8 ft rattle snake

[VickyChaiTea]

Wow, I was insulting? When did I ever say or imply that hunting was bad? When did I ever say hunters are irresponsible or anything else insulting? Really, I'd like to know. Just in case you didn't notice (or bother to read) I already said that I am FOR hunting.

Don't even bring up PETA, they're stupid beyond belief.

Why can't wolves/bears/mountain lions be introduced into areas with little to no human population that has enough food for them to hunt after they've been proven to know how to hunt/fend for themselves? I mean really. I would like to know. You act like there is no land LEFT for these guys.

All I'm saying is I'm for hunting responsibly and the gentle reintroduction of natural predators. How is that insulting?

 

[Becca]

I just wanted to make one simple point here, something that Ty already touched upon. There are very strict regulations on hunting animals in almost every single state. The state Wildlife and Forestry service do an annual survey to see how the game populations are faring...and then they base how many tags (or in other words...how many can be brought in) are given out. In this way, populations of deer, elk and other game animals are kept in control...and yet not eradicated.

My family has hunted since long before I can even remember. Every single animal was used right down to even the hide. My grandmother had 9 children...so as you can imagine, feeding all of those mouths was sometimes a chore and it cost bukoo bucks. Whenever they could afford the tag for a deer or elk, it helped TREMENDOUSLY.

So...are there crappy hunters out there who only shoot to kill and for the trophy? Yes, of course there are. You have your fanatics in almost everything from religion to hunting to forum posters. The important thing to remember is that not everyone is like that....in fact the majority of people are actually very responsible.

 

[martin-bernstein]

The state Wildlife and Forestry service do an annual survey to see how the game populations are faring...and then they base how many tags (or in other words...how many can be brought in) are given out. In this way, populations of deer, elk and other game animals are kept in control...and yet not eradicated.

Yup, that's a great point. And another important thing to keep in mind is that those annual surveys are facilitated by many hunters who, by choice, not by obligation, send in wings, hooves and other animal parts so that scientists working in various government branches can do tests to determine the overall health of populations of game.

 

[Kuzco]

remember when this was about large rattle snakes? BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

 

[Shiari]

Remember when this was about not-that-unusually-large rattle snakes? That was the BEST!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/txsnake.asp The power of Snopes and Foreshortening.

 

[Carinata]

From my limited knowledge of natural pathogens and such, I have to say it is a horrible idea to try and re-introduce or introduce ANY native or non-native animal that has been in captivity any length of time. Plain and simple.

 

[MysticExotics]

From my limited knowledge of natural pathogens and such, I have to say it is a horrible idea to try and re-introduce or introduce ANY native or non-native animal that has been in captivity any length of time. Plain and simple.

As far as I know, it's also illegal, unless you have the training/permits to do so

 

[martin-bernstein]

From my limited knowledge of natural pathogens and such, I have to say it is a horrible idea to try and re-introduce or introduce ANY native or non-native animal that has been in captivity any length of time. Plain and simple.

It is a horrible idea for an amateur to "reintroduce" his or her captive animals into the wild. However, it is not always a bad idea if it is conducted by a team of competent biologists, ecologists and other specialists who have studied the habitat in question and the species in question, and researched and documented all necessary data to support the idea that reintro will have a positive effect on the ecosystem, and of course that the species being reintroduced will be healthy.

That being said, it is important to reintroduce animals of similar or identical origins to the animals that previously roamed the area. One couldn't successfully reintroduce a captive cougar from Central American bloodlines into a habitat in the North East because that bloodline is significantly different from the bloodlines of those cats that were native to the North East before they became extinct in the region.

All this is to say that, I have to disagree with you. Reintroduction, if done properly is sometimes a very good idea.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

death is easily avoided. if oyur walkin rattlers rattle for the reason of warning... backing off would prevent death in either situation.

the snake is just as scared of you as you are of it.. its going to do what your going to do which is enter protection mode and kill whatever it thinks is harming it..

Actually, my friend owns many wild-caught rattlers... and some of them will let me put my hand right against the glass in front of their faces befre doing anything. The animals that rattle are being caught and killed, and the ones the stay silent until you step on them or grab them by accident are being left alive.

Also, snakes, especially rattlers, are more prone to running away and hiding than biting. Their venom is how they catch their food, and if they waste it on you and in an hour a huge rat lumbers by, that may be a missed opportunity at a meal they won't see again for months.

Obviously, I didn't mean they should be introduced into cities or other heavily populated areas.

The only reason hunters are "vital" is because THEY killed off the apex predators. Which is unacceptable. I think through careful reintroduction hunting could become something that ISN'T necessary in most areas.

Nice strawman there. No one said that should happen... there are other, ecological reasons not to just reintroduce predators that haven't existed in any consequential number for a generation or two. We can't go back in the past and tell the farmers and outdoorsmen of yesteryear that they are doing harm to the environment by killing off predator animals, sorry.

Em, falling back on the "well it's just my opinion and you have to respect it" argument is childish. Next time you place an innumerable amount of people under an insult-umbrella, why don't you research a bit about that group?

 

[tyflier]

Wow, I was insulting? When did I ever say or imply that hunting was bad? When did I ever say hunters are irresponsible or anything else insulting? Really, I'd like to know. Just in case you didn't notice (or bother to read) I already said that I am FOR hunting.

Now THERE'S an interesting bit of irony. Had you chosen to read my post, you would have seen that I was referring to Em Wright's posts as insulting, not yours.

Don't even bring up PETA, they're stupid beyond belief.

So is the idea that an opinion based admittedly on false information and erroneous data deserves to be respected. And since THAT is the reason for mentioning PETA, it seems very fitting.

But again, you would have had to read my post to understand that...

Why can't wolves/bears/mountain lions be introduced into areas with little to no human population that has enough food for them to hunt after they've been proven to know how to hunt/fend for themselves? I mean really. I would like to know. You act like there is no land LEFT for these guys.

Because these areas have already had predators reintroduced. It's already happened in most National Parks, and regulations are in place elsewhere(such as BLM land in the west) to protect the remaining predators.

A little bit of research goes a loooooong way....

All I'm saying is I'm for hunting responsibly and the gentle reintroduction of natural predators. How is that insulting?

Nobody said it was insulting. I said it was impossible.

Do some research on places such as Yellowstone, to see how wolves were eradicated, deer and elk almost became extinct from disease and overpopulation, and then wolves were reintroduced. You could also research bears in Yosemite, and Mountain Lions in King's Canyon. And if you spent more than 10 minutes on research, I'm quite certain you could find quite a bit more information on the eradication, and subsequent reintroduction, of mammalian predators across the Contintal US.

Then we could talk about how reasonable it would be to do enough "gentle reintroduction" in order to allow these predators to keep grazing prey animals "in check"...

Your proposal was that hunting could be done away with if we reintroduced predators. The counterpoint was made that this is impossible because of current populations of humans. Before you get all bent out of shape, do a little research. Your "proposal" is impossible.

But in the future, try to at least read the posts you are replying to. Nobody ever said anything about you being insulting. The only person that was being insulting was Em Wright in her broad-based accusations of hunters that were admittedly based entirely on emotion, and not at all on facts.:shrugs:

 

[quixoft]

Whenever someone gets on to me about my hunting being inhumane and they also eat meat, I like to ask them if they know how cattle are killed and slaughtered.

Did you know that some cattle are actually bled out and slaughtered while still alive sometimes? The law says that they only have to be unconscious. The ways they kill them are interesting too. Electrocution, suffocation, steel rod into the brain, and bullet in the head are the main forms.

Don't get me wrong, I love my beef and my uncle owns a slaughter house, but anyone that decries hunting and still eats meat is a huge hypocrite.

I bow hunt and I do it because I enjoy it, it's a challenge, and I like venison.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

When's dear season again? I need some of you hunters to send me some venison... I've only had it once but I loooove it.

 

[Chip]

Dear goes grate with beets!

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I will repeat myself. "I think through careful reintroduction hunting could become something that ISN'T necessary in most areas. " That does not mean I think we should stop hunting. That was NOT my proposal. I'm sorry you misunderstood me.

I know full well that animals have been successfully reintroduced into areas of the US. I think that's great. And it just serves as more evidence that it's possible to do in other areas also.

I am going to clarify this now (and even repeat myself a little), even though I'm not quite sure how it got started in the first place. I am all for hunting responsibly. I think that a lot of hunters hunt responsibly, therefore I have no problem with them or the way that they hunt. I know that hunting is regulated these days. I know that responsible hunters care about what they hunt and they want their populations to be stable so they can continue hunting.

Also, Ty I am sorry I misread your post. I did not realize you were referring only to Em.

 

[Chip]

Not to keep this off-topic, but do you feel there are large wilderness areas where indigenous apex predators haven't been reintroduced? They may exist, I'm just unaware. What do you mean by "other areas?"

 

[tyflier]

Not to keep this off-topic, but do you feel there are large wilderness areas where indigenous apex predators haven't been reintroduced? They may exist, I'm just unaware. What do you mean by "other areas?"

I'm not aware of any. Most wilderness areas, National Parks, and wildlife sancturaries have a very healthy population of both prey and predator. There is no hunting allowed in these areas, and the areas are small enough to be self-sustainable through wild populations of the food chain.

I'm not sure about what is meant by "other areas". National wildlife managers have done a decent job of reintroducing and regulating large mammals across the country over recent years, and we already see the effects of large predators in suburban neighborhoods. Bears, coyotes, and mountain lions are already seen in populated areas in many parts of the west...

 

[Tara80]

I know some really high profile golf courses with a lot of deer; maybe we should introduce a few bears and cougars in those areas :grin01:

 

[Chip]

Bears, coyotes, and mountain lions are already seen in populated areas in many parts of the west...

Out east, too. Coyotes are being trapped and shot on site all throughout my state. I've never seen something that didn't exist when I was a kid become so common. You can't drive ten miles of highway without seeing a DOR coyote. Not so many outdoor cats, though. Bears are getting so populated in western NC that hunting permits no longer require a lottery. I live in the suburbs, and trash doesn't go to the curb til morning, bird feeders are brought in at night, etc. And the bear sanctuary is probably 20 miles from here. Still haven't seen a mountain lion since moving here, but they're pretty reclusive.

 

[Drizzt80]

“I don't partake in assembly-line convenience. I don't say that killing things is bad while I hire people to kill things for me.” ~Ted Nugent

If you are anti-hunting, you had better be a strict vegan, because you pay others to do your dirty work. Of course, make sure you also turn your blind eye to the habitat destroyed and animals needlessly killed in order to grow and harvest your tasty vegetables (which do happen to taste great right next to a hearty slab of venison).

D80

 

[MysticExotics]

As long as there is human influence, there will be an imbalance.

IMO, our Paleoithic ancestors lived in a way that kept things in more balance. They truely used all parts of the animals they hunted.
They were part of the food chain. Some were killed & eaten by predators.

Nowdays, many humans are so selfish, & act like any inconvenience that wildlife cause, needs to be fixed, in their favor.

I cannot tell you how many calls I've taken, from people complaining that a coyote is walking down the street, or there's a raccoon on their porch, or the deer are eating from their garden...seriously, people!

By expanding our communities, we're taking away their homes, their food.

I was talking to a coworker recently about hunting in WA, & he said that there's not enough hunters in WA, & there's an over population of deer & elk in areas of WA.

I would much rather have meat supplied by hunting wildlife, that have had a free range diet, than meat that is from animals kept in cramped quarters, fed low quality food, injected with growth hormones, etc.

IMO, it's rediculous to categorize & judge hunters, when the majority of them are responsible.