• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Funny call

nwheather said:
My point is not having WC in general. All of our animals (dogs & cats included) were all WC at one point.
But when he goes ranting about how the OP killing an snake because it poses a threat affects the ecosystem, but that collecting WC animals to use for breeding does not, comes across hypocritical. Taking animals from their native habitat does affect the ecosystem.
I feel that there are times it is acceptable, even necessary (diseased animals, over population).
He appears to be looking for reasons to attack the OP.
Click to expand...

Not quite the same...
Wolves voluntarily came closer to humans because they could get food. From that point on, domestication occurred without us knowing what we know today and the effects it has on the ecosystem.

Cats domesticated themselves more than anything- it's an evolutionary first, but it has happened.

So... reptile keepers can be blamed more than dog and cat owners, basically.
 
nwheather said:
My point is not having WC in general. All of our animals (dogs & cats included) were all WC at one point.
But when he goes ranting about how the OP killing an snake because it poses a threat affects the ecosystem, but that collecting WC animals to use for breeding does not, comes across hypocritical. Taking animals from their native habitat does affect the ecosystem.
I feel that there are times it is acceptable, even necessary (diseased animals, over population).
He appears to be looking for reasons to attack the OP.
Click to expand...

If you knew anything about the AFT market, you would know new morphs are being developed and fresh blood is still available. I don't just grab females to breed, only unique animals that could prove to be something cool. All thebase corn morphs were from WC animals, so with AFTs it's the same.
 
True, Oren. That was probably a bad example.
I'm not opposed to WC animals, as long as it's done responsibly.
I'm also not opposed to removing a dangerous animal, if necessary. I hope that measures are taken to try & relocate the animal, if possible, if it poses a threat.
My point was that he was critical about the OP killing a venomous snake, & claims that taking WC animals to use for breeding does not affect the ecosystem the same. Bottom line, the animal is not longer a part of the ecosystem, regardless of live or dead. That is what I was referring to.
 
nwheather said:
True, Oren. That was probably a bad example.
I'm not opposed to WC animals, as long as it's done responsibly.
I'm also not opposed to removing a dangerous animal, if necessary. I hope that measures are taken to try & relocate the animal, if possible, if it poses a threat.
My point was that he was critical about the OP killing a venomous snake, & claims that taking WC animals to use for breeding does not affect the ecosystem the same. Bottom line, the animal is not longer a part of the ecosystem, regardless of live or dead. That is what I was referring to.
Click to expand...

Killing a snake endorses the killing of other snakes. Breeding an animal in captivity strengthens the CB population
 
I just don't understand how keeping a species for the sole purpose of breeding to strengthen a captive population translates into being a hypocrite? Killing a snake is something different than bringing in animals for the purpose of breeding? It makes no sense to me. I mean I breed to produce new morphs and to enhance the AFT market, as they are truly the next big herp. You have to have some WC blood to strengthen the CB blood. Any person who is actually heavily into breeding and knows the market will tell you this.
 
Carinata said:
I just don't understand how keeping a species for the sole purpose of breeding to strengthen a captive population translates into being a hypocrite? Killing a snake is something different than bringing in animals for the purpose of breeding? It makes no sense to me. I mean I breed to produce new morphs and to enhance the AFT market, as they are truly the next big herp. You have to have some WC blood to strengthen the CB blood. Any person who is actually heavily into breeding and knows the market will tell you this.
Click to expand...

I see a difference.
Killing a snake doesn't have much long term benefits(unless we are talking about self defense and you have no alternative), whilst strengthening a CB population can assist in preventing the further gathering of WC animals- or at the very least, reduce the scale of it.
 
I just don't understand why I'm being attacked by people who don't deal in the market I deal in, it's beyond me....
 
Carinata said:
I just don't understand why I'm being attacked by people who don't deal in the market I deal in, it's beyond me....
Click to expand...

Yet you feel justified in attacking other peoples religious beliefs, making demeaning statements. Don't worry, I have no further comments for you.
 
nwheather said:
Yet you feel justified in attacking other peoples religious beliefs, making demeaning statements. Don't worry, I have no further comments for you.
Click to expand...

You're right, my comments may have not been the most kind and gentle....I'm not that kind of person. I personally feel strongly, that religion should be left out of the reptile forum arena. I mean that's not here nor there, I want to know what you have to say about collection WC animals legally, that doesn't have an affect on the ecosystem (according to CITES).
 
I'm just gonna say 2 things:

1) I share Heather's views.

2) "my comments may have not been the most kind and gentle....I'm not that kind of person". Maybe it's time to make the attempt to be polite, at the very least? It seems to me that getting confrontational with people you don't agree with isn't nearly as likely to make them inclined to see your point of view (or agree with it) as being polite would be. People whose passions put them into the realm of fanaticism don't care what they say or do. Most "other" people tend to shy away from fanatics, and often for good reason.
 
If you think I am in this for the money, why would I work for a reptile breeder? If I was in it for the money why would I want to deal with reptiles ALL day? Yep, your logic really seems top make sense!
 
Carinata said:
If you think I am in this for the money, why would I work for a reptile breeder? If I was in it for the money why would I want to deal with reptiles ALL day? Yep, your logic really seems top make sense!
Click to expand...

If you are not in it for the money then why don't you run a reptile rescue?
 
Carinata said:
Because I have a vested interest in expanding the AFT market, creating new morphs and strengthening bloodlines.
Click to expand...

but not making money?
do you sell your animals at the cost where you break even?
do you love the animals, or the thrill of making that new morph?
tell both sides of the story not one side, people will respect you a lot more if you reveal the whole picture and not try to play a holier than thou attitude

when criticize someone else for something you don't agree with then
you can't understand why you are criticized then you need to come to the realization that not everyone is cut from the same cookie cutter, what a boring world that would be
 
gelshark said:
but not making money?
do you sell your animals at the cost where you break even?
do you love the animals, or the thrill of making that new morph?
tell both sides of the story not one side, people will respect you a lot more if you reveal the whole picture and not try to play a holier than thou attitude

when criticize someone else for something you don't agree with then
you can't understand why you are criticized then you need to come to the realization that not everyone is cut from the same cookie cutter, what a boring world that would be
Click to expand...

I do price my animals competitively, to avoid crashing the market. I love AFTs, they are very cool animals, and yes I do get a thrill out of being the only person in the world to have a certain morph. And yes I make money, everyone likes money. If I can breed some awesome animals, make a name for myself in the industry, AND make some money....well that doesn't sound to bad! You can't tell me people who do this for a living are only in it for the money, because honestly the money isn't that great. You would make more money doing a variety of other things. I understand criticism and I take it very well from people who's logical makes some sort of sense. All of the reptiles we keep today came from WC stock, so anyone who owns reptiles should understand the value in adding new blood to a CB line that is just beginning to blossom.
 
Kokopelli said:
Why is that even worth noting? Would it be different had an Asian guy been involved?
Click to expand...

gelshark said:
Why is that even worth noting? Would it be different had a younger woman been involved?
Click to expand...

Why was it worth noting that they were a man or woman at all? Honestly some people are way too sensitive about some things...it does not make someone racist to say "a black man" nor does it make someone prejudiced against elderly people to say "an older woman".
 
Daenerys said:
Why was it worth noting that they were a man or woman at all? Honestly some people are way too sensitive about some things...it does not make someone racist to say "a black man" nor does it make someone prejudiced against elderly people to say "an older woman".
Click to expand...

I'm out of rep, but that was my point. I feel that people nowadays are too eager to be offended.


Carinata said:
I do price my animals competitively, to avoid crashing the market. I love AFTs, they are very cool animals, and yes I do get a thrill out of being the only person in the world to have a certain morph. And yes I make money, everyone likes money. If I can breed some awesome animals, make a name for myself in the industry, AND make some money....well that doesn't sound to bad! You can't tell me people who do this for a living are only in it for the money, because honestly the money isn't that great. You would make more money doing a variety of other things. I understand criticism and I take it very well from people who's logical makes some sort of sense. All of the reptiles we keep today came from WC stock, so anyone who owns reptiles should understand the value in adding new blood to a CB line that is just beginning to blossom.
Click to expand...

I can accept all of that except the part about the logical statement. People are not solely logical creatures. We base a lot of things we do out of emotions, and trying to subtract the emotions from the human will make us the animals. That's probably the reason why you dismissed the logical reason for someone killing a venomous snake that might (even if the chances are near zero) do harm to the life of a dog, or cat or a child. I understand that you are passionate about snakes, and I feel the same way, if I were to be in charge of removing a snake from someones property, I would do everything I could to avoid killing it, but I understand the logic that other people use is not the same that I use and that to lose too much of my cool in trying to convince the other that mine is correct will only lead to the other person having a stronger conviction of their own already established logic. I know that the second a person calls me stupid for believing in something that I believe in, I will no longer listen to the argument for why I am wrong, no matter how wrong I possibly could be.
 
My take on it is this..the guy keeps snakes. The guy obviously LIKES snakes. If he deems a certain snake kill-worthy I am sure he has a good reason. People who like snakes don't take to killing them lightly......
 
gelshark said:
I'm out of rep, but that was my point. I feel that people nowadays are too eager to be offended.
Click to expand...

Ah ok lol I was a bit miffed at the black guy comment and then when I saw yours I was like totally shocked that someone would get upset about that too! Glad to know you weren't serious hahah.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top