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Speckled King X Corn

I like Hybrids for the simple fact that most are unique. Just look at the morph galleries and see how many own the same snake, but I can walk into my snake room and see snakes that are one of a kind...
 
im going to go ahead and apologize for starting a thread as controversal as this one... and i am also sorry for my grammar and spelling issues.
 
No worries...it's like the Parrot fish, etc. You'll find lovers and haters and those in between. Oh, and check out the "spell check" feature! I'd be lost without it....maybe I need to have Clint put one in for me! :)
 
Outcast said:
im going to go ahead and apologize for starting a thread as controversal as this one... and i am also sorry for my grammar and spelling issues.
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Don't apologize, You know what they say about opinions...That being said, my opinion is that hybrids are really awesome animals and It seems they're becoming more popular. There are "purists" in every hobby, although the 'purity' of many cornsnakes is highly doubtful, people keep forgetting that?
 
starsevol said:
Both corns and speckled kings are nice looking snakes, and even if they were butt ugly I would consider mixing them ruining both species.
If someone had a champion cocker spaniel, and it accidently bred with some other mutt, it would be considered "ruined" by it's owner. And dogs are the same species!! Kingsnakes and cornsnakes are not.
I am a purist, I hate hybrids.
Especially hybrids that look pure.

Just because you "can" create hybrids, doesn't mean you "should".
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Why would the original be ruined? Because it bumped hemipenes with the wrong cloaca? It's still the same snake with the same genetics to pass on... if anything would be "ruined", it's the hatchlings that came of that pairing, and possibly your breeding year if either of those snakes were intended for special clutches.
 
Outcast said:
im going to go ahead and apologize for starting a thread as controversal as this one... and i am also sorry for my grammar and spelling issues.
Click to expand...

Don't apologize! Frankly, I'm sorry that instead of answering getting your question answered, you got your thread derailed. :rolleyes:

I did try to run a google image search for speckled kings x corns, but no luck! I'm quite curious to know what that cross would look like as well.
 
Also I'd like to add that while I don't have any real issues with hybrids that are sold as such to responsible owners, I've yet to see any that are pretty to me. I don't think a specked king and a corn would change that... you'd probably just end up with either a weirdly colored king-looking snake or a normal-colored, big corn-looking snake (but neither would actually be a corn or a king). Buuut I'm neither a geneticist nor a snake expert, so for all I know a speck king x corn pairing would produce the next new craze in the hobby.
 
it would be neat to see, i like the look of alot of the hybrids out there, i wouldnt try it because i become attached to all my animals and wouldnt want to take the chance of having my pets eaten...lol
 
ForkedTung said:
Don't apologize, You know what they say about opinions...That being said, my opinion is that hybrids are really awesome animals and It seems they're becoming more popular. There are "purists" in every hobby, although the 'purity' of many cornsnakes is highly doubtful, people keep forgetting that?
Click to expand...

The very REASON that the purity of many cornsnakes is in doubt is directly related to hybrids that were mislabeled or dishonestly sold as pure. That's the main reason I hate them. Because of humans desire to create frankenstein's monster, the genepool of the domestic corn is forever ruined.
What an accomplishment......
let's see how many other species we can permanently mess up.....
 
Beth, We get it, you hate hybrids...Great way to welcome a new member, the thread title was NOT, "What do you think about hybrids" It was a new member asking about this cross and any information on them, there's plenty of other threads about hybrids where your opinion can be expressed without derailing the thread any further.
 
Not true many pure corns in the wild. New blood etc. Also thats why i only buy from trusted sources.
 
starsevol said:
The very REASON that the purity of many cornsnakes is in doubt is directly related to hybrids that were mislabeled or dishonestly sold as pure.
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It could also be because rat snakes often interbreed where they overlap. I have data to back up this claim-can you point me to any hard evidence for yours? While the vast majority of wild collected animals probably have no influence from another species/subspecies, there's no way to know for sure. Keep in mind the whole concept of a species is man-made. Animals that we classify as different species can and do hybridize in the wild. I guess nature ruined those snakes in your opinion.

You seem to be pretty vocal about hating "impure" snakes. Where do you draw the line? Kisatchee corns have been labeled a different subspecies now. If someone breeds a kisatchee to a miami, is it wrong in your eyes? If so, was it wrong before the taxonomy changed when they were just another locality? On that note, is it wrong to breed a miami to an okeetee? Taxonomically they're the same, but they look different and wouldn't interbreed naturally. What if they're named different species next year? These are just hypothetical questions mind you-I don't really care what anyone else thinks on this issue since my mind has already been made up.

starsevol said:
Because of humans desire to create frankenstein's monster, the genepool of the domestic corn is forever ruined.
What an accomplishment......
let's see how many other species we can permanently mess up.....
Click to expand...

Good point. We should probably purge the captive gene pool of all morphs since they were marketed because of our desire to "create frankenstein's monster" after all. Surely you must agree with this, because to do otherwise would be hypocritical. I mean how can you justify producing snakes that look nothing like their wild counterparts while simultaneously condemning any particular hybrid simply because it doesn't exist in the wild?

I have no problem with people who choose not to keep hybrids. I don't even mind people who don't like hybrids. I do however like to present a balanced counter-argument when someone condemns someone else's choice of taste in snakes and tries to assume a nonexistent moral high road on the issue. These animals are captives. We continually strive to produce interesting looking variations in our collections. If someone chooses to do so by allowing hybrids in their collection, that's their business.
 
I really don't have an opinion on the matter but I just had to say that this has to be the CS.com quote of the day - I literally LOL'ed!!

Because it bumped hemipenes with the wrong cloaca?
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I completely agree with Kevin S, but I do think it's best that the debate on both sides be moved to another thread. I'm sorry I took up the drum beating, too. This is the place to answer someone's question and post relevant pics, not entertain our own opinions.

I sure don't mind jumping in on a good debate, though. :rofl:
 
Kevin S. said:
It could also be because rat snakes often interbreed where they overlap. I have data to back up this claim-can you point me to any hard evidence for yours? While the vast majority of wild collected animals probably have no influence from another species/subspecies, there's no way to know for sure. Keep in mind the whole concept of a species is man-made. Animals that we classify as different species can and do hybridize in the wild. I guess nature ruined those snakes in your opinion.

You seem to be pretty vocal about hating "impure" snakes. Where do you draw the line? Kisatchee corns have been labeled a different subspecies now. If someone breeds a kisatchee to a miami, is it wrong in your eyes? If so, was it wrong before the taxonomy changed when they were just another locality? On that note, is it wrong to breed a miami to an okeetee? Taxonomically they're the same, but they look different and wouldn't interbreed naturally. What if they're named different species next year? These are just hypothetical questions mind you-I don't really care what anyone else thinks on this issue since my mind has already been made up.



Good point. We should probably purge the captive gene pool of all morphs since they were marketed because of our desire to "create frankenstein's monster" after all. Surely you must agree with this, because to do otherwise would be hypocritical. I mean how can you justify producing snakes that look nothing like their wild counterparts while simultaneously condemning any particular hybrid simply because it doesn't exist in the wild?

I have no problem with people who choose not to keep hybrids. I don't even mind people who don't like hybrids. I do however like to present a balanced counter-argument when someone condemns someone else's choice of taste in snakes and tries to assume a nonexistent moral high road on the issue. These animals are captives. We continually strive to produce interesting looking variations in our collections. If someone chooses to do so by allowing hybrids in their collection, that's their business.
Click to expand...

I think there is a huge difference between a morph and a species. Breeding a bloodred to a miami is on par with a caucaision (I know, spelling....) and an african american having a child. Same species, different "morphs" if you will. But breeding a corn to a king is like breeding a human to a chimp.

Intergrades and ever changing taxonomy is another matter, of course. That is not the same as throwing a couple of snakes together that should be predator and prey.

My own experiance has really shaped my view. I belonged to a herp club at one time. It has since disbanded. I acquired a yearling cornsnake while a member there. After I had her a number of years, bred her, and sold dozens and dozens of her babies to local pet shops, I found out that "Kate" is most likely a rootbeer. Her breeder dabbled mostly with creamsicle "corns" and Kate was a by-product.

As a result, Kate was never bred again, and I will feel horrible about the damage I caused the genepool in my own state for the rest of my life. And how many other people has this happened to?

The only good I can see coming from hybridizing are those snakes that are so freakish looking and so out there, that no goverment offical trying to enact a ban has any idea what they are dealing with.
Maybe enough hybridizing will erase all species and subspecies, and we will have just a "domesticated pet snake"....that sounds pretty unbannable to me....

And to the OP, I never meant to make you feel unwelcome. I am glad you posted this. In a subject as heated as this, it is important that all opinions be aired. It is the only way to discover where you stand.
 
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