This is DAMN scary !!!

[Ricky87]

Seems pretty plain and simple when you spell it out in monosyllabic words. And it makes perfect sense. The problem is I don’t really want to raise hundreds of normals, snows, and amels. So I guess the next decision to make is why am I doing this? For me it’s a hobby that pays for itself. I would rather produce a couple dozen striped butters and take all year to sell them. If they don’t sell it won’t be the end of the world, my wife has a good job.

I completely agree. Once you start mass breeding and selling snakes 100 at a time, you start to lose interest in the whole process. It's fun to breed something only a few people have, (or so I'm assuming), and then the possibility to turn their offspring into the next new morph. It becomes a challenge, and it also increases your interest in what other breeders are out their doing. I personally think it's just a phase now, and people really don't have the money for the "Lavendar Sunkissed", even if they really want it. That's definitely the case for me, but once people start figuring out how to manage their money in this economy people will have a better idea on what to do to realistically afford the snake they want. That's just my opinion, though.

 

[Rich Z]

The reptile market has "crashed" several times since I have been in this business. Just about every type of business likely goes through the same cycles. What is happening is that the balance between supply and demand is constantly trying to reach equilibrium. Last year wasn't a particularly good year either, but I heard a lot of wholesalers complaining that they just could not find colubrids of any kind for sale. I expect this year that a lot of breeders will be getting out of the business, which reduces the supply to compensate for the lower demand. So for those remaining in business, their business may accordingly pick up.

This entire business is really nothing but a type of ponzi scheme anyway. It can't possibly exist as an infinite supply of self replicating merchandise being sold to an infinite number of buyers who then become an infinite number of competitors. Unless the number of new buyers is increasing exponentially every year, this business HAS to crash every now and again to bring the supply and demand equation back into balance.

 

[wade]

Rich, I think your saving grace is that most people find it is damn hard to make a living selling snakes and don’t stay in the business long. Every pair of snakes you sell could be your next competitor, but I’d bet 90% of the potential offspring never make it to the market.

 

[kathylove]

Exactly!

Back in the '90s, we got up to around 3,000 - 6,000 colubrids per year in production (including other rats, kings, milks, etc, in addition to corns), and it got really old, really fast. If I wanted to do assembly line breeding, I would just as soon do rodents, since I don't have any emotional stake in them. As for the stuff I really like (reptiles, especially a few kinds of snakes), I would prefer to sell only several hundred per year of somewhat higher priced babies, and add on other stuff like books, posters, and related stuff to try to keep paying the rent. If you can still pay the expenses (not easy!!) that way, it is not as likely (in my opinion) to cause burn out as what Rich does.

 

[wade]

There is a better side to the coin. I raised mice and rats for a couple of years and sold them to the local pet stores. It is amazing how many feeder rodents pet stores go through each week. I made a lot more money doing that than I ever made selling snakes. I’d load Rubbermaid containers into my truck every Monday and go make deliveries. Sometimes I would have an entire truckload of mice. That is kind of creepy when you think about it. I tried to raise only what I could sell and freeze the extra for my own use.

It became a job. Nuts to that!!

 

[kathylove]

Yes, rodent raising got old, too.

But if that is what you really want to do, it is easier to train somebody to feed and clean rodents than to care for various herps. But I wouldn't do it down here in Florida - just too hot!

 

[Rich Z]

Rich, I think your saving grace is that most people find it is damn hard to make a living selling snakes and don’t stay in the business long. Every pair of snakes you sell could be your next competitor, but I’d bet 90% of the potential offspring never make it to the market.

No doubt.... Plus, without a doubt, having a well recognized "brand" name like "SerpenCo" certainly helps as well.

When anyone has asked about doing this as a business, I tell them "DON'T". Do it as a hobby that has the potential to pay for itself, and maybe if you are lucky, eventually become a business. When I started doing this, I had absolutely no intention of it becoming a business. I didn't even realize that it COULD become a business. When I lived in Maryland, for the longest time I thought I was the only person in the world even interested in breeding snakes. So who the heck would want to buy them? When I had a pet shop owner ask me about buying some of my snakes, I dunno, it just seemed "dirty" to me. I was doing it for fun and releasing most of what I hatched out for the longest time. But that pet shop owner did say something to me that made an impression. He said "Rich, there is nothing wrong about being paid for something that you are good at doing."

I started breeding the corns around 1977 or 1978 and didn't establish SerpenCo until 1985. So I'm thinking I likely bred corns for a good 4 years or so before ever thinking about selling any of them. But heck, that was a long time ago........

But I do remember WHY I originally started breeding my snakes. I read somewhere that an effective way to determine whether wild animals are acclimated into captivity well is to see if they will breed in captivity. So heck, I just wanted to see if my snakes were acclimated. And yep, they sure were! But then NOW what do I do with those babies?

But in any event, yeah, you can make some money at doing this, but quite honestly, I do wish that I didn't see so many people being in this where that is obviously the ONLY reason they do it.

 

[Rich Z]

But if that is what you really want to do, it is easier to train somebody to feed and clean rodents than to care for various herps. But I wouldn't do it down here in Florida - just too hot!

Heck, raising the rodents is probably one of the biggest headaches of this entire business. It's the reason why Connie and I have not been able to take a real vacation of more than 2 or 3 days in the past 15+ years. And sad to say, but no, we could not find anyone reliable enough around here to take care of the mice for us. The few times we tried almost turned into disasters. We've had people try to stand on the lower shelves to reach the upper ones (hey bud, notice that LADDER over there?) and collapse them with their weight. We've had people when shutting off the light, shut off the exhaust fan at the same time. And we've had people we thought giving explicit instructions would work, but if something unusual were to happen, like a fire starting in the corner, if it wasn't on the list of instructions, they would just shut the door and go home. If I ever do write a book, there will be a chapter that I will entitle "INHUMAN RESOURCES"........ :laugh:

 

[El Jefe]

If I ever do write a book........

Put me on the waiting list for that one....no matter what the chapters are!

 

[wade]

I have always had mine set up to be pretty self-sustaining. Auto water and large food hoppers. I think I could leave them for a month if I needed to. They would stink to high heaven. For me the biggest problem was over population. If one of my buyers would cancel an order on me I’d have mice with no where to go. Do it two weeks in a row and we’ve got big problems.

Mice require more attention than snakes. It was just too repetitious for me. I got so tired of cleaning tubs. Just thinking about it makes me kind of misty eyed even now.

 

[kathylove]

Yes, mice are boring and stinky. And any live animal is a disaster waiting to happen, especially if you have too many to care for yourself. I have cut my rodent colony down to a bare minimum. I buy frozen mostly, and just have enough live to be able to offer live when needed. But the good thing about rodents is that if they are healthy and the proper size, that is the only thing the customer is interested in. Not worried because the colors or patterns are not exactly what they wanted, or because they aren't tame enough!

It is nice to have much smaller numbers of ALL live animals. I just wish I could make a living on the drygoods, and keep them animals just as a hobby. It would be more fun that way. But I do have to admit that I am having fun "playing" with my ASF rats - they are kind of cute, and not that stinky.

 

[RobStevens]

We were totally prepared for the slow down this season.So far we can't complain about business.
Things did not look very good in November when we were holding hundreds of babies,but as the season progressed things have picked up considerably.
Every year at this time i have a plan to bring a bunch of big,fat yearlings to Daytona,but again,luckily we will be sold out again.
I can't speak for the want ads as i haven't had to post any lately.
I can understand the feeling of posting for several weeks and not get any action.
Our philosophy is to have a little something for everyone.From high end to low end.And as Rich stated,selling the really high end stuff is a bonus of sorts.

Back to the snakeroom,
ROB

 

[Walter Smith]

I can understand the feeling of posting for several weeks and not get any action.

Yeah, it's not a great feeling especially seeing that the 29th of this month will be the wifes last day of work because the corporation is shutting down, so that's one job gone.

Me working outdoors, rain-rain-rain isn't helping. I guess I'm kinda feeling the pressure of having to count pennies and nickles to bring to the bank...:shrugs:

This suck ass economy really hits you when you don't have it.

Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[Jeff Linkchorst]

I guess I'm kinda feeling the pressure of having to count pennies and nickles to bring to the bank...:shrugs:

This suck ass economy really hits you when you don't have it.

Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!

Your not alone in this case Walter. I am right there with you. I am so tired of just skating by..

 

[Walter Smith]

Your not alone in this case Walter. I am right there with you. I am so tired of just skating by..

AMEN !!!
It's even more frustraiting when you only have one skate.

Walter,
:crazy02: BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[carol]

And we've had people we thought giving explicit instructions would work, but if something unusual were to happen, like a fire starting in the corner, if it wasn't on the list of instructions, they would just shut the door and go home.

Wow, I think after you were done with them they traveled to CA to work with me.

Me working outdoors, rain-rain-rain isn't helping. I guess I'm kinda feeling the pressure of having to count pennies and nickles to bring to the bank...:shrugs:

Come on over, we have a weekend opening at my work thanks to the people that Rich just described. Then again, CA would find a way to make a turnip bleed.

Hope things will turn around for you soon!