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The US flag is offensive ...

First off, their are no benefits strictly because of your race. 50 Cent doesn't get checks at the beginning of the month just because he's black and his ancestors suffered slavery. People who get government assistance get it for financial reasons, or because their suffering has otherwise been validated for other reasons. Where this is all forgotten, I don't know. As for your ancestors being murdered by colonials, that's a terrible point. Unless your father was hosed down and attacked by police dogs for fighting for his freedom as an individual, you really can't compare. Slavery has been gone for some time, but racism and segregation are issues that have only even been evaluated since the 1960's. I'm not expecting anyone here to change their opinions because of my post, but I at least urge people to try and understand things under the surface, and in a much deeper context. For starters, study up on your civil rights history. Read the biography of Martin Luther King Jr.

I think deep down people like to debate this issue, because of a feeling inside that they have the will to overcome, in their minds, this "invisible" plight still left from slavery. We all just want to blame a group of people for not getting what we want out of life. Suddenly welfare is the reason your depressed, because all your "hard-earned" cash is being wasted on what some consider lazy minorities. This philosophy is nothing new. "Their taking our jobs!."; "Their the ones bringing all the drugs into this country!."; "Look at the crime rates, minorities commit the most crimes!.". It's just another tactic to pawn your dis-satisfaction with your life on an easy target. Would if we could gain the capacity to think deeper, we might start asking the serious questions; "What job's are the ones being taken?.", Who's buying and using most of these drug's?.", "Why are minorities targeted by law enforcement at such a higher rate?.".

I'm sure if more people would be objective in this topic and actually tried to learn about our not so distant history, we would be better for it. Just my opinions, but that's what this forum is for I suppose!.

Ricky, that’s a good post. You made some well thought out points that I don’t agree with entirely but I can see you have given it some good thought.

All down through history people have done some terrible things to each other. It is so prevalent through out history that I’m afraid that being horrific is part of human nature. I saw a show on discovery that suggested that modern man may have used Neanderthal man as slaves. In Africa tribes from one nation raid the tribes from other nations and take their young men for slaves. American Indians did the same thing. Romans enslaved the Jews.

I think it is safe to say that humans have done some things that we wish we hadn’t. But fact is, we don’t practice slavery today and would go to war to prevent others from doing it. As bad as slavery is, I can’t spend the rest of my life feeling guilty for something neither I nor any of my ancestors participated in. I think we need to take slavery off this table as it is not an issue today. We don’t need to fix that problem any more.

I think to tell TME that she can’t compare the tragic events that happened to her ancestors to others is shallow and short sited. To say you can’t feel my pain the way I do is a lame argument. Her ancestors were probably feeling pretty picked on just before they died. They probably would have liked some government assistance.

You are right that we need to be careful when we use big words to encompass more than we intend. To say black people are lazy or Mexicans are responsible for the drug traffic is very wrong. But it is equally wrong to say that black people are at a disadvantage and require help. Equally wrong to say that white people should provide that help. If you go on any campus in this nation you will find many many black people who would be very insulted if you insinuated that they wouldn’t be there if not for government assistance or some other special consideration. The blacks I have met on university campuses are very hard working, dedicated young people who are very proud of their accomplishments in being where they are today.

I saw a study that said that 75% of the people involved in fatal car crashes had eaten carrots sometime during the previous week. Why aren’t we doing something about carrots?

It’s easy to read statistics the way that supports our beliefs. All Mexicans are not responsible for drug trafficking but the fact is most of the drugs in America are coming across the Mexican boarder and we would be foolish to ignore that fact. Why are so many arrests made on minority people? Well maybe it’s because so many crimes are committed by minority people. That’s not a big leap. Is this because the police are raciest? Are you suggesting we should make more of an effort to arrest white people? That is the solution Affirmative Action would suggest. I don’t see that as a solution.

That bottom line, Ricky, is that the world is a much better place than it was. The fact that you and I are having this discussion is testament to that. We are not perfect but there isn’t an “invisible” hatred holding anyone back. There are unenlightened individuals that are not up to speed yet. But to constantly shine the light on them is more detrimental to your cause than helpful. People are tired of poor me. Rodney King was a poor example of humanity. It sparked a huge civil right movement. But that was then, in today’s news people see all these black people in New Orleans saying why didn’t the gov give me more, sooner?

It’s time to move on Ricky.

I don't know what the future may hold, but I know who holds the future.
Ralph Abernathy


Holy crap, did you see how much I wrote. I wish my english teacher could see this. I think I spelled everything right too.
 
If you go on any campus in this nation you will find many many black people who would be very insulted if you insinuated that they wouldn’t be there if not for government assistance or some other special consideration. The blacks I have met on university campuses are very hard working, dedicated young people who are very proud of their accomplishments in being where they are today.
Good post, I'll give credit where it is due, and this post was thought out this time. But this quote is exactly the point, and a lot of what I've had a problem with is insinuating that minorities somehow get a free ride through college, and wouldn't be there without the help of white people.
It's like everyone complains and moans about paying welfare for unmotivated minorities, yet they'll still complain about affirmative action, like they pay for schooling for motivated minorities working their way through college. It seems like a relatively common theme of some white people, to think that they provide for the welfare to "unmotivated" minorities, and that they also are the reason minorities are able to go to school, like some handout.
Minorities have to pay for people on welfare as well, so why do so many people treat it like minorities only take from the system. I'm all for people rising beyond their situation, and making no excuses, I don't make any for myself. But when I see people ignoring why things are the way they are, it bothers me. We can't pretend like certain systems are no longer needed, like we're so removed from inequality that no one needs assistance anymore. This whole debate started over the post my Regit, and the comments quoted by Michael Richards, as though it was true and fitting for this debate. Read that post, and tell me it's not all complete garbage.
 
It seems like a relatively common theme of some white people, to think that they provide for the welfare to "unmotivated" minorities, and that they also are the reason minorities are able to go to school, like some handout.

Mike, may I call you Mike, I will give your whole argument more weight when you can stop using terms like “white people”.

I have no problem giving help to those in need. I have no patients for the unmotivated of any color. I do have a problem with hand out programs aimed at any minority if it is based on the color of their skin or their country of origin. There needs to be a criterion better than that to make you eligible. If you want true equality in this world then you need to stop focusing on the “white people” “black people” and start looking at helping out the people.

I have never met Robbie. I have been reading his posts for a long time and I feel comfortable in saying that he seems to be a hard working individual. He is really trying to work his way through school and to better himself. He is really trying hard to find a job and appears willing to take any job he can find. If anyone in this country deserves a hand, why doesn’t Robbie? Why should he be hampered and held back because of the color of his skin? How is that equitable?
 
As for your ancestors being murdered by colonials, that's a terrible point. Unless your father was hosed down and attacked by police dogs for fighting for his freedom as an individual, you really can't compare.

What? I'm assuming that Stef has Indian/Native American/Vanishing American ancestry. I do too. I'm not going to pretend that I identify strongly with the culture of my ancestors' tribe, but your comments sure hit me wrong. Slavery's bad. Persecution is bad. Genocide is really bad too.

Maybe you think that police dogs and hoses are worse than guns, forced relocation, and biological sabotage (e.g., smallpox-infected blankets), but I don't agree. I'm a little surprised that you would trivialize the plight of the Indians, at least in comparison to the plight of Blacks, when both groups have suffered so much. But still, presently and historically, the American Indian has suffered much more in this country than any other ethnic group.

Of course, there are unpleasant truths to be considered before you can start generalizing and finger-pointing. Indian tribes sold each other out, black Africans of some groups captured and sold black Africans of other groups. It's hard to play the blame game when it seems that just about any group will do just about anything if there is opportunity for gain.
 
What? I'm assuming that Stef has Indian/Native American/Vanishing American ancestry. I do too. I'm not going to pretend that I identify strongly with the culture of my ancestors' tribe, but your comments sure hit me wrong. Slavery's bad. Persecution is bad. Genocide is really bad too.

Maybe you think that police dogs and hoses are worse than guns, forced relocation, and biological sabotage (e.g., smallpox-infected blankets), but I don't agree. I'm a little surprised that you would trivialize the plight of the Indians, at least in comparison to the plight of Blacks, when both groups have suffered so much. But still, presently and historically, the American Indian has suffered much more in this country than any other ethnic group.

Of course, there are unpleasant truths to be considered before you can start generalizing and finger-pointing. Indian tribes sold each other out, black Africans of some groups captured and sold black Africans of other groups. It's hard to play the blame game when it seems that just about any group will do just about anything if there is opportunity for gain.
Trust me, I in no way trivialize the plight of Native-Americans, or any other racial or religious sect. I differentiate nothing between the struggles of a particular group, if their struggle is just. Believe me, if I could have it be so that all people were entitled to the respect and caring that they deserve I would, but their is no disguising the perception of African-Americans, Hispanics, and Muslims in our society. My points are relevant to today's world, and for the "here and now" people have particular resentment to these three groups. Same thing with homo-sexuality, though it is a different circumstance.

Where some people only see injustice in the large scales of slavery, or immigration, or the issue of same-sex marriage, I see that their are things between the lines that cause the most conflict. Yes slavery has been abolished for some time, but the wealth of those slave-drivers has in no way matriculated back to the people it affected. Their has never been a war on racism as a behavior, and as long as people are quiet about their views it's accepted. If we as a nation are so beyond the days of slavery, and prejudice, than how come same-sex marriage is prohibited?. Why is the Koran seen as the anti-thesis of the bible?. Why aren't Hispanics given the same right to live in a free country as we are?. The answer is that we grade people on different levels. Seeing as how marriage has been between a man and woman for 2,000 years, why should we change that for people who "choose" to be gay, right?. A majority feel this way, and it's no secret that the average hetero-sexual white male has the most freedom in our society. Why pretend?. To be politically correct, or to accept the payoff you receive if you just ignore it. Look at Sonya Sotomayor, she spoke the truth and now people are all in a fit, because they resent the idea that they are less rounded. People want all the benefit's of privilege, but when someone say's they've lost a more valuable judgement in return they get upset. It doesn't have to be that way; people in privileged situations could use that as a platform to evolve personally, but that's where capital gain interferes. It's like a whiny child at the bank; "If your quiet I'll get you an ice cream". That way the parent doesn't ever have to spend time explaining to the child the importance of composure, and the respect for another persons peace of mind. Chain reaction, and in a nut-shell, that's how this all is. Again, just my opinion, but for what it's worth that's how I see it!.
 
...I saw a study that said that 75% of the people involved in fatal car crashes had eaten carrots sometime during the previous week. Why aren’t we doing something about carrots?...
Just great Wade. I had carrots yesterday now I have to call in sick all week so I don't have to drive. :roflmao:
 
Trust me, I in no way trivialize the plight of Native-Americans, or any other racial or religious sect.
I believe you, but your "hose/dogs" quote did seem to imply that the Blacks' plight has been worse. I don't agree. I DID specify that I thought you were trivializing the Indians' plight in comparison to that of Blacks.

I differentiate nothing between the struggles of a particular group, if their struggle is just. Believe me, if I could have it be so that all people were entitled to the respect and caring that they deserve I would, but their is no disguising the perception of African-Americans, Hispanics, and Muslims in our society. My points are relevant to today's world, and for the "here and now" people have particular resentment to these three groups. Same thing with homo-sexuality, though it is a different circumstance.

Well, don't worry so much about the Hispanics-- they will have their day here in the U.S.!

I'm not sure what can be acheived by this discussion. Societies change; the underdogs sometimes become top dogs; the mighty fall; the persistent rise. I look forward to the day when true equality will be the norm, but it isn't going to be tomorrow, and it may never happen at all. History isn't on that concept's side. Divisiveness won't hasten its coming.

Where some people only see injustice in the large scales of slavery, or immigration, or the issue of same-sex marriage, I see that their are things between the lines that cause the most conflict. Yes slavery has been abolished for some time, but the wealth of those slave-drivers has in no way matriculated back to the people it affected.

When has this ever happened in history? And if it did, how long did that take? I have significant Gallic ancestry, and the Romans did a number on the Gauls, including extermination, territory expansion, and slavery. Did my French ancestors ever recoup the wealth amassed by the Romans at their expense? Probably not. They were assimilated.

Their has never been a war on racism as a behavior, and as long as people are quiet about their views it's accepted. If we as a nation are so beyond the days of slavery, and prejudice, than how come same-sex marriage is prohibited?.

Because we're not beyond it. We probably never will be. We could all be blue-skinned and we'd find something to divide us. That's not an American failing, it's a human one.

Why is the Koran seen as the anti-thesis of the bible?.
Who REALLY reads the Koran and the Bible (which you failed to capitalize)? Do you? Without Wikipedia, can you tell me the differences and similarities? Not that it matters to me all that much. The Koran is a knock-off of the Old Testament, which is a knock-off of dozens of older stories. Why people cling so tightly to either is beyond me.

Why aren't Hispanics given the same right to live in a free country as we are?.

If you're talking about THIS free country, then I guess we'd have to discuss the general concept of political boundaries. I'm not anti-immigrant, but a state has to secure its borders and residency requirements to SOME degree.

The answer is that we grade people on different levels.

I don't think that's exactly the answer to all the questions you posed. People like people who are like them. People fear people who are not like them. Good luck combatting that.

Seeing as how marriage has been between a man and woman for 2,000 years, why should we change that for people who "choose" to be gay, right?. A majority feel this way, and it's no secret that the average hetero-sexual white male has the most freedom in our society. Why pretend?.

It may be semantic, but I'd have felt better if you had stated that the average hswm had the most opportunity. But even then, opportunity isn't static. In 1930, being an hswm was an incredible advantage if you were looking for a spot on the Supreme Court. In 2009, it is obviously NOT advantageous to be a white male. I'm not crying about it, only illustrating that opportunities change.

To be politically correct, or to accept the payoff you receive if you just ignore it. Look at Sonya Sotomayor, she spoke the truth and now people are all in a fit, because they resent the idea that they are less rounded. People want all the benefit's of privilege, but when someone say's they've lost a more valuable judgement in return they get upset. It doesn't have to be that way; people in privileged situations could use that as a platform to evolve personally, but that's where capital gain interferes. It's like a whiny child at the bank; "If your quiet I'll get you an ice cream". That way the parent doesn't ever have to spend time explaining to the child the importance of composure, and the respect for another persons peace of mind. Chain reaction, and in a nut-shell, that's how this all is. Again, just my opinion, but for what it's worth that's how I see it!.

You lost me.
 
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Societies change;
I've followed this thread with interest....
But to pick up on a point that Deano made, and going back to another point in this thread.... And being the Devils advocate.......
You can't keep harping back and blaming.....
50 cent has slavery to thank for his position in todays world....
Without slavery you wouldn't of had, Slave songs....
Blues,
to
Rock n roll....... etc which has led to hip hop.... house........ rap etc...... 50 Cent would still be at home..... With nowhere near the wealth he has now.......
This isn't condoning slavery, but that was eons ago...... Lets see what positive things have happened since.
 
Yup, sounds a lot like the UK at the moment.

Makes me sick to my core.

A friend of mine was driving through London, and a police officer (white) asked him to stop. He did so, and asked why. The officer told him that it was because he was displaying a Union Flag on his parcel shelf. He was speechless, and again asked why. The officer said that it was offensive to minorities. I'm sorry, but if you find our flag to be offensive, then why are you living in our country? Oh yeah, that's right, to leech off our benefits and healthcare system.
 
Yup, sounds a lot like the UK at the moment.

Makes me sick to my core.

A friend of mine was driving through London, and a police officer (white) asked him to stop. He did so, and asked why. The officer told him that it was because he was displaying a Union Flag on his parcel shelf. He was speechless, and again asked why. The officer said that it was offensive to minorities. I'm sorry, but if you find our flag to be offensive, then why are you living in our country? Oh yeah, that's right, to leech off our benefits and healthcare system.
Thanks Dave for the direct referral to the OP.
But anyway....the original story, and your short and to the point account of your experience....mystifies me.
Those particular cops would be very busy in the US South, with trying to keep track of all the confederate (southern Civil War) flags.
Yes, they would be very busy. LOL.
Not that I have one, because I don't, but I'm guessing there are people out there offended by the rainbow bumper stickers and rainbow rear window stickers that all symbolize gay pride. I told my grandfather that they just meant peace and that everyone should get along.
He said 'well, I guess that's a good thing'. :D ;)
 
The Irish part of my ancestry wants to make some comments about "equality" and "racism" and how well the "white race" has always had it in this country, but my German ancestry has the majority vote and wants to remain silent.
 
"Has it been long enough since slavery for african-americans to catch up in wealth, status, and equality?". The answer; NO WAY!.

Slavery encompasses the most extreme of Americas vicious history, but civil rights have only been in our history for more than 40 years. I mean, Rodney King is still a young man, so the claim that it's been 200+ years is off the mark, in my opinion.

To answer the first question, YES, it has been. The one thing I really do hate is when minority groups, such as African Americans in this particular example, say that because they were enslaved for longer than they've been free, they're still entitled the reparations. To that, I have one comparison to make.
Look at the Jewish people. They were enslaved for many hundreds of years by near every middle-eastern race (Egyptians, Romans, etc, etc, etc), and I don't hear them complaining NEARLY as much as the average minority today. After every round of enslavement (because there was more than one), they picked themselves up, and said "Okay, now that we're free, what can we do to help ourselves?" They didn't depend on a governmental handout system. They did what they could for THEMSELVES. In general, the Jewish people have had more hardships than the African American race ever did. I don't seem to ever recall hearing about a mass African genocide resulting in the deaths of MILLIONS of people over a few year period.

Some of us have evolved since the times of slavery and our families values are based on all human equality, but these families are the minority. Look at gay rights. I'm not comparing being an african-american to being a homo-sexual, but the oppression is there. Personally, I would have all people have not only equal rights, but equal respect. Judging by popular vote, though, a majority dis-agree. Sad but true. All I can say is that until your a latin-american, or an african-american, or a muslim, or a homo-sexual living in our society the most you can do to judge their struggles is speculate!.

Been there, done that. Since you brought homosexuality into this, where's the "homosexuals only" scholarships? Where's the NAALGTBQP? Where's the ULGTBQCF? They don't exist. Trust me, I've looked. So if we're going to be classified as a minority, where's all of those foundations and resources? Oh right. I'm still white.

OT, a friend of mine was telling me about their african-american friend from high school. They applied for an african-american scholarship - since they were from africa - but couldn't get it because they were white. In fact, of the 5 people I know who where born & grew up in Africa, 100% of them are white.

Cool accent too.

OT repsonse: South African accents are wonderful. There was a girl I went to school with who was born and raised in South Africa, and she was white as white could be. LOL. But she did have that cool accent. And she brought in empty ostrich eggs. That was really kinda cool.

First off, their are no benefits strictly because of your race. 50 Cent doesn't get checks at the beginning of the month just because he's black and his ancestors suffered slavery. People who get government assistance get it for financial reasons, or because their suffering has otherwise been validated for other reasons.

Please read the bolded statement above. That, I do agree with. What I don't agree with is how hard it is to get for someone that's in a financially unstable situation (like myself at the moment) that isn't a minority to qualify for that assistance. Now read the underlined portion. Who's "validating" the suffering? If that's true, I want my suffering deserved government assistance. Oh, and I call a complete BS on the first statement.

I think deep down people like to debate this issue, because of a feeling inside that they have the will to overcome, in their minds, this "invisible" plight still left from slavery. We all just want to blame a group of people for not getting what we want out of life. Suddenly welfare is the reason your depressed, because all your "hard-earned" cash is being wasted on what some consider lazy minorities. This philosophy is nothing new. "Their taking our jobs!."; "Their the ones bringing all the drugs into this country!."; "Look at the crime rates, minorities commit the most crimes!.". It's just another tactic to pawn your dis-satisfaction with your life on an easy target. Would if we could gain the capacity to think deeper, we might start asking the serious questions; "What job's are the ones being taken?.", Who's buying and using most of these drug's?.", "Why are minorities targeted by law enforcement at such a higher rate?.".

Again, please read the bolded statement. The only ones I ever really do complain about are the ones that have more children than they can care for on their own. The whole reason some of them have that many children in the first place is so they can qualify for higher welfare benefits. I'm sorry, but when I see a pregnant Hispanic woman walking around with 10 kids following her shopping cart and paying with food stamps, yes, I get a little miffed. There's no reason for a family to be that large in todays society. I can understand back in the day when the children in farming families were needed to help out in the fields. But today?

I'm sure if more people would be objective in this topic and actually tried to learn about our not so distant history, we would be better for it. Just my opinions, but that's what this forum is for I suppose!.

I'm pretty sure most of us have taken a history class, and I know there's more than a few people on here who remember the civil rights movements. I know my dad does.

Good post, I'll give credit where it is due, and this post was thought out this time. But this quote is exactly the point, and a lot of what I've had a problem with is insinuating that minorities somehow get a free ride through college, and wouldn't be there without the help of white people.
It's like everyone complains and moans about paying welfare for unmotivated minorities, yet they'll still complain about affirmative action, like they pay for schooling for motivated minorities working their way through college. It seems like a relatively common theme of some white people, to think that they provide for the welfare to "unmotivated" minorities, and that they also are the reason minorities are able to go to school, like some handout.

While I do agree that there are "minorities" that do work their way through college without depending on the government, let me tell you another little real life story. I don't go to a big university. I go to a state college that, just last year, was a community college. This past semester, there were probably 20 african-americans in my Biology I class (class size was 45). Within a week, all but 5 had dropped out. The other 15 were only there so they could validate their presence, and get their financial aid check. THAT'S what I complain about. Money that's supposed to be used for education being wasted, while I have to contort myself into all sorts of weird positions and put appendages places where they never should go just to get one tiny bit of aid.

Minorities have to pay for people on welfare as well, so why do so many people treat it like minorities only take from the system. I'm all for people rising beyond their situation, and making no excuses, I don't make any for myself. But when I see people ignoring why things are the way they are, it bothers me. We can't pretend like certain systems are no longer needed, like we're so removed from inequality that no one needs assistance anymore. This whole debate started over the post my Regit, and the comments quoted by Michael Richards, as though it was true and fitting for this debate. Read that post, and tell me it's not all complete garbage.

Because I can almost guarantee if you go down to your local welfare office right now, you're going to find that it's 90% minorities. I'll take my camera down next time and see if I can't give you a good shot of the waiting room. Women that are spending $300-$400 on hair extensions and fake nails wanting to know why they can't get more on their EBT card (food stamp card), or when they can expect their next cash assistance check. Men that don't speak a lick of English.

If we as a nation are so beyond the days of slavery, and prejudice, than how come same-sex marriage is prohibited?. Why is the Koran seen as the anti-thesis of the bible?. Why aren't Hispanics given the same right to live in a free country as we are?. The answer is that we grade people on different levels.

As far as I'm concerned, they have the right, IF they immigrate legally and contribute positively to society.

That first question, though, makes me go WTH? I don't see what slavery has to do with same-sex marriage. Sure, if you're into S&M, that's a different story. The prejudice I can understand. No one ever said we were after a time of prejudice. I was just trying to say that to be truly un-prejudiced, you need to treat EVERYONE equally in the first place. And that means stop giving so many advantages to "minorities".

The Irish part of my ancestry wants to make some comments about "equality" and "racism" and how well the "white race" has always had it in this country, but my German ancestry has the majority vote and wants to remain silent.

That's because the German in you assimilated the Irish. :laugh:
And btw, yes, I am 75% German, so I do understand the "majority vote".
 
Wow robby!! must spread more rep around before giving more to Robbiescornfield..

Hey robbie, I'm exactly 75 % german!! (25% belgian)

I agree with most of what you said in your most recent post. And to michael823 about same sex marriage, the only people dis-agree with it is relidgius(i know that's spelled wrong) reasons. The bible says that homo-sexuality is wrong. Another reason is.. It just isn't right. There is this funny song on youtube that is going around to emails everywhere in iowa. But, the video and the disscussion is for another day and another thread.
 
To answer the first question, YES, it has been. The one thing I really do hate is when minority groups, such as African Americans in this particular example, say that because they were enslaved for longer than they've been free, they're still entitled the reparations. To that, I have one comparison to make.
Look at the Jewish people. They were enslaved for many hundreds of years by near every middle-eastern race (Egyptians, Romans, etc, etc, etc), and I don't hear them complaining NEARLY as much as the average minority today. After every round of enslavement (because there was more than one), they picked themselves up, and said "Okay, now that we're free, what can we do to help ourselves?" They didn't depend on a governmental handout system. They did what they could for THEMSELVES. In general, the Jewish people have had more hardships than the African American race ever did. I don't seem to ever recall hearing about a mass African genocide resulting in the deaths of MILLIONS of people over a few year period.
What about Darfur?; I know you've heard of that!. Still, I digress. Although I do greatly appreciate that you DID take the time to elaborate your views, and didn't cross the line as far as derogatory phrases, I still whole-heartedly take issue with a few of your points. Their are no reperations, nor have their ever been, for the enslavement of black people. That is just false. As for saying the Jews persevered through their hardships, that's pretty much saying that Jewish people are of a stronger will and strength than African-American people. My take on that is that the Jewish people had a strong history to continue on with, and EVERYTHING African-Americans have is because of the strongest will, and faith (including freedom). Gentrification still affects strongly populated African-American communities, and racial prejudice is an uphill battle for most every day.



Been there, done that. Since you brought homosexuality into this, where's the "homosexuals only" scholarships? Where's the NAALGTBQP? Where's the ULGTBQCF? They don't exist. Trust me, I've looked. So if we're going to be classified as a minority, where's all of those foundations and resources? Oh right. I'm still white.
If their were homo-sexual benefits than it would be only too easy for any person to fake being a homo-sexual, and although I completely respect gay people as equally as any other people, it is something that is a choice and, for all intents and purposes, it is entirely possible to keep it private in the instance of persecution. I'm not saying that anyone should have to, but the possibility exists, and not only that their are plenty of organizations that advocate for gay rights, and who make a homo-sexual lifestyle possible. If their is an instance where you particularly are not given an equal opportunity for a job or scholarship than I am 100% for your rights, and you deserve them equally regardless!.



Please read the bolded statement above. That, I do agree with. What I don't agree with is how hard it is to get for someone that's in a financially unstable situation (like myself at the moment) that isn't a minority to qualify for that assistance. Now read the underlined portion. Who's "validating" the suffering? If that's true, I want my suffering deserved government assistance. Oh, and I call a complete BS on the first statement.
That's your opinion, but may I suggest that if you are suffering financially than maybe you should evaluate your spendings. I am fully aware that what you buy is 100% your business, but sacrifice is neccassary at times. That has nothing to do with the plight of your homo-sexuality, but if for any reason it does, truly does, than I am all for your rights. Again, if you are living in impoverish conditions just because of your homo-sexuality than that is a HUGE problem, but just being gay does not automatically justify your opinions on a particular groups struggles; especially a race of people!.



Again, please read the bolded statement. The only ones I ever really do complain about are the ones that have more children than they can care for on their own. The whole reason some of them have that many children in the first place is so they can qualify for higher welfare benefits. I'm sorry, but when I see a pregnant Hispanic woman walking around with 10 kids following her shopping cart and paying with food stamps, yes, I get a little miffed. There's no reason for a family to be that large in todays society. I can understand back in the day when the children in farming families were needed to help out in the fields. But today?
Those 10 kids have hearts and minds of their own, and for all we know they could be the next President who legalizes same-sex marriage. Far-fetched, possibly, but the potential is absolutely their. Now, for the parents who do continue to have children without truly evaluating their quality of life when they reach this world, that is wrong, but it is not only minorites and it happens equally across all races. I live in an astoundingly white region, and I see the same stuff all the time. It's way to dangerous to put a label on all of a particular sect just because of commonalities you percieve from a fragmented society you observe. Naturally not all statistics on all races will be the same percentage wise, just for the simple fact of the variables involved, but as far as conditionally, I know that if a person of any race is raised in the same conditions as someone of another race their potential is identical. That's what is affected by prejudice, is the change in those statistics due to the control a much larger majority!.


While I do agree that there are "minorities" that do work their way through college without depending on the government, let me tell you another little real life story. I don't go to a big university. I go to a state college that, just last year, was a community college. This past semester, there were probably 20 african-americans in my Biology I class (class size was 45). Within a week, all but 5 had dropped out. The other 15 were only there so they could validate their presence, and get their financial aid check. THAT'S what I complain about. Money that's supposed to be used for education being wasted, while I have to contort myself into all sorts of weird positions and put appendages places where they never should go just to get one tiny bit of aid.
Another generalization, though. It's never healthy to take a sample from one area and think it holds true across the nation, not to mention it is entirely possible those students transferred, or could not financially continue with their higher education. What their motives are, only god and they know, but I'm sure they would not even attempt to go to college unless their was an interest or desire to further their situation. 3 of the 4 friends I know that went to the same community college went for a few months and then just dropped out without any justifiable reason; their white, but again besides the point. That's just college, and at a young age very few people do want to commit their future to something they have little to no interest in. Either way, I hardly see how that affects your particular situation.



Because I can almost guarantee if you go down to your local welfare office right now, you're going to find that it's 90% minorities. I'll take my camera down next time and see if I can't give you a good shot of the waiting room. Women that are spending $300-$400 on hair extensions and fake nails wanting to know why they can't get more on their EBT card (food stamp card), or when they can expect their next cash assistance check. Men that don't speak a lick of English.
This particular statement is just littered with generalizations, and so many have no validity whatsoever. I don't know if you track all of them when they leave the welfare offices to see which salons they hit up, but I completely take issue with the "90%" as though it's fact. It's not your America to protect minorities from in-habiting, and what any person does is at the discretion of that person and the immediate family it affects. I respect your opinions on other topics and I know that, for your part, your speaking from the heart, but it may be a bit mis-guided. Is America taken advantage of by some people who happen to be of a different ethnicity?. Absolutely; but those people would do that regardless of whether their green with a Korean accent, and blue with a southern accent. Financial abuse is not hereditary, and is completely circumstantial. That's a fact!.



As far as I'm concerned, they have the right, IF they immigrate legally and contribute positively to society. That first question, though, makes me go WTH? I don't see what slavery has to do with same-sex marriage. Sure, if you're into S&M, that's a different story. The prejudice I can understand. No one ever said we were after a time of prejudice. I was just trying to say that to be truly un-prejudiced, you need to treat EVERYONE equally in the first place. And that means stop giving so many advantages to "minorities".
I understand that, but how do you do that UNLESS you create a divide between ethnicities. It's just not tangible. Do we create a new welfare policy that states "No welfare for hispanics". That's a depravity of rights for millions of hardworking, loving, compassionate people. It's the cost of living in America, but if we divide people based on what we percieve as "racial tendencies", than we are stripping people of their rights. As I stated earlier, welfare abuse is not hereditary down racial lines, and those that abuse would abuse regardless, but for the futures black doctors it helps, or just the every day Hispanic family trying to stay afloat it is completely a neccessity. Again, I respect you putting your focus and opinion in a well thought out manner, and if I exclude some statements I dis-agree with, I see the basis of your opinion. Still, it's important to accept that conditions in our history do dictate the future, and slavery is no objection. Neither is the stripping of gay rights, or the persecution of the Jews, or any other occurance!
 
Robbie, that's a whole lot of claims backed by nothing but anecdotal evidence. Do you have anything substantial to claim?

I mean, hell, I've met women that have kids on a schedule to maximize their welfare benefits and so far they all were white. I guess my evidence counters yours, right? I mean, you seem to have made up your mind on all the other races except whites based on your limited experiences.

Really, all I have to do is hear you say "But the Jews don't complain!" to know that you're a closet racist. Many Jews complain. Hell, Israel itself is a big reparation that was paid to Jews and they get a lot of leeway for their own war crimes because any criticism of Israeli policy is painted as anti-semitism.

I don't see the US funding any African nation near to the level they fund Israel either.

Basically, until you can back up your claims with solid evidence and not just "I saw this!", you're a racist, plain and simple.
 
Their are no reperations, nor have their ever been, for the enslavement of black people. That is just false. As for saying the Jews persevered through their hardships, that's pretty much saying that Jewish people are of a stronger will and strength than African-American people.

We agree that slavery is bad. I still can’t wrap my head around why Mr. Smith down the street should receive some kind of “cash settlement” because somebody was cruel to his great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather. Does that really make sense to you?

And yes, I think the Jews sucked it up and went on with life. Others are still waiting for someone to suck it up for them.


If their were homo-sexual benefits than it would be only too easy for any person to fake being a homo-sexual, and although I completely respect gay people as equally as any other people, it is something that is a choice and, for all intents and purposes, it is entirely possible to keep it private in the instance of persecution. I'm not saying that anyone should have to, but the possibility exists, and not only that their are plenty of organizations that advocate for gay rights, and who make a homo-sexual lifestyle possible. If their is an instance where you particularly are not given an equal opportunity for a job or scholarship than I am 100% for your rights, and you deserve them equally regardless!.

You’re way off the make here Ricky. First off gender preference is not a choice, it is a genetic characteristic, much like the color of your skin. Secondly, weather it is easy to fake has nothing to do with anything. The “plenty of organizations” that you speak of are privately funded. So are you suggesting that the blacks could do the same and no longer need government funding?

That's your opinion, but may I suggest that if you are suffering financially than maybe you should evaluate your spendings. I am fully aware that what you buy is 100% your business, but sacrifice is neccassary at times. That has nothing to do with the plight of your homo-sexuality, but if for any reason it does, truly does, than I am all for your rights. Again, if you are living in impoverish conditions just because of your homo-sexuality than that is a HUGE problem, but just being gay does not automatically justify your opinions on a particular groups struggles; especially a race of people!

So again you’re saying that gay people should just suck it up and make a few sacrifices. How is a black persons poverty different than a gay persons? If one gets a government check why doesn’t the other? I didn’t you hear you address Robbie’s example of the woman with the hair extensions and fake nails. I guess since she is black she shouldn’t suck it up?


You know Ricky, I was going to go down your post point by point but this is getting stupid. Your response to every situation is that if you’re black you deserve something for nothing and if your white you’re on your own. You can’t seem to see anyone else’s hardship. Your point of view on everything you have addressed has been so slanted and prejudiced that it is laughable that you can’t see it yourself.

Yesterday you and your brother made me mad. Today I feel sorry for you. You are what you hate. You are the epitome of what you are fighting so gallantly.
 
What about Darfur?; I know you've heard of that!. Still, I digress. Although I do greatly appreciate that you DID take the time to elaborate your views, and didn't cross the line as far as derogatory phrases, I still whole-heartedly take issue with a few of your points. Their are no reperations, nor have their ever been, for the enslavement of black people. That is just false. As for saying the Jews persevered through their hardships, that's pretty much saying that Jewish people are of a stronger will and strength than African-American people. My take on that is that the Jewish people had a strong history to continue on with, and EVERYTHING African-Americans have is because of the strongest will, and faith (including freedom). Gentrification still affects strongly populated African-American communities, and racial prejudice is an uphill battle for most every day.

So all the money that's been paid from the descendants of plantation owners to proven direct descendants of slaves isn't considered reparations? What is then?
For the Jewish nation, I never said they were stronger than African-American people. All I'm saying is that they worked their butts off to get where they are today without expecting the government to help them. It seems like a good portion of the African-American community (note, I did NOT say ALL) seems to think that the white-man still owes them, and should be paying their bills and what-not.

If their were homo-sexual benefits than it would be only too easy for any person to fake being a homo-sexual, and although I completely respect gay people as equally as any other people, it is something that is a choice and, for all intents and purposes, it is entirely possible to keep it private in the instance of persecution. I'm not saying that anyone should have to, but the possibility exists, and not only that their are plenty of organizations that advocate for gay rights, and who make a homo-sexual lifestyle possible. If their is an instance where you particularly are not given an equal opportunity for a job or scholarship than I am 100% for your rights, and you deserve them equally regardless!.

Let me put this as nicely as I can. I CHOSE to be gay the same day you CHOSE to be straight.

That's your opinion, but may I suggest that if you are suffering financially than maybe you should evaluate your spendings. I am fully aware that what you buy is 100% your business, but sacrifice is neccassary at times. That has nothing to do with the plight of your homo-sexuality, but if for any reason it does, truly does, than I am all for your rights. Again, if you are living in impoverish conditions just because of your homo-sexuality than that is a HUGE problem, but just being gay does not automatically justify your opinions on a particular groups struggles; especially a race of people!.

I have evaluated my spending. While I do splurge a few times on some new snakes, when I do have cash, most of it goes to paying overdue bills, or for gas money, or for food. Only after do I evaluate how much I have left-over for a snake purchase. Very rarely do I splurge on anything that costs insane amounts of money. I've actually made quite a few sacrifices over the past 9 months, and have done without a lot of what I always used to have.

Those 10 kids have hearts and minds of their own, and for all we know they could be the next President who legalizes same-sex marriage. Far-fetched, possibly, but the potential is absolutely their. Now, for the parents who do continue to have children without truly evaluating their quality of life when they reach this world, that is wrong, but it is not only minorites and it happens equally across all races. I live in an astoundingly white region, and I see the same stuff all the time. It's way to dangerous to put a label on all of a particular sect just because of commonalities you percieve from a fragmented society you observe. Naturally not all statistics on all races will be the same percentage wise, just for the simple fact of the variables involved, but as far as conditionally, I know that if a person of any race is raised in the same conditions as someone of another race their potential is identical. That's what is affected by prejudice, is the change in those statistics due to the control a much larger majority!.

I will agree with you there, to an extent. But almost all of the Hispanic families I have seen, met, talked with, etc. have all had more than 6 children. This includes several friends of mine from high school and earlier on. It does not spread equally among all races. That's a misconception. Yes, there are large families of other nationalities, but a large percentage of families with more than 4 or 5 children are Hispanic. Even speaking conditionally. You don't generally see Asian families running around with 7 or 8 children, even in America where it's not illegal to have more than 1 or 2 children.

Another generalization, though. It's never healthy to take a sample from one area and think it holds true across the nation, not to mention it is entirely possible those students transferred, or could not financially continue with their higher education. What their motives are, only god and they know, but I'm sure they would not even attempt to go to college unless their was an interest or desire to further their situation. 3 of the 4 friends I know that went to the same community college went for a few months and then just dropped out without any justifiable reason; their white, but again besides the point. That's just college, and at a young age very few people do want to commit their future to something they have little to no interest in. Either way, I hardly see how that affects your particular situation.

I've been around the nation. I haven't been to schools all over the nation, but I am very well traveled within the continental US. I'm just pointing out my observations. As far as the statement I made about them only waiting to get the financial aid check, yes, I did know for a fact that that's what at least 10 of them were doing. I'm not completely deaf, and I can overhear loud conversations. It's also not hard to tell when someone really doesn't care if they're going to get an education or not by the way they sleep in class. To me, that says they don't care what the cost is because they're not paying for it. It offends me because the money that they're abusing could very easily go to a scholarship for someone in a genuinely disadvantaged situation.

This particular statement is just littered with generalizations, and so many have no validity whatsoever. I don't know if you track all of them when they leave the welfare offices to see which salons they hit up, but I completely take issue with the "90%" as though it's fact. It's not your America to protect minorities from in-habiting, and what any person does is at the discretion of that person and the immediate family it affects. I respect your opinions on other topics and I know that, for your part, your speaking from the heart, but it may be a bit mis-guided. Is America taken advantage of by some people who happen to be of a different ethnicity?. Absolutely; but those people would do that regardless of whether their green with a Korean accent, and blue with a southern accent. Financial abuse is not hereditary, and is completely circumstantial. That's a fact!.

My partner, Tony, is a cosmetologist. I know how much extensions cost (and $300-400 is cheap), and it really bothers me that they think it's okay to do that. If their friends did it for them, even at a salon, they're still going to have to pay for it. Yes, I was using the 90% as a generalization for the number of "minorities" there, but the times I've gone, it seems to be a fairly accurate number. I agree that financial abuse is not hereditary, but it certainly is learned. They had to learn how to take advantage of the system from somewhere. And that, my friend, is also a fact.

I understand that, but how do you do that UNLESS you create a divide between ethnicities. It's just not tangible. Do we create a new welfare policy that states "No welfare for hispanics". That's a depravity of rights for millions of hardworking, loving, compassionate people. It's the cost of living in America, but if we divide people based on what we percieve as "racial tendencies", than we are stripping people of their rights. As I stated earlier, welfare abuse is not hereditary down racial lines, and those that abuse would abuse regardless, but for the futures black doctors it helps, or just the every day Hispanic family trying to stay afloat it is completely a neccessity. Again, I respect you putting your focus and opinion in a well thought out manner, and if I exclude some statements I dis-agree with, I see the basis of your opinion. Still, it's important to accept that conditions in our history do dictate the future, and slavery is no objection. Neither is the stripping of gay rights, or the persecution of the Jews, or any other occurance!

I'm sorry, but I don't see how DIVIDING ethnicities is going to alleviate the tension and issues between races. If anything, it's going to cause a greater rift, and even more social discomfort. What I'm trying to say is do away with ALL "minority titles" and let EVERYONE be just an American. That's the only way to be truly fair and impartial. Like I had mentioned earlier with job interviews. Do them over the phone. Let the people who are truly qualified get the job. Don't give it to them just because you have a quota to fill. The same goes for government assistance. Take away the race/ethnicity question on the applications for jobs, government assistance, etc. Give it to people who truly do deserve it. Yes, I can understand that "minorities" will still get government assistance. But if we made it less of a "freebie" based on ethnicity/background, maybe they would start to really think about having 10+ children that they can't care for.
 
The best way to eliminate the issue of people having too many kids is to outlaw Catholicism.....but that's just me.

Anyway, how many people on welfare have over the national average of children compared to people not on welfare, anyway? That's something I've never looked into.
 
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