• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

"You lie!" - Disrespect or expression of an opinion?

MegF. said:
Personally I applaud him! He's just saying what many of us feel. For the President to sit up there and say that we won't be providing free care for illegals as we do now is bull. I would happily vote for him to continue. I want a representative that will say what the average voter feels. Good for him in my book! It's called Freedom of Speech and so far, we're still allowed to practice it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, That would be so awesome if any senator or congressman, at any time, during any function decided to exercise their "Freedom of Speech". I am being facetious, what you would have Meg, is anarchy on the floor. I've said it before I'll say it again. There is a time and place for our respective politicos to exercise their "Freedom of Speech". While the president is speaking is not one of them.
 
Peyton-

First of all...there isn't anything in the bill solidifying a Public Option from the government...yet. And I've never advocated one. I've MERELY advocated that reformation is NEEDED in the medical industry...esopecially where insurance companies are concerned.

And no matter how many people HAVE gotten surgery or what have you paid for by their insurance companies, it simply does NOT dispute the FACT that over 1/3 of all claims are denied.

I don't care how many people you can get to stand up and say that their insurance worked for them. It doesn't matter, because the FACT of the matter is that 36.9% of claims are DENIED. You cannot dispute those numbers, no matter how many happy straw men you stand in line with.

I don't care if Mary down the street is happy with her insurance. I don't care if YOU are happy with your insurance. These are merely strawman arguments, designed to conceal the FACT that MORE THAN 1/3 ARE DENIED. You put 200,000 people in line that are happy, and there is always another 100,000 that are being screwed. That is FAR too many people being screwed. Frankly, with those numbers...the insurance companies aren't shelling out the money for your surgery...the people being denied are. Talk about theives, eh?

So yea...I am advocating reform. I am advocating regulations to control insurance companies. I am advocating spending money TO control these insurance companies. I am advocating a NEW way of doing things in this country, because the OLD way doesn't work.

Try debating the factual numbers, provided graciously by the companies themselves, instead setting up strawmen to block the view...

And just as another point of fact...insurance companies are in control of one of the largest lobbiest organizations in the country. The ONLY reason we have not seen reform BEFORE is because more politicians aer in bed with the insurance companies than with pornstars and fake celebrities. It's very difficult to vote to regulate a company that just donated a cool million to your campaign... That's why it is finaly happening now...because they can pass the bill WITHOUT the votes of the bed-fellows to these lying theives.

And I say it's about time. I remember a few years ago that conservatives were standing on the corner telling liberals that if we didn't like the changes that were being made to our government for our benefit, we should shut our mouths and move away. Well...turnabout is fair play. Don't like the change? Take your guns and your confederate flags, and move to another country. Conservatives were VERY vociferous in their insistance that the changes made under the last regime were for our protection. Well...these new changes are for our improvement.

You can keep your wiretaps, false arrest, unfounded accusations, and conspiracy theories. I'll take the change...

8 years ago the Conservative Rallying Cry was America. Love it or leave it. Well...I love this country enough to FIX it. The Status Quo was a horrible fallacy, built entirely on false accounts of imagined financial stability. The Status Quo was accepting of governmental policies they never understood, yet accepted without question. The Status Quo was content to sit blindly in their easy chaiors, affirmed that their government would take care of everything for them. And now...you're saying less government.

Ahh...the wonderful flip-flopping of partisan politics. Don't you just LOVE seeing a different perspective? Well...I guess you would actually have to look with open eyes to see that. But trust me...it's there. And it's better...
 
By the way--

...I don't care if Mary down the street is happy with her insurance. I don't care if YOU are happy with your insurance. These are merely strawman arguments, designed to conceal the FACT that MORE THAN 1/3 ARE DENIED. You put 200,000 people in line that are happy, and there is always another 100,000 that are being screwed. That is FAR too many people being screwed. Frankly, with those numbers...the insurance companies aren't shelling out the money for your surgery...the people being denied are. Talk about theives, eh?...
Click to expand...

I don't have the statistics to show for it, and you would ignore them anyhow, but...I be willing to bet that if you took a poll of those 200,000 happy insurance policy holders...less than half of them have needed to use their insurance coverage for a major operation or long-term care. If they HAD needed that, most of them would fairly quickly be displaced to the denied side of the fence.

And while we're on the subject of medical reform...I've heard a lot of sqwaking about government being in control of medical decisions and such ridiculous claims as "Death Panels". Just so there is no confusion...

Death Panels are real, as it turns out. Only instead of being a board of government officials deciding who gets to live and who dies, it is a Board of Directors, sitting in gigantic offices, crunching numbers, and deciding who gets to live and who dies. It's a CEO deciding who gets to live and who gets to die...not your doctor. It's a blind, uncaring corporate entity with their eyes firmly on the bottom line, never to waiver that is currently making those decisions. Pretty picture, ain't it?

I'd also like to point out that there is an astoundingly high number of former insurance company CEOs, and directors that are currently being charged with felony fraud and felony fraudulent business practices, such as using employee leveraging to influence employee voting, among other completely illegal and unscrupulous practices.

But you go ahead and keep telling yourself that yuor insurance company is good. You keep telling yourself that it can't get any better. I'll keep knowing you are wrong, and that change is going to come...soon...

Have a nice day!
 
tyflier said:
Peyton-

First of all...there isn't anything in the bill solidifying a Public Option from the government...yet. And I've never advocated one. I've MERELY advocated that reformation is NEEDED in the medical industry...esopecially where insurance companies are concerned.

And no matter how many people HAVE gotten surgery or what have you paid for by their insurance companies, it simply does NOT dispute the FACT that over 1/3 of all claims are denied.

I don't care how many people you can get to stand up and say that their insurance worked for them. It doesn't matter, because the FACT of the matter is that 36.9% of claims are DENIED. You cannot dispute those numbers, no matter how many happy straw men you stand in line with.

I don't care if Mary down the street is happy with her insurance. I don't care if YOU are happy with your insurance. These are merely strawman arguments, designed to conceal the FACT that MORE THAN 1/3 ARE DENIED. You put 200,000 people in line that are happy, and there is always another 100,000 that are being screwed. That is FAR too many people being screwed. Frankly, with those numbers...the insurance companies aren't shelling out the money for your surgery...the people being denied are. Talk about theives, eh?

So yea...I am advocating reform. I am advocating regulations to control insurance companies. I am advocating spending money TO control these insurance companies. I am advocating a NEW way of doing things in this country, because the OLD way doesn't work.

Try debating the factual numbers, provided graciously by the companies themselves, instead setting up strawmen to block the view...

And just as another point of fact...insurance companies are in control of one of the largest lobbiest organizations in the country. The ONLY reason we have not seen reform BEFORE is because more politicians aer in bed with the insurance companies than with pornstars and fake celebrities. It's very difficult to vote to regulate a company that just donated a cool million to your campaign... That's why it is finaly happening now...because they can pass the bill WITHOUT the votes of the bed-fellows to these lying theives.

And I say it's about time. I remember a few years ago that conservatives were standing on the corner telling liberals that if we didn't like the changes that were being made to our government for our benefit, we should shut our mouths and move away. Well...turnabout is fair play. Don't like the change? Take your guns and your confederate flags, and move to another country. Conservatives were VERY vociferous in their insistance that the changes made under the last regime were for our protection. Well...these new changes are for our improvement.

You can keep your wiretaps, false arrest, unfounded accusations, and conspiracy theories. I'll take the change...

8 years ago the Conservative Rallying Cry was America. Love it or leave it. Well...I love this country enough to FIX it. The Status Quo was a horrible fallacy, built entirely on false accounts of imagined financial stability. The Status Quo was accepting of governmental policies they never understood, yet accepted without question. The Status Quo was content to sit blindly in their easy chaiors, affirmed that their government would take care of everything for them. And now...you're saying less government.

Ahh...the wonderful flip-flopping of partisan politics. Don't you just LOVE seeing a different perspective? Well...I guess you would actually have to look with open eyes to see that. But trust me...it's there. And it's better...
Click to expand...

Geez Chris, With those numbers one could describe the insurers as having "Death Panels". Capitalists deciding the fate of their clients with the 'bottom line' being the deciding factor.
Seriously Pruddock don't you think that your insurance company spent many man hours looking for a loophole, a missing signature or pre-existing condition that isn't covered in order to exclude you from the expensive treatment that you received ?( Seriously too, Glad you're doing well!)
If they had found one, do you think they would've still paid out of the goodness of their hearts?
Is it OK for others to die from their condition because their company doesn't offer health insurance?
 
tyflier said:
Less than half of them have needed to use their insurance coverage for a major operation or long-term care.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget life-time caps!

I work with hemophilia patients and the drugs they require to prevent bleeds are really expensive. Patients with severe cases reach their lifetime caps fairly quickly (before adulthood) and are forced to move to government programs like CCS or GHPP (in California) anyway.
 
tyflier said:
36.9% of claims are refused. 36.9% of claims are refused. That's more than 1/3 of all claims are refused. .
Click to expand...

Sure....and then you contqact your state's equivalent to the "Texas Department of Insurance" and get them to fight for you to get the problem resolved IF it was a valid claim. What happens with the insurance is aanother branch of the government? Ever seen how effectively one branch fights another? The don't even try..... In other words, you'll LOSE you second chance at an insurance claim.
 
jpccusa said:
Let's not forget life-time caps!

I work with hemophilia patients and the drugs they require to prevent bleeds are really expensive. Patients with severe cases reach their lifetime caps fairly quickly (before adulthood) and are forced to move to government programs like CCS or GHPP (in California) anyway.
Click to expand...

That's right. ObamaCare where they could be just allowed to die instead of wasting resources on them is a MUCH better plan. I just wish I wasn't as heartless as the people that wrote that potential into the laws.....
 
KJUN said:
Sure....and then you contqact your state's equivalent to the "Texas Department of Insurance" and get them to fight for you to get the problem resolved IF it was a valid claim. What happens with the insurance is aanother branch of the government? Ever seen how effectively one branch fights another? The don't even try..... In other words, you'll LOSE you second chance at an insurance claim.
Click to expand...

KJ, did you not hear that the state's no longer have their own rights? It's all the national government's job now. The 10th amendment was abolished years ago you fool! :devil01:
 
tyflier said:
I love this country enough to FIX it.
Click to expand...

The problem is that people who claim they want to fix it want someone ELSE to pay for what they think are the needed repairs. Most of the people PAYING for it don't think it is broken - or at least don't agree with the solution they are being TOLD to pay for against their will.

That is the problem. Too often the people that BENEFIT are the ones trying to call the shots at the expense of those that don't.
 
I'm actually moe than pleased with what I pay for my insurance coverage, what my wife pays for hers, and what we pay for my sons...for what we get in return. I'm MORE than pleased...often even shocked it is so low based on what my charges could be on day.

The deal is, though, that I don't expect a free ride or money to magically appear in their coffers from nowhere.
 
Unfortunately, what I've come to realize is that it IS going to happen. In which case either the government "fixes" my healthcare, or I watch the nation's debt explode and dig all of these old threads up with the simple words, "I told you so...".

It's a win win. I get better coverage, or I get to stroke my ego as the world slips into decay... Ought to be fun :crazy01:
 
KJUN, you make it sound like I don't pay taxes, or work my butt off to make ends meet. You act like there is only 2 classes of people in this country...you and the deadbeats. That is simply untrue.

The people that you are talking about...indigents, welfare, jobless, homeless, illegals...these people are already on Medi-Caid. They already have a free full ride in medical. They don't need any change.

And guess what? We BOTH pay for that. See...I make too much money to qualify for that. I gotta pay the same thing you pay, or I don't get coverage. Problem is...if I paid what you pay for insurance...I wouldn't be able to pay rent. Another problem is...if I break my leg and can't work...I can't pay rent. That's on TOP of the few grand it costs me to fix my leg.

But I still have to pay my taxes, so they will take that out of my disability. And the hospital will take a percentage of that to cover my debt. And now, a once hard-working individual that fought every day to make it standing on his own two feet...is forced into public assistance. And I still gotta pay my taxes.

See...the reform isn't about the broke and indigent. It's about the millions of people that are struggling everyday, doing the right thing, working their jobs, paying their bills, and paying their taxes, and simply cannot afford a private insurance plan, and their job doesn't offer one. THOSE are the people that are going to benefit the most from medical reform.

And NO ONE is trying to take away YOUR insurance. NO ONE is trying to do away with private insurance companies or force people to use a government option. THAT HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF THE BILL. You, and everyone like you, will still have the option to purchase coverage from a private company, as you SHOULD be able to. Nobody should force you to switch from a company you are happy with. And it isn't part of the plan to do that.

What the reform bill DOES do is try to regulate these companies to prevent unreasonable annual percentage hikes, blatant claims denials, and fraud. See...if you already have a GOOD insurance company...I doubt that a whole lot will change, because they are already treating their customers "right". It's the BAD insurance companies that are giong to fail because of this bill...not the good ones.

That's why they are spending so much money to make sure that only the right bits and pieces of information get TV time. It's easier to scare people if they only tell half the story. These bad companies are scared to death that once people find out how they have really been "self-regulating" over the last few decades...they are gonna go bankrupt. And they WILL. So they send out propoganda and scare tactics to convince smart people (like yourself) that this is not something they want. And it works...
 
jazzgeek said:
Speaking of "calling the shots"....here's a headline from yesterday's news....

Majority of Physicians Support Health Reform that Includes Both Public and Private Insurance Options


But hey, what the hell do physicians know about "calling the shots" when it comes to health care?


Dale
Click to expand...

Don't you see?? That doesn't matter one bit because if the healthcare bill passes, there won't be anymore doctors. We're all gonna have to report directly to our senators and congressman for our annual health exams!!

The only good part of that is that our government will finally be putting only their fingers in our butts, instead of the other thing we've BEEN getting...:devil01::awcrap:
 
tyflier said:
KJUN, you make it sound like I don't pay taxes, or work my butt off to make ends meet. You act like there is only 2 classes of people in this country...you and the deadbeats. That is simply untrue.
Click to expand...

If you want to may more, you are welcome to do so. You are welcome to pay my share if you feel it is so important. I just don't see why you believe you have the right to tell ME I should pay more for something YOU weant ot see happen.

I mean you in the plural sense and not the you in the "tyflier" sense. This is not a personal attack. It is an attack on the idea that Person A thinks they have a right to tell person B to pay for more programs that help Person C. If Person A really meant it, they would voluntarily GIVE more instead of supporting the thievery of it from Person B.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top