Original Sin 2013: The Tails of Two Tesseras

[Chromatic Corns]

All pretty but since you don't really need #2 you can send him to me (why is there no drooling smiley?)

 

[HerpsOfNM]

here ya go dream...

 

[5 Star Serpents]

Those non-tessera babies are really incredible looking!

 

[Rich Z]

Do we ever get to ask the person who previously owned the original 2.1 Tesseras questions? He also claims to have produced the first Lavender Corn Snake. Only a few, know who he is. We could learn a lot from somebody who had them before KJ. Where is KJ now? He ask that of me.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Unless it is someone who produced what I was calling "Mocha" originally, and he thinks naming them something else is the equivalent of being the "first" to produce them. But heck, if that is the new rule, then please let me know. It will certainly add a bunch of "firsts" to my list. :rofl:

 

[Rich Z]

Dave, You definitely have the Yellow Disease in your breeding. Above is a thread I have started about it when I first really noticed it. I name Rich Z and may not be completely complementary, but I state opinions and facts, and avoid personal attacks always. I have to, to be allowed to post on this forum. I get sarcastic personal attacks to this day, even when I do my best to avoid personal attacks. The Yellow Disease, AKA, Yellow Jacket, Buf, and others ALL are co-dominant and have a Super as far as I can tell. I won’t say for Buf for sure, but Yellow Jackets express a Super Yellow Jacket pheno. I did not discover it, it is everywhere. It is in our Lavenders and Anery lines especially because it acts like a hypo, and you know everybody likes the lighter siblings. I really LIKE YJ's on some combines, but you can't make RED with it in the mix. I appreciate getting the YJ gene from Rich Z, now that I know what it is.

"Yellow Disease"?? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Renaming genetic traits off the cuff now, Joe? How about renaming Anerythristic as "Black Disease" or Amelanism as "Pink Eye Disease" while you are at it....

I swear......... :roflmao:

 

[mactopa]

OMG I bred these two 2007, I have maybe tessera overlooked. :blowup: I idiot :grin01: :grin01: :grin01:

 

[rich333]

Trying to get a grasp of this.......

So.... If I breed two striped red rash disease snakes ( normal stripe) het mocha, pinkeye........

I could produce striped infection?


Not nearly as pleasant as opal stripes?? Is it..... Hmmmmm.....

 

[HerpsOfNM]

rich333

You'll need this and this for striped infection.

Sorry OP

 

[chris68]

OK, I will tell you what I see.................Everything we produce is man made.

I dont mind saying, because it's just my opinion, that I agree with a lot of this post. It's called Occam's Razor. It is what it is, and to not look at ANY morph without a degree of skepticism is naive. The original Tessera's were from a Striped Motley project. And that's the start. No one knows ANYTHING about what snakes were used to found that project. It's just not tessera's. It doesn't take away from what we as keepers who love to mess with corns do though, or from the "corns" themselves. I keep and breed Tequila Sunrises, I don't mind telling people it's my opinion they are gray rat/corns. They're sure pretty, mixed blood or not. It just is what it is

Sorry your thread went off topic Dave...

 

[Nanci]

It's called Occam's Razor.

Let me play Devil's Advocate. We "know" the 2:1 tesseras originated in a "striped Okeetee" project.

Would not the simplest, most logical method to produce stripes in a locality which doesn't have a stripe version yet be to take a striped wild-type cornsnake, most closely resembling the Okeetee coloration, breed it to your Okeetee(s), recover the stripes, and then proceed to refine the coloration? You would have Okeetee stripes, or close, in two generations.

If you bred your Okeetee(s) to striped Cali kings, you wouldn't know if the stripe gene was compatible, and you'd come up with a whole range of weird patterns besides stripe (if you even got stripe), and the head shape would be totally altered, and it would be _many more_ generations to get back to an Okeetee-colored snake which is indistinguishable from a "pure" cornsnake.

In my opinion, Occam's Razor supports my theory better.

So you have your project, with your offspring. Cellular automaton is the last step in pattern formation for all animal species: birds, fish, reptiles. You can read an in-depth explanation in The Cornsnake Morph Guide (available digitally) and even see a Java applet demonstratingreaction-diffusion.

Cells are laid out in an array. Cells behave individually, all following the same set of rules. The rules govern interactions between neighboring cells. The rule can be as simple as something like "if the neighboring cells are on, switch on," or may cause the cell to have a more complex reaction. The changes happen locally, but result in a general pattern. The cells use hormones to broadcast to surrounding cells, and to listen to surrounding cells. The hormones trigger the process which causes pigmentation to develop.

Radius-threshold is the model describing how each cell sets its on-off state according to how many of the neighboring cells are on. The number of neighboring cells that causes each cell to turn on is the threshold. The radius is how far away other cells are that affect the cell.

A tiny change to one of any of the cells can cause a small or large difference in the results. When you run the model, implementing tiny changes, you can create all the cornsnake patterns including saddles, stripes, motley, banding and tessera. When you run the model, you see that changing only the radius and threshold changes the pattern, you don't have to change any other factors. A small change in the starting state of a cell can make a drastic change in the final result.

In addition, another process called reaction-diffusion cellular automaton affects patterns and pigmentation. There are two types of molecules, U and V. U and V diffuse through the cells, going from cells with higher concentrations to cells with lower concentrations. When U and V meet, they have a chemical reaction and U turns into V. Eventually, V degrades into P, which doesn't react with either U or V. The levels in each cell of one or more of U, V or P causes the cell to form its particular pigment. The differently-pigmented cells form patterns. All patterns present in the animal kingdom can be produced by reaction-diffusion models.


TL;DR Basically, one tiny change in one cell can set off a reaction which produces a previously-unknown (in that species!!!) pattern. Read Cornsnake Morph Guide for a detailed explanation of cornsnake pattern formation at the cellular level.

So- there doesn't have to have been any sneaky super-secret hybridizing and then multiple generations of cover-up breeding to produce a tessera cornsnake mutant indistinguishable from "pure" cornsnakes, with NO ONE EVER spilling the secret. Just a very simple gene alteration, which can and does occur across the entire animal kingdom, producing the same patterns universally.

 

[chris68]

It could work like that Nanci, it's as good an answer on paper as cal king/corn cross pictures and breeding results are. Just prove it. One way or the other. Or not, as it's really a nonissue. We're playing with combo's purposely aligned to create "pretty babies", not preserve the dna of wild caught populations. I too doubt there was a secret gathering of handwringing goons looking to slip that Trojan into the corn gene pool. Is it possible? Unintentionally or not? Anythings possible
Dave do you have any pics/info on their parents?

 

[Nanci]

There is no proof of anything, any more. Maybe someone should offer a monetary reward for the truthful story of the roots of tessera, from the original breeder.

I don't really care, though.

 

[chris68]

There is no proof of anything, any more. Maybe someone should offer a monetary reward for the truthful story of the roots of tessera, from the original breeder.

I don't really care, though.

It's just not an issue to me either Nanci. Only corn morph I really don't like are lavenders lol, and it's an appearance thing

 

[Chip]

The original breeder sold a reverse trio for what, $300? Why work for years to create an indistinguishable hybrid in secrecy for no more reward than that?

 

[dave partington]

OK, I will tell you what I see.

It is so cool that you have the sole surviving pair of Tesseras.
If they are not, I would register them with the ACR. Do you know if the male
Tessera you have is the one that KJ first bred or Don S? The reason
I ask is because my original Tessera was bred by KJ, and if I knew,
I could add him to the beginning of ACR 8375 http://herpregistry.com/acr/Registry.php?idnum=8375

I think we can all agree that any new gene needs to be tested by more than the discover.
I know when I discovered Lava, I needed Don S
and others to reproduce my results before the Lava Theory was accepted as true.

Don’t we need a Tessera INDEX? There is information all over the place.
Before I say what I think about the first Tessera Theory, I need to come clean
all the way. KJ started the first Tessera Thread. He has posted things
about me on the BIO. I have never addressed them on the BIO, but I have here in this Thread:

His claim against me is that I sold him a group
of Het Hypo Plasmas that did not prove to ALL be het for HYPO.
I addressed this completely in the above thread. The day Rich Z is held responsible
for his Hypo lines not producing Hypo as expected, is the day I will be held
responsible for a Rich Z line Hypo not reproducing as expected.
The reason I have not respond in the BIO, is because of the difference
between the real story in the above thread and the lies that are told in the BIO
and believed as truths by others. If I respond on the BIO, I will go all the way.

The two above Threads prompted me to post my first Tessera Theory that
basically stated that I believed the dominant Tessera gene came from the Striped California King Snake.

Today, after three years of breeding Tessera, my peer review of the original Tessera Theory is it is FALSE!
There are Amel, Snow and Anery Tesseras (AKA, Striped Super Corns in the original Thread.
The Normals have tons of Markers and the belly patterns of Tesseras after the originals is
ALL over the place the same as the belly patterns of the Non-Tessera offspring all the way
up to Normals with a Motley looking ventral. It is actually a Striped California King Snake ventral.

Rich Hume posted the above thread with a proven Super Tessera (Homo Tessera) .
The side pattern is reduced when compared to a Tessera (Het Tessera).
Your clutch has produced the same pheno as Rich Hume’s Super Tessera,
so it proves his Theory. You have Super Tess (homo Tess), Tess (Het Tess) and “Normals”,
one with a plain belly and one with checkers, but are they normal checkering?

1. Please define "normal checkering"?
2. When you make some stripe X cal king X corn offspring, and breed the striped ones
into corns that do not contail CalKing, and then take those striped babies,
and breed them into fresh corn stock, which again does not contain CalKing,
and repeat this a few times,
it will be interesting to see
if the stripe gene from CalKing consistently produces 50% stripe offspring, as what we see in Tessera.

3. Bull/Gopher Snakes, Mole Snakes, Red Milk Snakes, Scarlet Snakes, Corn Snakes, Night Snakes,
they all lay eggs, they are all found in North America, and, perhaps most amazingly,
they all have base color, saddles, and saddle borders.
Does this mean they are all hybrids, or does it mean they all share some common ancestry.
OMG, they all have similar markers.

I am not so eager to toss every new color or pattern morph under the hybrid bus.

When the first 2.1 Tesseras with clear belly patterns were bred into other Corn Snake lines,
their belly patterns were all over the place, between Corn Snakes and
Striped California King Snake ventral patterns. The Non- Tess also showed similar ventrals, but not as much.

Dave, a question I have about the pair of Tesseras you have, is are they het for Striped or Motley at all?
Don S must know this I believe. Were they het Striped or Motley or was it introduced by him?

Stripe or Motley corns which are not Tessera often have clear bellies, but when bred into wild type,
or into each other (mot X stripe) the babies have belly checkers are sometimes all over the place.
If you look at the babies again, some have clean dorsal midstripe, others have a bit of erratica to the stripe,
like the uneven lines we see in 'zipper-striped motleys', for instance.
I bet if you dig around a little you can find a lot of pictures
of the first 96 which were made available to the general public.
Why don't you just ask Don and KJ?

Based upon your breeding Dave, I will say the following:
We have the SUPER Corn Snake we have been longing for, but there are others,
such as Diffused, Masque, Border- less, Yellow Jacket and RedCoat. Each one has a het pheno,
and a homo pheno which is improved and therefore deserving of the Super label.

I have not applied the SUPER label to any of them. I have not raised them up and
run any further breedings with them. So WE have NO Proof at this time.

Borderless, at least in my collection, is a line bred trait, as is Vanishing Pattern.
It is the selective removal of the genetics responsible for producing pattern.
Removal of genes from the line. After the line has been bred back and forth into
itself using the formula which allows one to reach F7 without excessive inbreeding,
then the trait begins to behave with the predictability of a gene.
Some traits are easier to coax along then others.
I am not so eager to define redcoat, diffusion (independently of bloodred), masque, yellow disease-
as genes, or traits, or traits which behave like genes, or genes which behave like traits.
Or perhaps there is something else going on, such as an invisible on/off switch
which causes these genetic variables to be seen, or not seen.
I believe there are a few of us around who are already familiar with charcoals with yellow,
and anerys without yellow, and lavender aneries (of either A or B) with yellow.
Or perhaps there is a 6th or 7th possible explanation?

From another thread here:

VP (Vanishing Pattern) is a trait. It is the removal of genes responsible for producing pattern.

As one breeds them along, hold back the examples which have the least visual pattern.
This will be obvious at hatching, regardless of if they contain a hypo player.

When one continues to breed them sib X sib, sib X parent, from a limited amount of related stock, for too long,
deformities and such occur, so it becomes necessary to to outcross to non-VP stock.

If bred to stripe, the stripe comes back in but maybe 10% are absent of stripe, or have diminished stripe.
Also some which are visually zigzag/aztec'ish looking pop up. For the sake of this dissertation,
I am calling these "het VP". When they are bred back to VP,
a substantially higher percentage of the clutch will hatch out with pattern missing.

If for example one wants to sidetrack into breeding aztec-ish X aztec-ish to see if
interlacing the genetic makeup into the F2 will result in more aztec-ish look,
then perhaps this is a way to do it,
but please check with all of the breeders of Aztecs first to make sure the Aztecs in the trade originated from VP,
and if it did not, then give them a different name other than Aztec, to avoid future confusion.

VP X non-stripes, or X non-wild-type-without-other- pattern-hets:
Pattern Results will be all over the place if bred to motley.
Especially if the motley came from an X stripe (or X other pattern/locality/trait) pairing.

If you want to bring new colors into the VP line:
VP X Wild Type Pattern:
=All wild type pattern.
Hold back all of them (a lot of mouths to feed).
F2: maybe around 10-20% VP. & some aztec-ish looking stuff. & some may show a target color.

Side note: Starting with an individual VP which has the least amount of visible pattern=
will yield the best result if your target is visually patternless VP.
But the ones which have pattern part way down the body and then it disappears,
these might be useful for working into a project where one wants more visual color change
running the length of whatever that project is about.

VP outcrosses, and even VP X VP sometimes result in new, never before seen patterns on individuals.
I feel it is well worth hanging on to the truly unique looking ones to develop new pattern lines.

Because it is not a good idea to breed sib X sib past the F2 X F2:

Doing the math before starting any project:
So you have a VP Coral Ghost male.
3. Three female lavenders. I am using Lavender in this example because it has been around a relatively long time.
So it will be easy to find un-related stock. These three female lavenders are from three different sources,
and you have chosen them because visually they are the specific color variant of lavender you are shooting for.
They are unrelated because you took the time to make certain they are un-related stock.

VP X Lvn1 = Group 1 (G1)
VP X Lvn2 = Group 1 (G2)
VP X Lvn3 = Group 1 (G3)

Keep the 3 groups separate. This is imperative.

Raise up G1 and breed F2 X F2; hold back targets.
Raise targets up, breed F2 X 3, F3 X F3.
Do this with G2 and G3.

Hitting F4 & F5.
G1, G2, and G3 are only 50% related, because they came from different mothers.
G1-F3 X G2-F3. = F4. Holdback, group. Repeat. F4 X F4 = F5.

F5 from G1 X G2. Breed these into G3. Has your cerebral cortex imploded yet?

By doing so, you are interlacing the trait of VP through several linebred generations,
so when you outcross in F7 or F8 X stripe, the VP trait is so thickly interlaced,
you should get back around 35-45% VP in the F1.
So the VP in this instance appears to behave like a gene, when in fact, there is no gene.

Another long term project I'm working on involves breeding one 5 gene homo X a second 5 gene homo,
and breeding a third 5 gene homo X a fourth 5 gene homo.
None of the homos contain any of the same genes.

The offspring of First X second would then be classics het 10 genes.
The offspring of Third X Fourth will be het for 10 more genes.
The offspring of first second wibb be bred to the third/fourth.
This will produce classics, 50% possible het for up to 20 genes.
I (ME) call this "Loosening up the genome".
Most breeders will think me crazy, but hey, I'm Crazy Dave, I have no problem owning that.
The books and community has tried to teach me that
I should stay inside the traditional punnett box, so I can have easily predicted outcomes,
and keep getting back to the same old same old.
But, just as you have some Theories, I have a Theory too.
My Theory is that if I loosen up the genome, then I might hit some never-seen-before targets.
Things which should not exist, but will.
And then I fully expect a lot of persons to get on the Hybrid Soapbox and shreik a lot.
Just thought I should let the audience know in advance, so you can be ready.

What is so special about our Mutant Corn Snakes? Is it their purity which is their virtue?
Have somebody LIE to you and tell you a Hybrid is a new Corn Snake gene,
and you are orgasmic! Introduce a Hybrid Corn that is cooler than any Snake
you have ever seen and they are vomited on, because they are not virtuous, or not pure.

I challenges anybody to “Prove” your mutant Corn, or mutant Corn Combine is Pure Corn,
and therefore virtuous. Hunt Club Okeetee breeders excluded. I can prove my Landrace Lavas,
Landrace Sunkissed, and soon to come Landrace Anerys and Landrace Goldens, are PURE Corn Snake.
Their linage is registered in the ACR when it happened, to their wild caught parents
and is there for peer review today. Corn Snakes only exist, if we use the study of their wild populations.
This is the definition of a pure Corn Snake. Are they virtuous, causing climatic type responses for them? NO WAY.

Why so smug?
From Camby on KS:

2 years ago, emerging from a clutch of 28 eggs laid by a 3rd generation pure Okeetee locale
corn bred to another Locale Okeetee(how do I know? I caught them myself), was a spontaneous amel,
an actual honest to gosh TRUE Reverse Okeetee!
I would love to pair that one up with anyone else that has had that great good fortune.
PS The picture doesn't do her justice.
>>

I've produced albino cornsnakes from normal F1 cornsnakes captured in Jasper County near the Club, too.
I was only interested in locality Okeetee corns at the time, so I sold off that bloodline FAST.
With the THOUSANDS of captive bred cornsnakes released in that area since at least the '70s,
there is NO SURPRISE that amels, hypos, etc. keep popping up today.

We (I mean anyone who has ever herped the area) are likely catching the offspring (or F2 or F3)
from released normal corns that were carriers of one or more traits - or the actual released cornsnakes themselves
years after they were released. Sure, survival is low, but THOUSANDS have been released. ...
and many by one of the largest breeders of cornsnakes today!

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php? id=1475630,1477066&key=2008

When you get around to doing your own hybrid projects, you may find that by the time you get to the 4th or 5th
generation of crossing back into pure corns, holding back the individuals which visually show the precise color
you want to preserve, that all "hybrid Markers" disappear entirely.
What makes you so sure all of your "pure stock" is so pure?

What is WRONG with our Corn Snake community? You let yourself be lied to, to create a false illusion of purity
in our Mutant Corn Snakes, and this is what you like about Corns Snakes? Corn Snakes are the COOLEST Snake in the World,
because of the reason I work with them. They have more discovered genetic genes than any other Snake.
Corn Snake Breeders have lead the way in discovering and explaining Snake genes without question.
Other groups of Snake enthusiast model their knowledge and planning of breedings,
base upon what we have learned and shared about snake genetics. We are generations ahead of even the Ball Python World.
I talked to one at a show that had most new combines, and he could tell me some about their inheritance,
but nothing like we know about Corn Snake genes. Other Snake Worlds even use our Corn Snake names
for some of their new genes. We are defiantly the leader of the pack genetically.

Only other people lie to themselves. Save me and you.

Yellow Disease 9-9-11: http://www..com/forum/showthread.php? t=10472&highlight=Tessera

Dave, You definitely have the Yellow Disease in your breeding. Above is a thread I have started about it when
I first really noticed it. I name Rich Z and may not be completely complementary, but I state opinions and facts,
and avoid personal attacks always. I have to, to be allowed to post on this forum. I get sarcastic personal attacks to this day,
even when I do my best to avoid personal attacks. The Yellow Disease, AKA, Yellow Jacket,
Buf, and others ALL are co-dominant and have a Super as far as I can tell. I won’t say for Buf for sure,
but Yellow Jackets express a Super Yellow Jacket pheno. I did not discover it, it is everywhere.
It is in our Lavenders and Anery lines especially because it acts like a hypo, and you know everybody likes the lighter siblings.
I really LIKE YJ's on some combines, but you can't make RED with it in the mix.
I appreciate getting the YJ gene from Rich Z, now that I know what it is.

I bred California King Snakes for at least a decade. I worked mainly with Amels,
because California does not allow the sale of native species except Amels. Cal. Kings,
have a co-dominant Striped gene, and a co-dominant Yellow gene,
if I apply my knowledge now to what I bred way back when. The three possible combos would be
Striped/Striped, Striped/Banded, and Banded/Banded. The same would be true of the Yellow gene,
Yellow/Yellow, Yellow/White, and White/White. Do you think that only California King Snake genes
were moved into Corn Snakes?

Do you think that the Amel gene in both are compatible by coincidence alone?
How about one of the Cal King Lavender genes, is one compatible with our Lavender gene?
How many of the Amel King subspecies are compatible with the Corn Snake Amel gene?
Are there any that are not? Are there any Amel genes in Tri-colors that are compatible with
the Amel Corn Snake gene? YES Do you accept this as pure coincidence?
I know it is not pure coincidence, because I was there.

Why do you continue to ask me questions and then answer them for me? I am quite capable of thinking for myself.
There is clearly more than one amel gene in wild stock colubrids of North America. However, due to the absence
of melanin, there is no way to tell them apart by looking at shed skins under a microscope.

Where Color Is Concerned:
Regarding the term "co-dominance", as it has been published, and because I am Crazy Dave, I think of it a different way. I call it "Trait".
When one takes a wild-caught gray base color Miami and breeds it to a high orange-base-color wild-caught Okeetee,
the F1 yields around 20% with gray base color, around 20% with the high orange base color,
and the rest are a muddled mix somewhere in-between.
To my way of thinking, Gray base and Orange base are not specific genes at play,
but rather common trait colors. Do I call them "co-dom"? Nope.
They make themselves shown in the F1 outcross pairings not because of co-dominance,
but becuse they are commonly occuring base color.
Like strawberry, which originated with Jim S, before it was given its name, they were a few hatchlings from some red ratsnakes,
which had less melanin on them. Hypo was not in the mix. See: Linebreeding quote above.
So over time and generations of selective breeding, the trait was perfected, and eventually began to behave like a gene.
Perhaps the only way to prove this is to do the test breedings, by continously breeding a "homo co-dom" into "non-homo/non-het co-dom" lines,
holding back the visuals, and crossing those "homo co-dom" again into "non-homo/non-het co-dom" lines, and watch that published punnett predictability fail.

Dave, You definitely have the Yellow Disease in your breeding. I state opinions and facts, and avoid personal attacks always

Thanks for the diagnosis.

Do we ever get to ask the person who previously owned the original 2.1 Tesseras questions?
He also claims to have produced the first Lavender Corn Snake. Only a few, know who he is.
We could learn a lot from somebody who had them before KJ. Where is KJ now? He ask that of me.

Some how we need to hit the reset button, and ALL get on the same page.
If we can do this again, our silly Corn Snake Hobby will explode again, and cause all kinds of climatic responses.

We do know there is a Super form of Tessera, but we do not know how they will look in Striped, Motley,
Sunkissed, Bloodred and other pattern altering genes. I still say that Tesseras are SUPER in every way
and I have done nothing except look for the truth about them. I am sorry to say it,
but they are the next evolution of Corn Snake genetics. If it was man made so what.
Everything we produce is man made.

KJ has a website. I believe he's still a member here.
Perhaps your friend with questions could get a text-to- type app, there are a few of them around
if they are unable to type for themselves. If you let me know which state they reside in,
I'll invest some of my time to get together a list of resources and agencies in their area
which can assist with providing them with the tools they need to participate online.
Enabling others is something I believe in.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[fyrefocks]

DP, you have entirely too many animals already. Why don't you let me babysit baby one for you?

 

[StrangeCargo]

Wow- like Don & Nanci said--- #2 & #8 are those weird looking motley things I mentioned over the years.. I wholesaled the pnes I produced in the beginning to a local petstore thinking they weren't anything special--- we were looking for teh "tessera" look---now I see how wrong I was.

Maybe that #5 will turn out to be one of the "super" tessreas---that ONE thats in existance now (that produces 100% tesseras) was produced from orig X orig and looked just like #5 as a baby... (attached are juvenile pics of that "super" animal---or whatever it is being called these days)... I hope you hit the jackpot---you've put sooooo much work into the project.

Your friend,
Graham

 

[dave partington]

Awesome babies, Dave.
We all have seen so many Tesseras, they are somewhat passe,
but those non-Tesseras are out of this world
(as is so typical with Tessera sibs that are not Tesseras). Kudos.
I wonder if we haven't been somewhat diluting the Tessera line
by all the out-crossing (of COURSE we are)
so it's great that you have acorns that fell so close to the tree.

Wow- like Don & Nanci said---
#2 & #8 are those weird looking motley things I mentioned over the years..
I wholesaled the pnes I produced in the beginning to a
local petstore thinking they weren't anything special--
- we were looking for teh "tessera" look---now I see how wrong I was.

Maybe that #5 will turn out to be one of the "super" tessreas-
--that ONE thats in existance now (that produces 100% tesseras)
was produced from orig X orig and looked just like #5 as a baby...
(attached are juvenile pics of that "super" animal--
-or whatever it is being called these days)...
I hope you hit the jackpot--
-you've put sooooo much work into the project.

Your friend,
Graham

Thanks Don, for letting Ken come here, and have original sin.

Thanks Graham, for letting Barbie come here, & her biblical
relationship, & info on visual super-tess.
You both know if you ever want a piece of candy back just say so.
Though I'm especially enamored with "Circleback".
(You'd have to pry that out of my pinkie scented fingers).

That's what I thought when I saw
them at Daytona. Can't wait to see the non-tesseras grown up.

Thanks for the positive suggestion implantation.
I guess this will be the family tree progression thread.
Stomp that seed in and water it good.

Me too. I couldn't believe my eyes
when I saw them come out of his backpack. Stunning Dave..
T.

Thanks T. That's how I felt when they came out of the moss.

The non-tessera babies are out of

this world HOT!!!!
Almost festive? Kinda pumpkin-y!!
Great Halloween gifts Dave!

Rich, maybe you can practice with Nanci on planting seeds and stomping them in.
You can hang the trick o treat bag on the mantle but I don't think the
Great Pumpkin is coming down the chimbley any time soon. :sidestep:

Only corn morph I really don't like are lavenders lol,
and it's an appearance thing

But...you like pink things Chris.
These came out in a recent clutch.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=174991&d=1376728385.
Just give them 3 sheds. hypostrawberry lavender motleys.
Whoops, hijacking my own thread, imagine that.

Thanks everyone for the good comments and brain food.

 

[chris68]

I learned to love anery A's, I'm sure I could learn to love those . Thanks for lettin' us exercise on your thread

 

[dave partington]

OMG I bred these two 2007, I have maybe tessera overlooked. :blowup: I idiot :grin01: :grin01: :grin01:

It upsets me greatly
there is No Yellow Disease
in this hybrid.
I have a theory... :blowup: :grin01: :grin01: :grin01: