Derogatory trolling and bitch slapping the membership

[Rich Z]

Sorry, this was not intended to become an "us" versus "them" thread. I think most of the more long standing members here know about the situation concerning that rift. Those that don't can probably still find the thread in this forum concerning an issue revolving around unacceptable behavior in the chat system. Much like this issue, I put my foot down and some people seemed to feel they had some right to do as they please in the chat. So they went and set up their own site rather than comply with my requests. Well, more power to them. It's a free country. But I hope no one is shocked that I choose to NOT assist them in any way with the resources of THIS site.

The point of THIS thread is to indicate that I will not tolerate people specifically coming to this site, whether it be from another site with management and/or membership that may have personal dislikes about this site, or anywhere else, just to belittle this site, it's membership, nor me personally.

If some people believe it harsh of me to NOT be tolerant of such incidents HERE on THIS SITE, then so be it. As I commented to someone via PM recently:

You don't come into my home and tell me the carpets are ugly, the furniture looks like Goodwill specials, and there is a funny smell permeating the place that you really can't stand. Oh yeah, I hate your guts,too. And by the way, what's for dinner? And can I come by again tomorrow?

 

[Clint Boyer]

If some people believe it harsh of me to NOT be tolerant of such incidents HERE on THIS SITE, then so be it.

The trend I've seen is that if you don't care for the way someone else runs 'their' site, start your own!

Seems simple, right?

Just ask anyone that has done that, it's not easy or cheap.

It always seems that the 'new' place has all the 'right' people and the 'old' place has all the 'hateful' people.

There is no freedom of speech when you enter someones private domain! Even if they open the doors to the general public, they still make the rules and have final judgement, it is, after all, THEIR site (home).

I would put money on the fact that anyone here would ban someone from 'their' site if they felt personally attacked.

 

[Drizzt80]

The point of THIS thread is to indicate that I will not tolerate people specifically coming to this site, whether it be from another site with management and/or membership that may have personal dislikes about this site, or anywhere else, just to belittle this site, it's membership, nor me personally.

I agree with you Rich, not that my opinion is more imprtant than anyone elses as I don't own the place.

Being one of the old timers that stuck around, I get pretty riled up when you post a dozen times in 6 months but then show up to post two dozen in a day bashing this site in general, putting assumptive words in other peoples mouths, and then expect . . . well anyway, that's pissing on the carpet as far as I'm concerned. :shrugs:

At least tiflyer posts here as a regular member on a regular basis. oke:

D80

 

[starsevol]

My 2 cents,,,maybe Rich was heavyhanded banning snakexperiance (who I don't really know, and he really did not leave me with a good impression), or maybe he wasn't. It is not my call to make. This house belongs to Rich. I make my home here, but he is the landlord. (I think he's a pretty good landlord, he lets me keep snakes )

Anyway, his house, his rules. I know I have a pretty hot temper and I don't know what I would have done in his place. And it doesn't matter what I would have done in his place, because it's his place and not mine.

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

Is it so bad that some people like it "over there"?

Jen - it isn't that it is bad that some people like it "over there"...more power to them if they do. It is a free country. Heck, I visit that site from time to time myself - but when I do, I don't tell them that their site sucks, that the members are rude, etc.... In fact, I know if I did I would be banned in a heartbeat since they do not tolerate any type of that behaviour whatsoever. Yet, everyone here is in an uproar because someone came here and did exactly that and Rich decided not to tolerate it either.

It is the fact that they come HERE and make a stink about how much they don't like this place. Well, if you don't like it - then don't come over. I think Rich's post summed it up perfectly:

You don't come into my home and tell me the carpets are ugly, the furniture looks like Goodwill specials, and there is a funny smell permeating the place that you really can't stand. Oh yeah, I hate your guts,too. And by the way, what's for dinner? And can I come by again tomorrow?

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

Hey Rich,
You can start passing these out to the moderators so they may be able to give the trolls a taste of their own medicine...........

Jay

 

[snakewispera snr]

Sorry, this was not intended to become an "us" versus "them" thread. I think most of the more long standing members here know about the situation concerning that rift. Those that don't can probably still find the thread in this forum concerning an issue revolving around unacceptable behavior in the chat system. Much like this issue, I put my foot down and some people seemed to feel they had some right to do as they please in the chat. So they went and set up their own site rather than comply with my requests. Well, more power to them. It's a free country. But I hope no one is shocked that I choose to NOT assist them in any way with the resources of THIS site.

The point of THIS thread is to indicate that I will not tolerate people specifically coming to this site, whether it be from another site with management and/or membership that may have personal dislikes about this site, or anywhere else, just to belittle this site, it's membership, nor me personally.

If some people believe it harsh of me to NOT be tolerant of such incidents HERE on THIS SITE, then so be it. As I commented to someone via PM recently:

Twas me if anyone is wondering.......
And I totally agree with the sentiment.....
It's rude to come into my house and diss my curtains......
Same here I guess.....
Just more people come through the front door...... LOL

 

[Noe..gr]

All I can contribute to the situation/discussion is a feeling I have.
I feel sad.And I have felt sad before.In my mind many things,present and past,had no real reason to happen.
We are hard to each other,make easy things difficult and the outcome is that we lose where we should only gain.
This is what I don't like mostly.

(I wish I could express my self better,but I don't feel confident for my English.)

 

[carol]

All I can contribute to the situation/discussion is a feeling I have.
I feel sad.And I have felt sad before.In my mind many things,present and past,had no real reason to happen.
We are hard to each other,make easy things difficult and the outcome is that we lose where we should only gain.
This is what I don't like mostly.

(I wish I could express my self better,but I don't feel confident for my English.)

I think this is an amazingly accurate, beautiful, yet sad reality. And now for the long drawn out version.....

So I have to start this post by saying, I like both sites. Both have separate advantages and disadvantages. I frequent both and do feel like I am welcome to respectfully voice what I do and do not like in both places, and I appreciate that. I do not carry a torch over what happened many years ago. Honestly I see more people holding a grudge here than I do there. I did leave the "other site" for awhile because of the heavy handed censoring, and then a complete LACK of censoring when it fit the owners agenda. I've only returned now that the original owner is out of the picture.

If some people believe it harsh of me to NOT be tolerant of such incidents HERE on THIS SITE, then so be it. As I commented to someone via PM recently:

I agree it was a rude post. However if you take into context how hostile the thread was from the very beginning, I can see how easy it would be for Arjan to make a rude slip of the tongue.

In my opinion, it's a bit harsh to turn a blind eye to how mean/harsh the tone of that thread was and then to really come down on someone who was reacting to being antagonized. It's just my opinion; I'm only voicing it because you allowed. I just read the buf thread and I was very sad on how people were acting. If that thread was the first thread I ever read on this site I would think this site was full of smart ass, rude, arrogant, jerks. I can also see if someone had been away for awhile, how they could easily slip up and unfairly categorize the whole site as bad after reading that post.
As much as I hate to bring the whole chat fiasco to the surface, I have to say the whole situation is ironic...
1)In summary... a troll came into chat and made themselves a complete nuisance, so other members reacted childishly and were very rude to the troll. Then the troll complained and bitch slapped the site and it's members. What happened? The members got spanked for their bad behavior and the troll got nothing.
2)In summary, So now a breeder comes to this site, has a hard time communicating information, and members here are rude and childish in their responses. Then someone comes along to try and help clear things up and reads a rude harsh thread of antagonizing posts and in response makes a rude comment at the site, and in turn is banned.

I'm trying to figure out when policy took a complete 360. Both situations seem extreme on opposite sides. Mind you, the recent posts here weren't as offensive, but they were hostile nonetheless. I remember years ago, you stuck up for the troll because we all should be respectful no matter what and it was pretty much our fault the person behaved the way he did because he was antagonized. I agree, and I would hope Arjan would get that same consideration. If we are going to be here, we should keep in mind what we post represents this site. I think that thread had a stink to it long before Arjan arrived.

Censorship comes in more forms than from the forum owner or mods. There is mob censorship. This works when you have a nice, respectful mob. However, when hostility is allowed here, it will squash intelligent information from flowing. You don't have to be convinced buf is what others say it is. I think it's great for people to want more information before they make up their own mind. Being rude and making fun of people who disagree with you is completely useless. I actually enjoy reading as many ideas on things such as this as possible, even if I don't agree. I like to look at all the angles and rule things out. If someone posts something I don't agree with, at least it's one more idea I can respectfully rule out. And heck, if you are not convinced about the morph, don't buy it. Finished. Let others get informed to their liking and make their own choice. It’s funny how people mock Chuck for not coming over, but honesty, if I had every single piece of data ever asked for concerning the matter, I wouldn’t have posted it there either. I see a lot of people have the mentality that this site is so BIG that people with new information will HAVE to post it here. However, if members are not welcoming and objective to new information/ideas people won't post it no matter how big this site is.

While I enjoy this site for many things, there are also many things I just won't post here because of mob censorship. I wish more people would take more pride in their posts and be as diligent about making meaningful posts as they are in making smart ass mean ones. I've made my fair share of posts I'm not proud of, but I do try to keep peace and remove as many rifts as possible. Heck, even Vinman and I are at peace with each other. I see a lot of people overly jumping and criticizing others posts just because there is a history. Which is sad. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't learn something from them. It's not about all agreeing with each other, in fact there are few things I love more than reading a good debate. I can't remember the last time I read a good debate here, it always turns to personal attacks and flaming. Also, it's always great to back up your friends, but I wish more people would look at the facts before commenting and not what their friends said. Even really good friends can be wrong sometimes. I wouldn't want anyone backing me up without looking at the facts first.

Guess what I did with my first pair of corns? I cohabbed them like the pet store told me to and I lost my yearling female to egg binding. Back then KS was the only thing around and I was well received and thank god, well informed. I sometimes wonder if this site existed then as it does now, how I would have been received here.

I like Nanci’s analogy of a family. It is a big wonderful family. However, I don’t think it’s disloyal to see why a person would get frustrated with some of them and vent off some rude garbage. Heck haven’t we all survived worse comments?

 

[Susan]

Carol, you are a very wise and well-spoken lady. Brava!

 

[The_Saiyajin]

First of all, great post carol.

I think I am one of the oldest Member here and I lost many weeks of my life just by reading on this board. The thing, which I always loved on this board is, that there was a complete other atmosphere then on the german boards for example.

The problem with the harsh threats and rude answers is there since I am on those boards.
Here it really was a one in a million chance to find a threat, which content is agressive.
And it seems, that the problems starting here as well. But belive me, there are way more agressive forums out there.

I really like this forum and that did not change and I was quite shoked about the buf threat (in which I also wrote).

It is really difficult to find a rught descision, when a threat is going "out of control".

I for my position share Carols opinion. The discusion was way to harsh long before Arjan wrote there.

But I also know, that it was not wrong from Rich to do something about that. Its a hard and tough job to handle such a big forum.

Greetings from germany
Chris

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Thank you Carol for saying what I've been trying to say only better.

 

[LBoz]

Nicely written, Carol. You had me right up until your last line. I personally would like to see us stop crucifying David and using him as an example for anything and everything that is "wrong" with this forum. Fact is, we've heard much worse from many of us.

 

[JimGERcream]

Kudos Carol!

I agree totally with Makis and Carol, thank you for writing this post. It describes perfectly my feelings and thoughts.

 

[wade]

Outstanding Job Carol. You Nailed My Feelings. Exactly what I would liked to have said.

I also agree with Lori about the last line. Let's stop using David as the example of bad.

 

[wstphal]

I personally would like to see us stop crucifying David and using him as an example for anything and everything that is "wrong" with this forum. Fact is, we've heard much worse from many of us.

Thread hijack alert: David actually is an example of good things about this forum. He LOVES his herps with a passion. He keeps learning, witness finding out & sharing with us what temps asian rat snakes do best at. He posts these super high enthusiasm threads that make ME smile. He takes spiffy pictures of his snakes. And I don't think I have actually read any posts in which he puts someone down. (Though I suppose it may well have happened before I arrived here, there are just too many Snakemaster24 posts for me to have read ALL of them.) I'd say, despite the controversy that has swirled around him, we could do a lot worse.

 

[carol]

Nicely written, Carol. You had me right up until your last line. I personally would like to see us stop crucifying David and using him as an example for anything and everything that is "wrong" with this forum. Fact is, we've heard much worse from many of us.

Outstanding Job Carol. You Nailed My Feelings. Exactly what I would liked to have said.

I also agree with Lori about the last line. Let's stop using David as the example of bad.

I edited and removed it. I agree, we've heard much worse from many of us. I didn't mean to imply David = bad, but the statement was pretty open to being taken the wrong way. Thanks for bringing it up! It's my understanding that most people like David and think he is worth weathering some slips of the tounge, that's how I feel anyway. It was meant to be an example on how some people are worth forgiving.

I am sorry David if you felt I was saying something bad about you.

 

[LBoz]

You're awesome, sweetie...and I know you didn't mean it with malice intended. Thanks. xo

 

[Carinata]

I did not read Carol's post but I respect Carol very much and I am sure it was well deserved.
Lori and Betsy are awesome BTW!

 

[wade]

HMmmm, excuse me. What am I? Yesterdays trash? I guess you think Kathy and Beth are awesome too. Well that's just dandy.