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Not so Caramel anymore.

5 Star Serpents

5 Star Serpents

Ryan and Terri
So I picked up this girl last year, I liked her head pattern is really what it came down to, so I decided to pick up a male counter part from her clutch also, at that point they looked like a regular caramel...Fast forward to now, she's gotten kind of, well, ugly. Her color has turned out odd, her belly checkers are a weird color, her head is IMO ugly, and bug eyed her temperament has gone to a really warm place and she loves to musk...something resembling that of a nasty rat snake smell.
Here are some pics of her, and some with her clutch mate for comparison, I'd love some thoughts on her, sorry the pics aren't great...she kept trying to eat the camera.
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In all honesty I probably won't be keeping her because I'm simply not at all impressed about how she's growing up but I certainly can't market her as a caramel, I even question if she's a "pure" corn at all :sidestep:
 
I kinda like her... Clueless, on an answer, but she looks very interesting. Is she why you were asking about Ontario laws ? Lol ! Crazy on the difference between them !
 
Haha, no I love black rats...Steve has (or maybe had now) a pair available, but we can't keep them here so I was going to try to be evil and convince you that you needed some LOL...I know BAD me!!:devil01:
 
Oh and p.s....depending on how I feel that day and how precious she is acting she may find her way into your package if that's how you feel LOL. She's EVIL!
 
I would want to see the parents. That "three pronged crown" has been seen in rat/corn crosses. I've done exactly one rat/corn cross so no expert for sure, but they're similar to the variety of siblings that hatched here from that cross...

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het amel black rat X Tequila Sunrise line Snow het hypo...so depending on how you feel about the TS line there may also be a tinge of gray rat also...
 
Thanks Chris! It makes more sense that she's growing up rather rat like then, her sib has a slight bit of the same head markings/crown but he's definitely got more of the corn thing going on than she does. Unfortunately they came in with a wholesale lot so parents aren't something I have access to, but I do know they did come from the same clutch.
I guess my biggest concern is that she could be part black rat, which as I mentioned are illegal here and I don't want to intentionally keep, produce or sell anything like that. She looked no different than your regular little caramel baby when I got her, and I looked but can't find any pics of her from then.
And as I mentioned I really don't love the look of her either, although she is unique, not really my thing :(
 
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The questioning of whether one of your own babies is a pure corn or not is exactly why I think keeping a dna pedigree of ones snakes is not such a bad idea if one wants to ensure that the snakes one has and is breeding are in fact pure corns. I wish you luck on determining this ones possible origins. Of course, if it is a hybrid that would throw its siblings into question as well.
 
Black rat, het amel I got from a friend years ago in KY. You hate to jump right to "oh it HAS to be a cross" because it's unusual looking, and again I'm not an expert on all things crossed, but it looks like what you'd expect to see ( and a lot of folks have seen) from various rat/corn crosses. In the States the Black rat/Corn crosses go by the trade name of "Beast" corns...
 
Yeah, the look she has developed honestly screams "rat" to me...and the big thing that really got me recently was that smell, I know you know what I mean by that rat snake musk smell right? It's SO foul!!
Carlie, it looks like you may inherit them through default, but I have to be allowed to see pics of babies you realize ;)
 
I find her quite attractive! If I use my imagination, I can see her as being a caramel that has the coral ghost/salmon snow-type red factor/red coat influence dorsally. That is, a brown and yellow snake doing it's best to show lots of pink, but not being able to do it quite right. The greatly reduced melanin in the belly checks, especially when compared to the sibling, is also very interesting! Send her down here and I'll make the room for her. Evil temperaments don't bother me (you haven't met my Sunkissed silver queen that bites and musks me EVERY time I take her out) and potential hybrid status is not a problem either (I LOVE hybrids). My only problem would be financial. I MIGHT be able to scrounge minimal shipping, but that's all.
 
I was thinking the same thing about the red factor ! I textedher as soon as i seen the pictures. Thanks to Bob i have a ton of red factor here and can test her out ! Evil is doable :) she seems like a fun project even tho shes a hybrid !
 
Hybrids are fine here...just not black rat anything :(
She is very unique, and the belly checkers really get me honestly, I love her belly. the difference in the color on her side as opposed to the dorsal color is very interesting for sure!
Shipping across the border this way is reasonably simple and inexpensive...back into the U.S., not so much from what I hear, although I'm not too sure why:shrugs:
 
Carlie gets to have some fun and test her to the red factor :) Unfortunately the chance that she is black rat means not only can I not keep her here without the risk of a $2500 fine (x2 if anyone wanted to get sticky about her brother as well), I also won't put my integrity on the line by selling her, her brother or any of their babies here in Alberta and passing them off as pure corns. She will be sent out to Ontario, where she can be enjoyed, legally, very shortly :)
 
She'd be a neat cross with the TS stuff Carlie has. And unless the Canadian powers that be wish to test her dna I don't see how she'd be illegal to keep. If she even is a cross doesn't necessarily mean it was a black rat snake used, could be a gray, yellow, Texas, 'glades etc...
 
She does look Redcoat Caramel (what I would expect them to look like)...more than Joe's claim about the golden corns.
 
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