Carpe Serpentis
Hybrid Snake Lover
I came into this forum with vague memories of having heard about how hybrids are frowned on in the snake community. Admittedly, I love hybrids as many of you now know. I don't like to get into something without knowing a lot about the subject, so I ask many questions. Some of those questions are while they might not get a reaction in some places.... they get a lot of heat in the snake world. For instance, a seemingly harmless question.... Do you know if anyone is planning on hybridizing that snake if asked to another hybridizer in other circles I have been in... would simply be answered with a yes, I don't know, or a maybe. It would not be a big deal. Now, I realize that many corns have emory blood in them and who knows what else if the breeders are careful about releasing that kind of information which I can only imagine most are given the reception simple questions on the subject has garnered me. I don't look at those things as a negative, but I see many people here do. So, when I ask questions that make your blood boil or that sets emotions on fire... please realize I do this because I love snakes and I love hybridizing. I also love to learn which corn snakes are the result of hybridizing.
I am a firm believer that there is nothing natural about raising and breeding snakes out of the wild. I am a firm believer that asking questions and learning is a good thing. I am also a firm believer that creating hybrids or introducing phenotypes from one snake to another is simply what is done by hybridizers and this is why we love so many of the emory cornsnake hybrids. It gives us something new, exciting, not seen before. In short, whether we are line breeding, hybridizing, or anything else that occurs between us and a snake that is not in the wild... it is unnatural, but the creations that we can create via our carefully controlled selections versus natural selection can in fact be quite stunning. I have fallen deeply in love with some of the cornsnake line bred specimens I have seen. Starburst snows, Neon Snows, Salmon Snows, Bubblegum Snows, Champagne Snows and Tequila Sunrises... . I love them all. I'd love to ask questions about them and many other cornsnakes I have seen. I do realize that those questions given the heated answers and replies I have been given might not be truthful as I can not imagine too many here actually being honest and saying.... you know what.... this line was derived from a hybrid. Perhaps, it was done unintentionally even.... that sounds like a good as an excuse as any... as if it was done on purpose I could just hear the cannons fire. So, this secrecy that exists and yet... some few hybridizers/breeders have been open and brave enough to tell the story that they have emory blood in their line.... diluted perhaps, but its there. To these people, I salute you for your honesty. I am new to this arena and I have had the pleasure of talking to some of you in pm, others on the phone, and yes... even simply chatting here has given me some insights. Some deep seated issues are surely at hand where it concerns whether one wishes to create hybrid corns or not, but for me... there is no question that this area should not be further explored. An atmosphere of fear surrounding the desire to hybridize only silences would be hybridizers and who is to know if a new phenotype is the result of a new mutation or it has been snuck into the line and carefully line bred so as to appear pure minus the addition of that new phenotype? Within 7 generations of back breeding this is possible with most animals and all that is required is a test cross to make sure that the desired gene or genes are not lost. So, I am sorry that I ramble. I am sorry that I ask questions. I am sorry that I love hybrids and I feel the need to ask many impertinent questions... such as is this a hybrid or even... when I ask another hybridizer or someone who is knowledgeable about hybrids in the open.... a simple question... I am sorry if this inflames you. I may carry a spark of a different interest from many in here, but I may also carry the same spark that many are simply keeping quiet for fear of reprisal. I realize many of you are making a living breeding your cornsnakes and bringing attention to non-cornsnake genes in your hybrids can be potentially quite upsetting. I realize all of this and I've only been here a very short time as many of you have noticed. I realize that many would love to claim that they can prove their snakes are beyond a doubt from wild caught cornsnake of the purest of the pure that never once had any intergrade/hybrid blood introduced into its relatives... but that is just a fallacy as that is not how it works. If a hybrid/intergrade ever once occurred in a population... that hybrids dna is like a drop of food coloring in a glass of water. The effects ripple out and diffuse into the water until the effects are uniform. So, there is not a glass of water with a single drop of red food coloring, but instead there are many drops of red, blue, yellow, etc. over time.... so that pure water is never pure except perhaps in the mind of the one who thinks its pure. I'm not sure where the correct place to place this post is, but this is where I have chosen to place it. I apologize to anyone I have offended unintentionally so, but I do believe we can have differences of opinion and we can share those differences without getting upset. We should be able to ask questions... without getting upset. But, then I'm new here so what do I know?:sidestep: I love the idea of hybridizing and yes, I'll venture that I even think it may be possible to select for cornsnake temperaments that can cohabit the same enclosure. This is something that I'd love to hear about and learn about as well... but yes... I realize this is just as heated a subject area as the one before it. I'm here to learn and in the process I will make many questions that others may think are mistakes to ask, but I've always thought that the only wrong question is one that is not asked. Again, I just may be wrong in that assumption... and I apologize for rambling on so long.... where is the edit function? Insert foot in mouth and delete?
I am a firm believer that there is nothing natural about raising and breeding snakes out of the wild. I am a firm believer that asking questions and learning is a good thing. I am also a firm believer that creating hybrids or introducing phenotypes from one snake to another is simply what is done by hybridizers and this is why we love so many of the emory cornsnake hybrids. It gives us something new, exciting, not seen before. In short, whether we are line breeding, hybridizing, or anything else that occurs between us and a snake that is not in the wild... it is unnatural, but the creations that we can create via our carefully controlled selections versus natural selection can in fact be quite stunning. I have fallen deeply in love with some of the cornsnake line bred specimens I have seen. Starburst snows, Neon Snows, Salmon Snows, Bubblegum Snows, Champagne Snows and Tequila Sunrises... . I love them all. I'd love to ask questions about them and many other cornsnakes I have seen. I do realize that those questions given the heated answers and replies I have been given might not be truthful as I can not imagine too many here actually being honest and saying.... you know what.... this line was derived from a hybrid. Perhaps, it was done unintentionally even.... that sounds like a good as an excuse as any... as if it was done on purpose I could just hear the cannons fire. So, this secrecy that exists and yet... some few hybridizers/breeders have been open and brave enough to tell the story that they have emory blood in their line.... diluted perhaps, but its there. To these people, I salute you for your honesty. I am new to this arena and I have had the pleasure of talking to some of you in pm, others on the phone, and yes... even simply chatting here has given me some insights. Some deep seated issues are surely at hand where it concerns whether one wishes to create hybrid corns or not, but for me... there is no question that this area should not be further explored. An atmosphere of fear surrounding the desire to hybridize only silences would be hybridizers and who is to know if a new phenotype is the result of a new mutation or it has been snuck into the line and carefully line bred so as to appear pure minus the addition of that new phenotype? Within 7 generations of back breeding this is possible with most animals and all that is required is a test cross to make sure that the desired gene or genes are not lost. So, I am sorry that I ramble. I am sorry that I ask questions. I am sorry that I love hybrids and I feel the need to ask many impertinent questions... such as is this a hybrid or even... when I ask another hybridizer or someone who is knowledgeable about hybrids in the open.... a simple question... I am sorry if this inflames you. I may carry a spark of a different interest from many in here, but I may also carry the same spark that many are simply keeping quiet for fear of reprisal. I realize many of you are making a living breeding your cornsnakes and bringing attention to non-cornsnake genes in your hybrids can be potentially quite upsetting. I realize all of this and I've only been here a very short time as many of you have noticed. I realize that many would love to claim that they can prove their snakes are beyond a doubt from wild caught cornsnake of the purest of the pure that never once had any intergrade/hybrid blood introduced into its relatives... but that is just a fallacy as that is not how it works. If a hybrid/intergrade ever once occurred in a population... that hybrids dna is like a drop of food coloring in a glass of water. The effects ripple out and diffuse into the water until the effects are uniform. So, there is not a glass of water with a single drop of red food coloring, but instead there are many drops of red, blue, yellow, etc. over time.... so that pure water is never pure except perhaps in the mind of the one who thinks its pure. I'm not sure where the correct place to place this post is, but this is where I have chosen to place it. I apologize to anyone I have offended unintentionally so, but I do believe we can have differences of opinion and we can share those differences without getting upset. We should be able to ask questions... without getting upset. But, then I'm new here so what do I know?:sidestep: I love the idea of hybridizing and yes, I'll venture that I even think it may be possible to select for cornsnake temperaments that can cohabit the same enclosure. This is something that I'd love to hear about and learn about as well... but yes... I realize this is just as heated a subject area as the one before it. I'm here to learn and in the process I will make many questions that others may think are mistakes to ask, but I've always thought that the only wrong question is one that is not asked. Again, I just may be wrong in that assumption... and I apologize for rambling on so long.... where is the edit function? Insert foot in mouth and delete?
