
Kokopelli said:
Yes, criminals are likely to get guns from the black market... but people who have a momentary lapse in judgement?
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Have you ever just punched an old lady in the face? That's the scale of lapse of judgment we are talking about here.

the_edsta said:
If you will allow the pun, I will say it point blank, rich: this is the problem I am talking about. On a day when 20 children were shot to death, when replying to a man who just had a gun pulled on him by a neighborhood vigilante, all you can do is go on an entirely one-sided defense of gun rights no one is even threatening. It is an obsession that plagues us, and though i am not personally judging these people, we MUST do what we can (education, better law enforcement, etc) to lessen it.
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I don't think it's "gun culture" or people with an "obsession" with guns that are doing the mass murders. It's lone nuts. In fact, I'd wager the more guns/hours operating experience people have, the less likely they would be to go on a killing spree. I don't think Massad Ayoob or Larry Vickers are going on shooting sprees any time soon.

I think the BBC is dead on with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PezlFNTGWv4
 
Chip said:
Have you ever just punched an old lady in the face? That's the scale of lapse of judgment we are talking about here.



I don't think it's "gun culture" or people with an "obsession" with guns that are doing the mass murders. It's lone nuts. In fact, I'd wager the more guns/hours operating experience people have, the less likely they would be to go on a killing spree. I don't think Massad Ayoob or Larry Vickers are going on shooting sprees any time soon.

I think the BBC is dead on with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PezlFNTGWv4
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That comparison is reductive. I am not saying mass murderers are all gun obsessed or even that gun obsession in an individual causes such incidents. I am saying that the prevalence of this obsession and the associated belief systems betray a larger subset of problems, and that these are worth combatting as a community. I know many people who are obsessed with guns. Like the many people I know who are obsessed with anything (snakes included), some are a bit sick in the head, some are not. I do propose a gun for
Corn snake exchange program, to start!
:)
 
If someone supposedly "brandished" a gun at you, why on earth did you not call the police to report this incident?

Chip is correct. It's most of the time not, heck almost NEVER, the "gun enthusiasts" that pull off the mass murder stunts. It's people with mental illness or some kind of disconnect.

The answer to the entire problems is firmly rooted in the approach. Why do you think people target places like schools and malls? Guns are banned, so they take the path of least resistance to commit their heinous act.

Give police back the power to police, bring in a small number of armed security to key areas, and you will see stunts like this decrease and lessen in severity. You don't have to go over board at all. Not everyone needs a weapon. The best offense is a good defense.
 
the_edsta said:
He got out of the car and I could see the pistol in his hand.
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That is called brandishing and it is against the law.

F.S. 790.10 If any person having or carrying any...firearm...shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self defense the person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor in the first degree.

Of course for him to be arrested legally, a LEO would have to observe him doing so- he wouldn't be arrested _legally_ just on your word.
 
I'll add that with freedom comes responsibility. It must be pointed out the mother of an obviously mentally disturbed son, leaving her guns unsecured, is in large measure to blame here.
 
the_edsta said:
On a day when 20 children were shot to death, when replying to a man who just had a gun pulled on him by a neighborhood vigilante, all you can do is go on an entirely one-sided defense of gun rights no one is even threatening.
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Well I am sorry that happened to you. People like that make if difficult for people like me by perpetuating the illusion that all gun-carrying citizens are just waiting for the opportunity to whip it out.
 
BloodyBaroness said:
Why do you think people target places like schools and malls? Guns are banned, so they take the path of least resistance to commit their heinous act.
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Simply placing your opinion after a rhetorical question doesn't make it true...

I would posit that malls and schools are targets because they contain large masses of otherwise innocent people huddled together. Or because they are simply the most common public forums in our country. Or because they are the places the perps have been bullied at or have negative associations with. In fact, I could conclude any number of extremely logical things that DON'T entail the one-sided and sickening conclusion that somehow MORE guns will solve the problem.
 
Nanci said:
Well I am sorry that happened to you. People like that make if difficult for people like me by perpetuating the illusion that all gun-carrying citizens are just waiting for the opportunity to whip it out.
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I do agree with you; I try not to be so reductive as to think any person or group of people behave in any kind of 'typical' way. There are always outliers and always inconsistencies.

But, in keeping with the initial post in this topic, I do think more stringent laws -- especially concerning mental illness, not only of the person owning the gun, but others in the household -- may be in the pipeline.
 
I don't believe it is illegal to carry concealed, with a permit, in a mall in Florida. It is prohibited in a police station, jail, courthouse, government meeting, meeting of the Legislature, polling place, school, athletic event (unless it is related to firearms), passenger portion of an airline terminal unless you are checking it as baggage (and it is properly contained), and any place it is prohibited by federal law- any federal office or building, (not including banks) and any portion of an establishment licensed to serve alcohol for consumption on the premises in the portion of the premises that is primarily devoted to that purpose.
 
the_edsta said:
Simply placing your opinion after a rhetorical question doesn't make it true...

I would posit that malls and schools are targets because they contain large masses of otherwise innocent people huddled together. Or because they are simply the most common public forums in our country. Or because they are the places the perps have been bullied at or have negative associations with. In fact, I could conclude any number of extremely logical things that DON'T entail the one-sided and sickening conclusion that somehow MORE guns will solve the problem.
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It is true.

My entire career is based on threat assessment and response. I have studied trends, methods, and patterns of violent attacks for years. Violent minded people target the areas of least resistance. There are plenty of government studies that back up the psychological aspect of it.

Simply giving police the power to effectivly police again would solve some of it. Using trained armed security, does not have to be a large force, would help even more. You don't have to go over the top with it.
 
So many talk about the mentally ill and gun control. I know most of the folks that do the terrible things do have problems. But also there is the cowards with guns. It is like the old saying "I would rather defend myself from a brave man than a coward".
I have purchased a few guns lately, my last being my .270 in stainless and every purchase was delayed during the paperwork. The only reason I can think of is my disability, being Bipolar. Well back to my point. I had a gun pulled on me by a concealed carry person. My brother and I had a disagreement that escalated into me telling him I was gonna stomp a puddle in his butt and then walk it dry. So he pulled his pistol. Was a coward's actions. Yeah I could have called the police but it wouldn't have done any good. He is a part time deputy here.
 
the_edsta said:
Simply placing your opinion after a rhetorical question doesn't make it true...

I would posit that malls and schools are targets because they contain large masses of otherwise innocent people huddled together. Or because they are simply the most common public forums in our country. Or because they are the places the perps have been bullied at or have negative associations with. In fact, I could conclude any number of extremely logical things that DON'T entail the one-sided and sickening conclusion that somehow MORE guns will solve the problem.
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Oh, I see. An anti-gun rights obsession is MUCH better than a pro-gun rights obsession......

But the crux of the matter really isn't even about guns. It's the freedom to do what the heck I want as long as it doesn't harm someone else, and that freedom is not judged and legislated against because of what someone else decides to do. I would be just as protective of any other right to own something, whether a small fraction of the populace got themselves worked up into a frenzy to ban guns, fast cars, fattening foods, swimming pools, or living room recliners, thinking it's for the good of their own personal view of how they want society to be. Don't judge me, nor try to base some cockamamie pre-emption law, by what some whackos do. Take a look at the psychological profiles of such people and then try to figure out what made the screws become loose.
 
crotalis40741 said:
So many talk about the mentally ill and gun control. I know most of the folks that do the terrible things do have problems. But also there is the cowards with guns. It is like the old saying "I would rather defend myself from a brave man than a coward".
I have purchased a few guns lately, my last being my .270 in stainless and every purchase was delayed during the paperwork. The only reason I can think of is my disability, being Bipolar. Well back to my point. I had a gun pulled on me by a concealed carry person. My brother and I had a disagreement that escalated into me telling him I was gonna stomp a puddle in his butt and then walk it dry. So he pulled his pistol. Was a coward's actions. Yeah I could have called the police but it wouldn't have done any good. He is a part time deputy here.
Click to expand...

Actually, in my opinion, you expressed a verbal threat of impending physical harm. Apparently he believed your threat, and you gave him grounds to give you a defensive reason to NOT proceed with your threat. Cowardice or not, if someone expresses such a threat of imminent harm to me, they will get the same response out of me. My intent would be to display a "oh no you won't" type of response. THAT is exactly what the CCW is for. Self defense. Self defense does not have to wait until after you are laying on the ground bleeding.
 
Bob- your brother pulled a gun on you? And he's in law enforcement? Nice. Not saying it's okay for brothers to beat the crap out of each other, but he'd threaten to kill you?
 
I guess some would say the liberal side of me is coming out, surprise. My .02 putting in place stronger gun controls is no more effective then controlling drugs. Criminals have guns no doubt, if they have them I want to continue to have the right to also have guns.
Some have said people who have mental illness should not be able to have guns, why? I'm sure many who own guns are mentally ill. Some gun owners are parents, how many parents have been pushed to the limit with kids. Does this mean parents shouldn't have guns? I could go on with analogies but it would still boil down to it isn't the gun it's the person holding it. I feel if we put some of the money be used for the gun lobby was put to mental illness, it would be a better use of the money.
I have been robbed twice at gun point both times while working in a hospital. I have also had someone intoxicated pull a gun and try to shot me the gun was at my head. So can we conclude drunk people or people seeking drugs shouldn't have guns. It would be so easy to say my statement is stupid of course these people shouldn't have guns at that moment. We can't follow gun owners 24/7, we can't stop the sale of alcohol or the use of legal drugs to avoid people seeking drugs.
The issue of owning guns should be second to the issue of ways to stop these people before they commit these crimes.
 
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