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THE "STILLMAN CORN"

steve roylance

New member
The "Stillman" Corn named after it's owner Adam Stillman is very unique in appearance. Check out the twin spots, and the white belly.
This animal was one of five males that hatched from a clutch that was from a wild caught gravid female. Only two of five survived. There were no females in the clutch, and the mother passed 2 weeks after egg laying. I believe she was very small.
I have had the privilege of breeding him with some of my females. We don't know if this is recessive or not. But I'm thinking there is a good chance on it. I plan on plugging him into Wild Caught females and Stripe/ Motley females.
I'll keep you updated on any future developments.
Steve Roylance
www.gutattus.com
 

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He's BEAUTIFUL! He's definitely on my most wanted list. What a unique and amazing corn. Thanks for sharing. I really hope his genes are dominant. Good luck! Please update us and let us know on the progress of the breeding projects. I'm really interested in the outcomes.
 
He's amazing! Where did you say you lived again? And what hours do you work? And is that a real security system, or just the sign??
 
The pattern was just bugging the heck out of me. I knew I seen something similar and its in my own collection.
These are not the greatest but if you look, This fox snake has a similar pattern on her back.
snake6.jpg


foxsnake6.jpg


I am not stating this snake you have is a cross between corn and fox.. but the pattern is very similar and in the corn its much more clean. The fox though does have belly checkers while your snake doesn't.

angrymom.jpg
 
Yes... due to it's family being wild-caught, I'd say it could be hybrid... at least ever so little of a bit... it's pattern just isn't "corn-y" to me. VERY beautiful though, for sure!
 
Yes... due to it's family being wild-caught, I'd say it could be hybrid... at least ever so little of a bit... it's pattern just isn't "corn-y" to me. VERY beautiful though, for sure!
I'm leaning toward the 'hybrid' (note, edit 'hybrid' to read 'intergrade') direction. I think the poor WC female was violated by something.
Seriously though, I would want to be doing some comparative microscopic scale morphology examination of the head of the males in question.
And looking at what other 'related' species exist in the locale of the WC female.
 
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Heres a crazy thought to think about though... What if the snake has absolutely no trace of being hybrid....
then what o.0?
New morph?
*insert x-files theme song here*
 
If I remember right from my ecology class, true hybrids from two seperate genera don't really happen too much in the wild, just intergrades (same genus different species)
and yeah, I want one too
 
I'm leaning toward the hybrid direction. I think the poor WC female was violated by something.
Seriously though, I would want to be doing some comparative microscopic scale morphology examination of the head of the males in question.
And looking at what other 'related' species exist in the locale of the WC female.

Yes... due to it's family being wild-caught, I'd say it could be hybrid... at least ever so little of a bit... it's pattern just isn't "corn-y" to me. VERY beautiful though, for sure!

I have to disagree, I do not think its a hybrid. I think this is some pattern that is very Parallel.
What would it mate with to get that pattern?
 
I'm leaning toward the 'hybrid' (sorry, amend this to read 'intergrade') direction. I think the poor WC female was violated by something.
Seriously though, I would want to be doing some comparative microscopic scale morphology examination of the head of the males in question.
And looking at what other 'related' species exist in the locale of the WC female.

If I remember right from my ecology class, true hybrids from two seperate genera don't really happen too much in the wild, just intergrades (same genus different species)
and yeah, I want one too

I have to disagree, I do not think its a hybrid. I think this is some pattern that is very Parallel.
What would it mate with to get that pattern?
Thanks, Jen. (And Jim in post #14.) I'd like to amend the word "hybrid" in my previous post to "intergrade".
I forget about fox snakes being so closely related.
 
Thanks, Jen. (And Jim in post #14.) I'd like to amend the word "hybrid" in my previous post to "intergrade".
I forget about fox snakes being so closely related.

They are but I dont think its an intergrade at all. This snake would look much different than just the patterns.
 
The pattern on the neck and the white belly say to me that it's probably a variation of motley. I'm glad you're testing it with some motley females as well as some normals. Did any of the other clutchmates show a similar pattern? And can we see a photo of the surviving male sibling for comparison? There may be something about it that may help confirm or deny the possibility of them being intergrades. The saddle count (if you can call them saddles) does seem a bit high for a "pure" corn. But then, I've seen photos of unusually patterned corns with high counts that were caused by incubation problems. I've got my fingers crossed for this to be genetic as I like the look!
 
An intergrade is a naturally occuring cross (i.e., collected from the wild) between two different SUBSPECIES. That's it. If you stop and think about it, there isn't really any intergrades for cornsnakes. If they do exist (currently suspected but unknown), they would have to be limited to the Ball Parish area...and that's IT. For anyone confused, intergrades occur in zones. You don't find pure subspecies and intergrades in the same area. It's impossible: they are either all pure or all intergrades.

Hybrids are, in the wild, crosses between different species. It doesn't matter if they share genera names or not. As long as they are different SPECIES, they are hybrids. Geeeezzzzzz.......lol. Hybrids, by definition, MUST be pretty rare, although some sister taxa do have as high as a 5% hybridization rate where the two species overlap. (Yes, this is a fuzzt definition of species, but ALL such definitions are fuzzy somewhere.)

Now, I believe we need to see three things before we jump on or off the hybrid wagon: images of the MOTHER, images of the SIBLINGS, and images of the OFFSPRING. Yes, I see some things that look off, but that was said about striped corns and bloodred corns, too. Personally, I'm not jumping on the hybrid bandwagon even a little bit UNTIL we see what the offspring look like and get some data concerning the other 4 male siblings. Even if pure, is there any surprise that pure ones can have a mutation that make them look like closely related species 9i.e., bloods and stripes again!) It doesn't surprise me, so lets wait and see what the BABIES look like before making any calls and potentially ruining this morph before it even exists, eh? That just sounds like a good idea to me!

With that said, I don't even for a second think "that has to be an emoryi hybrid," but I have seen that pattern before. Those split blotches look almost EXACTLY like the split blotches seen in many chocolate emory ratsnakes. Almost EXACTLY like that. The pattern seems to be linked to the color mutation, but not ALL of them have it - and some normal byproducts show a little of that pattern even though they aren't chocolates. Don Soderberg collected the original chocolate in Kansas, so there is no reason to suspect hybrid there. Plus, the babies are perfectly normal looking. :)

Again, I have NO REASON to suspect that is an emoryi hybird based on that one animal's appearance - NONE yet - but it does show a similar pattern does exist in Elaphe as a mutation, so MAYBE this is a pure, inheritable, pattern type, too! It is NOT beyond the realm of possibility. If it didn't have a patternless ventral, my guess would be that it would NOT have a Mendelian mode of inheritance. With the patternless ventral, I'm thinking it might be possible. Good luck! I'm leaning with Susan, though - this has the definite look of an INCUBATION related anamoly. Again, what did the siblings look like? With such a high mortality rate in eggs and neonates, incubation-related problems are sounding EXTREMELY likely.

Where was the mother captured? A little locality would help a lot with idea about the ventral pattern (if not simple recessive), possible crosses, etc.
KJ
 
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