Something Worth Noting (Please Read!)

[Sayjoo13]

As a new time snake owner, I've been reading through A LOT of these threads and learning a lot of useful information. Almost all of my questions have been answered without me even having to post them because they have already been answered in other people's threads.

That being said, I think it should be noted for anyone giving advice that, as a new time snake owner, I am less likely to take note of someone's advice in a thread if people start name calling, saying other people show stupidity/lack in knowledge, etc. I really don't want to miss out on some good information just because it may be presented in a bad way. I've seen this on several different posts, and just thought maybe I'd bring it to people's attention that it makes people like me (I don't know if I'm the only one or not) disregard information presented in that post solely because it loses credibility due to low blows at other people on the forum.

My experience on this site has been GREAT so far with lots of friendly people and good advice! I just thought I'd give my two cents as a newcomer in regards to the few "scuffles" I've seen on here. I love reading different opinions about the same topic because it gives me a broad view and information to make my own decision, but I just think people should realize the way that they present their view may make a big difference on whether or not people take that information to heart.

:sobstory:​

 

[Stefanie]

... I've seen this on several different posts, and just thought maybe I'd bring it to people's attention that it makes people like me (I don't know if I'm the only one or not) disregard information presented in that post solely because it loses credibility due to low blows at other people on the forum. ...

You are not the only one!

And I very much agree with you. Once people start sniping across the forums with less than friendly remarks I'm least likely to take what they say to heart, even if they might be right.

Thanks for summing that up!




PS: Is sniping even a word? /shrug

 

[chris68]

well, a different...way to view it...

The flip side of this is a lot of members have been online here for years and "know" each other. A certain amount of "heated disagreements" are going to be held, and jmho should be had. I completely agree, the sniping, belittling, better than thou because I read so and so's book attitudes goes in opposition to what this (any) forum is about but there is a line between the two. This site has always been well modded, number one because of the mods but a close second is the way it has always been modded "with a deft touch"

Until Rich steps in and squashes something :crazy02:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I've been here for years but I still see what these guys are saying. I've actually been posting a lot less because even though I am an old timer and veteran breeder and I have totally paid my dues, I feel sort of disrespected sometimes too, especially by people who have been in the hobby for far less time but act like they know a lot more. It didn't used to be so bad either. It's little things but a whole bunch of little things can add up enough to make you just not want to bother anymore.


There is a nice way to tell people stuff and a not so nice way, either way you are giving them the same info. I do want new people here to stay. I personally know of a few people that won't post here anymore and it makes me sad. Especially when it gets so bad a mod gives someone an infraction and they are actually PROUD of that... Not naming names but whatever, you know what I mean.

 

[Stormy]

I've been here for years but I still see what these guys are saying. I've actually been posting a lot less because even though I am an old timer and veteran breeder and I have totally paid my dues, I feel sort of disrespected sometimes too, especially by people who have been in the hobby for far less time but act like they know a lot more. It didn't used to be so bad either. It's little things but a whole bunch of little things can add up enough to make you just not want to bother anymore.

I have to agree here. I havent been here for years, but I have been posting less ever since some members got it in their heads to call me and some other people I have seen do posts some not so nice things. I still read, post in some threads but not as much as I once did.

 

[Outcast]

I admit that when I feel like I am attacked while trying to give information to individuals, who asked for the information, I tend to get caught up in an argumentative mood. But, I am trying to work on it, and I have noticed that many of the more long time members tend to look in on the questions and give answers that us "newbies" haven't already given.

I can tell you that I got into a few scuffles with some old timers here when I first started posting, over things like hybridization and such. But now those same people who I had disagreements with I think of as friends. I take what I can from people, and try to give back as much as I can. If I do not know an answer for something I generally treat the question the same as I do at work, I find someone who knows, or I search for the answer and then give what my searching has turned up.

I may have a straight forward, in-your-face, way of saying things sometimes. I tend to blame it on being EOD for four years in the Air Force. Back then if what I said wasn't understood, people died or got injured. I still haven't worked out of that way of speaking, and it gets me in trouble, quite a bit....LOL

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I seem to recall a few posts about the necessity of euthanizing that ended poorly. ( I feel it's sometimes necessary, others feel every baby should get a chance to live and go to a "pet only" home. ) In the end I just had to learn to accept that you can't convince everyone and it just isn't worth trying. But I probably managed to upset a few people before I learned to keep mouth shut. They are going to do what they are going to do no matter what I think.

Those hot button issues like euthanization, cohabbing, feeding live, etc have been hashed and rehashed. Yes there is a danger and people should know about it. But no I don't think it's OK for several older members to dogpile onto a thread as I see happen almost every time. Once ONE member has come forward and explained the dangers (your snakes could eat each other, the mouse might bite it, or whatever) that should be enough. What I often see is like 12 replies saying the same thing until the newbie's nose has been so thoroughly rubbed into their mistake that they leave in disgust. Remember they sometimes get bad advice from pet stores. Maybe best to stay away from these kinds of threads if you feel so passionate about the subject that you can't be civil.

 

[jessicalb]

I'm not a huge poster here, so maybe I am missing something, but I'm seeing something different going on. Typically a new poster comes in and asks about something controversial, often with a side note indicating they know everyone thinks this is a bad idea but they really really want to do it this way so it's fine right? Then one or a few people correct facts and make suggestions, in a straightforward manner but not rudely. Then the original poster freaks out about tone and the thread devolves into WHY IS EVERYONE HERE SO MEAN???

New people come here and cope with honest, straightforward information all the time. I don't believe that the people offering help and suggestions should have to spend more energy on tone than information, and I don't believe it will help. People who are defensive or ready for a fight aren't going to be able to hear anything that contradicts their point of view no matter how gently stated.

Anyway, that's my POV. I appreciate the quick and clear corrections when I have made a mistake, and I would hate to see that kind of informative posting disappear in the name of tone.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Agreed, some people are asking for it. or are just plain being trolls. If someone comes here with a 'tude like this they deserve it right back. But I've also seen enough people go away and not come back that didn't seem that bad of a person, just misinformed. Tone is important to a lot of people, who wants to come to a forum where they feel as if people are being condescending?

I saw a post by Rich Z someplace where he said it would be a good idea for some of us to go join a forum on something we don't know so much about and make a few posts so we get a sense of what it feels like from the other side, when YOU are the newbie asking questions and trying to learn instead of the all knowing old timer correcting the newbie. Just puts things in perspective.

I like the way Kathy Love handles the controversial topics, She gives the facts, discusses the issue, in the nicest way and after reading her post you feel enlightened but not like you just got scolded and your flaws pointed out for all to see.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

This is what he said

I do not want that to happen here. I strongly suggest everyone become a newbie on a site somewhere and see what I am talking about. See how you react when someone who apparently does know the answer just slaps you across the face with something like "Use the search function...".

Point of the matter is that this is a DISCUSSION forum. That means people DISCUSSING topics is encouraged, not discouraged. That includes topics that have been discussed before. If it irritates some to read new threads asking about old topics, well, there is nothing on this earth forcing you to read those threads. Go read something else. Please don't piss off the new members with rude statements and comments made simply because YOU have been here longer than they have and it's old hat to you. Think about how it was when YOU were new into this, and how YOU would have felt being slapped like that simply for asking about your new interest. That is not the atmosphere that I want to encourage in this site.

I would hope longtime members here would see beyond their own needs and wants and view things from someone else's eyes. If you choose to not help some newbie, that is fine, but please don't be a wet blanket to their own enthusiasm in the process. This is their site, too.

If anybody wants to read the whole thread it is here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111616
I've had my say. But I think I'm just beating a dead horse so bleh.

 

[Tavia]

I pretty much agree with all the points already mentioned and have nothing more to really add. But to get my few blows in on the horse, like was said, it does seem that there has been an upswing in trollish new members or ones that just don't want to listen to advice. It's a bit unfair, because people are already irritated over the last few troll newbies they'd dealt with that day that it is harder to be as nice as they normally would be to the simply misinformed or ignorant new person who is willing to learn. And sometimes it is difficult to distinguish which is which, so they give up answering all questions. I know I've been somewhat guilty of that the last little while.

 

[Tatile]

I think with regards to trolls that once the question has been answered truthfully and that either the troll's colours have come through or they've been otherwise identified as a troll, it would be best to leave the thread alone (as tempting as it is to poke them, or hit them, or flay them; I've done that in the past and hate the fact that I have) and it be brought to the attention of the mods.

The one thing I have noticed about this forum, which isn't a complaint by the by, is that the moderators seem to not lock threads as often as happens on other forums. I'm guessing that's because the community here at CornSnakes is so tightly-knit; there's another forum I frequent which is similarly tight-kint and equally devoid of locked or overtly moderated threads. This is merely an observation and not a question of moderation standards, in fact I find it to be a good example of how a forum should be.

 

[Nanci]

The moderators have been instructed not to lock threads unless there is no other choice. We also do not edit or delete, except in the case of extreme profanity, in which case offending words may be starred. Rich would rather remove a troublemaker than force everyone to stop the discussion by locking a thread. This forum _is_ different.

 

[Tatile]

I hadn't realised that those were your orders, I had thought that the root cause was something else.

 

[Nanci]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it "orders!" More like a philosophy.

 

[Tatile]

Having studied philosophy, I dislike using the term for what is essentially a code of ethics based on (anticipated) mutual respect, hence "orders". I'm still learning the ins and outs of this forum. I like smaller forums because the tend to be a lot nicer than their larger counterparts, but they do require a lot of observation to understand.

 

[Darcpixie]

As someone who went and joined a forum that I knew little about, I wonder at this need people have to post right away?

I joined a planted tank forum and posted twice. About a seller. You know what I did the rest of the time?

Read. Searched. Read more.

What is with this need to create an account and post 6 times in half an hour? Then suddenly wonder where they went awry and why everyone is so mean?

Burn out on newbies wanting pats on the back for doing it wrong IS understandable. But STOP REPLYING. Go breathe. Get a snake out. Clean tubs. Come back and ask yourself "am I doing this for the snake?".

To all the newbies: READ MORE. Use the search function. Read. The amount of info here is insane, and you'll get detailed, up close, in your face accounts of almost all scenarios just by searching!! So please, temper your questions. Asking "did I interpret this thread/issue/gene combo correctly" will draw so much more positive response then "I feed in viv because I like to!"

If you look at my post history, and ignore the gross stuff, you'll see the newbie-hater smackdowns I have delivered in the past.

Really, my only question is... Where are the pictures?!?

 

[Lennycorn]

Good point. I do remember reading a lot too when I joined I got hooked on the Archive (but we won't go there). It's all here.

And I guess a few... need to get up and handle a snake too.

 

[Darcpixie]

*mumbles something about my lawn*

I don't post much. Probably a good thing. But, if you are new and ASKING a husbandry question, what is the point of replying to the posters with "x said y so I think I'll z"?

Either you knew or you didn't. Polling the members then telling us you'll just do it the wrong way is frequently taken as thumbing your nose at us. Not always taken well.

Here's a thought... If you're gonna do it anyway, keep that info on the other side of your fingertips. DON'T tell us! If you wanna go experiment a few years, sure, but stop the "doin' it anyway!! Neener!!" posts!

Also, more pictures. Get off my lawn!!

 

[Susan]

I pretty much agree with all that's been said and would just like to add that no one is being forced to read any post/thread nor is anyone being forced to respond to any post/thread.

Sometimes I simply don't understand what compels some members to keep beating that poor dead horse when they know darn good and well that it's dead and has been dead for the past 4 days. Maybe they think some miracle is going to happen and that horse is going to get up again, that their personal beating style is so perfect that the horse MUST get up or else the world is going to end.

Also, why do others that haven't been involved at all for the past 5 days and 187 posts later need to put in their $0.02 and just repeat, yet again, exactly what 10 others members have been saying during the entire thread ad nauseum.

The majority of the members of this forum are very intelligent people, yet the trolls are still able to find your button and you let them push it over and over again. Maybe it's like slowing down to view the accident. Blood and guts fascinate us and we're addicted to it, even if it's our own blood and guts or those of a family member.