You won Rich

[breedingcolors]

I am out of here.

I decided to not be identify as a contributor because I was not proud anymore of being a member here. Don't know the real reason behind that but you decided that to be the moderator of our site we needed to be identify as a contributor. Since I did not want too, you removed me as a moderator and closed my forums so nobody could post there anymore.

On top of that you let another member open a second Canadian forum, what I find ridiculous. But hey, it is 50$ more in your pocket.

So I asked Ruth of HanneysCorn to take over the Canadian forum and she already sent you the money for one year. I would like to close my personal forum and for you to reimburse me the rest of the year on both since I can't access them anyway.

Since it seems difficult for you to check when my payment are due, I saved you the trouble:

My personnal forum expire February 16th. ( 89 days remaining since Nov 20th)
The Canadian forum expire February 12th. (85 days remaining since Nov 20th)

So please send me 12.19$ for my personnal forum and 11.65$ for the Canadian forum (total: 23.84$) by paypal to [email protected]

I want to thanks everyone who helped me and others since the beginning and I will miss a lot of you. But I need to go away of this site for a while. I want the corns to still be my passion and this site killed a part of it lately...

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

On top of that you let another member open a second Canadian forum, what I find ridiculous.

If this is your big issue, in my opinion, Rebecca has every right to have a forum as you do. You know that Rebecca started her own forum because of the crap she was getting about posting for sale in your forum. So she started her own and offered her forum as a place for anyone Canadian to post for sale ads without restrictions.

I say Kudos to her for putting her money into opening up a forum for any Canadian to post ads!

 

[Joejr14]

I'm a bit confused...

Just what does a contributor status have to do with a personal forum?? These two items are totally separate from each other, are they not?

Why would your forum be taken away for not identifying as a contributor?

Last time I checked, you can go into USER CP and buy a personal forum, without being a contributor. So.....?

 

[carol]

Booting someone over a font? I thought we were the petty ones. What a way to pep rally a lot of members here that are loosing our passion for the site. Sure a lot of us will continue to come here for business matters, 'cause you got da numbers. However, when you get a lot of knowledgeable people who's heart just isn't "in it" anymore, your site is going to be lacking a lot of great threads.

I'll miss you and all your contributions here Caroline.

 

[Roy Munson]

I really can't believe this is happening. The pettiness, ego-clashes, and pissing matches have gone too far. Can't something be done to stop the bleeding? What the hell has happened to this place in less than a year? These aren't rhetorical questions-- I'd like to see some answers...

 

[carol]

I really can't believe this is happening. The pettiness, ego-clashes, and pissing matches have gone too far. Can't something be done to stop the bleeding? What the hell has happened to this place in less than a year? These aren't rhetorical questions-- I'd like to see some answers...

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I (as always) am more than happy to explain myself. I've been on this site for over 4 years. I well remember when it was a tiny forum who's content was just a couple pages full. Myself and others worked very hard to make this forum "the place" to go for cornsnake information. Somewhere comfortable AND knowledgeable. This site grew because of everyone's contributions between then and know. As one of the members that spent hours and hours a week in the beginning making sure everyone got the answers they needed, I kind of had a "pride of ownership" even though there was no ownership. Recently, not only have I been reminded there is no ownership, but there is no appreciation either, and we must yeild to every request or we will loose priveledges. Then add being personally insulted to that list and you begin to loose that pride.

Recently, myself and a lot of other "oldies but goodies" got our feelings hurt when Rich said we were all childish, petty, and immature because we did not want to deal with people that even Rich himself does not like to deal with. In the beginning I wrote it off as Rich just not seeing it. However, after my last post in that lovely chat thread, it would be impossible for him not to see how he has stepped on toes and hurt feelings. Some of us are mad, some of us just lost our passion here. Either way we're licking wounds and I think it was bad timing to force people into submission over petty things.

 

[Rich Z]

Please reference this thread that I posted during the later part of last week -> http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43330

If someone wants to make this sort of public display of their spitefullness, then that is the choice they made. No one is really required to have their name highlighted or have the medallion showing, but the case of the personal forums is a bit different. I have the names of the moderators displayed in the right hand column so I have an immediate visual display of who may have had their personal forum lapse. I don't get any sort of notification when they lapse, so I have to have some sort of manual and easily detectable way to notify me of this sort of event.

When I noted that Caroline's registration name was no longer highlighted, I had to go to Caroline's registration record to verify that it had not in fact lapsed. I then reset it so that her name would be highlighted, in case a glitch had taken place (as sometimes happens) to change her status. And she then apparently went in again and changed it, which to me, was clearly meant to be a slap in my face.

So by all the evidence I saw, you apparently abandoned your forums, Caroline. That was your choice to make, of course, but your choice had consequences.

And for the record, no I didn't "win" a thing. We are all losing here because of a few people's reaction to my request cease the antagonistic behavior when in the chat room. I've said my piece about that and see no reason to continue that discussion. All that needs to be said it still in that previous thread. If people choose to leave this site because of my stance, then so be it. That's just the way it will have to be.

 

[pgr8dnlvr]

Hey Caroline, I just wanted to say a few things. For one thing, what the heck? You don't want to be a contributor or anything on cornsnakes? You aren't leaving are you?? It would be a ridiculous shame for you to leave or even reduce your part in it!! You are one of the founding members as far as I have seen, and you have served a VERY valuable purpose for the Canadian side of this hobby? So many people hold your name in such high regard and your years of experience are incredibly valueable to new comers in this hobby! PLEASE DON'T LEAVE!

I hope I am mistaken, and that this whole thing is something between you and Rich and not much if anything to do with me...

When I read this comment :

"On top of that you let another member open a second Canadian forum, what I find ridiculous. But hey, it is 50$ more in your pocket."

I wanted to make sure you understood why I made another Canadian forum. It was to COMPLEMENT yours, not REPLACE it! Not in any way!! Do you ever notice that the Americans forums for pictures and sales are ridiculously busy? I can't even get in to view photos quite often because of all the people already viewing. It shows that there is a huge number of people who particularly just want to see photos and for sale ads and not go through discussions.

When it was brought up in the Canadian forum that my ads may not be appropriate, I totally understood, it was not a big deal! I did see a WANT and NEED though, for Canadians to have a central location for sales and photos just as the Americans do.

Even T&J laid things out on the table and said this -

"In all fairness, with all the animals you have been selling in Caroline's forum, that you move them to the For Sale Section or just get your own Forum.. "

I am DEFINITELY still planning on participating on your Canadian forum to discuss all hobby type manners. I just want this second Canadian forum to strictly be pictures, for sales, and maybe a place to work with breeding trades NOT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE CORN HOBBY.

You have always been polite and honest with me. I don't have any problems with you! I am eternally greatfull that you even let me post my initial for sale ads without question. Whenever I pm'd you asking for help or to straighten things out you answered IMMEDIATELY. You have seemed like a true CANADIAN though the thick and thin, so PLEASE STAY!!!

Sincerely, Rebecca

 

[Roy Munson]

I'm not sure who you are referring to...

Thanks for the reply, Carol. I guess I would be dishonest if I were to say that I was not referring to anyone in particular, because I did have specific people in mind. You weren't one of them, but I still appreciate your response, and I agree with you 100%.

If someone wants to make this sort of public display of their spitefullness, then that is the choice they made. No one is really required to have their name highlighted or have the medallion showing, but the case of the personal forums is a bit different. I have the names of the moderators displayed in the right hand column so I have an immediate visual display of who may have had their personal forum lapse. I don't get any sort of notification when they lapse, so I have to have some sort of manual and easily detectable way to notify me of this sort of event.

I'm sorry, but I feel that the reason for this requirement is bogus. The system is sophisticated enough to remind us that today is member JamesP's birthday. He joined in August of 2002, he's made 5 posts total, and his last activity here was in February of 2004. The system can do this, but it can't give you an immediate visual display of personal forum lapses? I just can't believe that.

For the record, I too believe that de-activation of a contributor's status (i.e. medallion and name-highlight) is blatantly spiteful and petty. But I think your reaction (i.e. requiring visual contributor status) was transparently spiteful and petty as well. And the pissing contests escalate... Can you honestly say that your reaction was 100% unemotional? Don't get me wrong-- I don't necessarily blame you. But I think we should be honest about what's really going on here.

 

[Rich Z]

I'm sorry, but I feel that the reason for this requirement is bogus. The system is sophisticated enough to remind us that today is member JamesP's birthday. He joined in August of 2002, he's made 5 posts total, and his last activity here was in February of 2004. The system can do this, but it can't give you an immediate visual display of personal forum lapses? I just can't believe that.

For the record, I too believe that de-activation of a contributor's status (i.e. medallion and name-highlight) is blatantly spiteful and petty. But I think your reaction (i.e. requiring visual contributor status) was transparently spiteful and petty as well. And the pissing contests escalate... Can you honestly say that your reaction was 100% unemotional? Don't get me wrong-- I don't necessarily blame you. But I think we should be honest about what's really going on here.

Regardless of what you may think, your belief is not a necessary requirement for something to be a fact. And the FACT is that NO, I do not receive notices of any paid contributor or personal forum memberships when they expire. If you want to check up on this FACT, please go to http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ and ask the developers yourself.

And even if I do want to be pissy towards someone being pissy towards me? So what? That "turn the other cheek" crap is for people who like getting slapped. That DEFINITELY is not me.

 

[Mary-Beth]

Do you see it now Dean?

 

[Roy Munson]

Regardless of what you may think, your belief is not a necessary requirement for something to be a fact. And the FACT is that NO, I do not receive notices of any paid contributor or personal forum memberships when they expire. If you want to check up on this FACT, please go to http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/ and ask the developers yourself.

And even if I do want to be pissy towards someone being pissy towards me? So what? That "turn the other cheek" crap is for people who like getting slapped. That DEFINITELY is not me.

Thanks for the schooling in belief vs. reality, but I already have a firm grasp of this. I saw a member using the "add event" option in the calendar feature to schedule snake feedings. I decided to test it myself and it works (there's a 'test' submitted by me for today's date). This is about as "at a glance" as it gets. I guess the option does exist in vbulletin to track these kinds of things. But guess what? Without vbulletin, I still manage to have a few dozen electronic and manual processes that remind me of deadlines, expiry dates, scheduled tasks, etc..

And as far as "turning the other cheek" is concerned, I already stated that I don't necessarily blame you. I don't like to be messed with either, and nine times out of ten I'll give it right back as well. I don't like getting slapped either. But I also don't like being dealt with disingenuously. So the contributor status requirement was a pissy response to you being pissed on. I don't have a problem with that as long as it's out in the open. Now we have to figure out how to stop all the pissing and make this site great again. You're a good guy, and these are good people, and it's just bleepin' snakes... What can we do?

 

[Rich Z]

Thanks for the schooling in belief vs. reality, but I already have a firm grasp of this. I saw a member using the "add event" option in the calendar feature to schedule snake feedings. I decided to test it myself and it works (there's a 'test' submitted by me for today's date). This is about as "at a glance" as it gets. I guess the option does exist in vbulletin to track these kinds of things. But guess what? Without vbulletin, I still manage to have a few dozen electronic and manual processes that remind me of deadlines, expiry dates, scheduled tasks, etc..

I understand that, but that was not the issue brought up. The issue was the automated capabilities of THIS site, and the vBulletin software in general, to handle the process of trying to determine when a subscription to a personal forum has expired. I have chosen the method EASIEST for me to implement.

And as far as "turning the other cheek" is concerned, I already stated that I don't necessarily blame you. I don't like to be messed with either, and nine times out of ten I'll give it right back as well. I don't like getting slapped either. But I also don't like being dealt with disingenuously. So the contributor status requirement was a pissy response to you being pissed on. I don't have a problem with that as long as it's out in the open. Now we have to figure out how to stop all the pissing and make this site great again. You're a good guy, and these are good people, and it's just bleepin' snakes... What can we do?

Beats me. As best I can tell this has all blown up over two issues: (1) I moved the Google ads from the bottom of the page to the top, and (2) I had received an email from someone concerning trolling in the chat room asking that the "troll" be banned. I looked over that chat log excerpt and disagreed with the manner in which members HERE were handling the situation and requested that it cease.

Personally I don't think either, or both combined, could be considered as earth shaking and enough stimulus to be producing the reactions they are here. The Google ad placement was done by my programmer because he knows it will help to earn more money for me. I can't bring myself to argue against that when I see from the results that it is true. As for the chat issue, I stand firm on how I believe grown and mature adults should act while they are in there.

As an aside, I am using a new chat script that I found and testing it in one of my other forum sites. So far it appears to be as capable as the current one, or at least passably so. As such, I have asked my programmer to install it here and break the connection between CornSnakes.com and FaunaClassifieds.com. Even without the chat conflict brought up, I feel it is in my best interests to keep both sites isolated. If for nothing else, it will certainly make things easier if I have to move one of the two biggest and fastest growing sites I have onto separate servers sometime down the road.

As far as my attitude goes, no, I am not inclined to allow people to slap at me here. And I seriously doubt anyone will find evidence that I have allowed it in the past. So that is not going to change. I did not put up this site to allow anyone that sort of platform to use in that manner. So if you piss in my wheaties, you had better be prepared for your bowl to taste funny as well.

And I am sorry that some people have placed chips on the shoulders over all this, but I am going to run this site as best I can, regardless of the fact that some may not agree with my direction.

So, what else do I need to address?

 

[Roy Munson]

I don't have a problem with the ads, especially if they help secure this site's existence. I hope others see it the same way.

The cs.com/fauna chat separation should address most of the issues that members here had about chat. I think that's going to help out tremendously. You've done your part, and hopefully we (the members) can do ours.

I hope I haven't pee'd in your Wheaties, Rich. But I'll sniff my bowl before digging in. :grin01:

Take care,
-Dean

 

[Rich Z]

I hope I haven't pee'd in your Wheaties, Rich. But I'll sniff my bowl before digging in. :grin01:

Take care,
-Dean

I have not seen any evidence that you have done so, Dean. And I thank you for that consideration.

 

[TandJ]

Rebecca brought up the following..

Even T&J laid things out on the table and said this -

"In all fairness, with all the animals you have been selling in Caroline's forum, that you move them to the For Sale Section or just get your own Forum.. "

Essentially it was meant that I thought it would be more beneficial for you Rebecca in the personal sense and business sense.. Honestly, I figured it seemed a little under handed to post a wholesale list on a forum that another paid for, and I mean that in a sincere way..


Personally, Rich can do what ever he wants to his site :sidestep: , it is his as he see's fit, and there is nothing we can do.. If I can't agree with what Rich does, I have the accord to remove myself.. I don't have to do anything I don't want to and that is clear.. Sort of sad to see the chat split taking place now, but at least that results in pretty much a members only area, which it likely could have been originally.. Its a live and learn situation, hopefully things will be on the up and up for everyone..


Anyhow, for my aquintances, friends and clients.. Have a nice ThanksGiving dinner tommorow, no matter what side of the fence you chose to sit...

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[Susan]

I really can't believe this is happening. The pettiness, ego-clashes, and pissing matches have gone too far. Can't something be done to stop the bleeding? What the hell has happened to this place in less than a year? These aren't rhetorical questions-- I'd like to see some answers...

Beats me. As best I can tell this has all blown up over two issues: (1) I moved the Google ads from the bottom of the page to the top, and (2) I had received an email from someone concerning trolling in the chat room asking that the "troll" be banned. I looked over that chat log excerpt and disagreed with the manner in which members HERE were handling the situation and requested that it cease.

Personally I don't think either, or both combined, could be considered as earth shaking and enough stimulus to be producing the reactions they are here.

Well, I hate to say it, and it's only my personal opinion, but the main cause of the problem is that some members thought they had rights equal to that of the owner, but found out they were wrong and got pissed off about it. And as time is going by, I'm unfortunately seeing this opinion verifying itself over and over again.

Rich is absolutely correct...nothing he has asked or done could be considered worth the responses he's been getting. As the sole owner of this site, he has every right to put any ads he sees fit in any place he sees fit. He has the right to ask that the members behave in a certain fashion. He has the right to require a specific font/color/whatever be indicated for a specific function. Rules and regulations are a fact of life and we deal with them every day. I may not like having to wear a specific uniform shirt with black pants on each specific day at work, but that is the requirement specified by my employer. I don't like having to dress my children in uniforms of specific colors to send them to school, but that is the requirement specified by county law and school policy. I don't like having to drive 40mph on a 4-lane highway that could easily handle a higher rate of speed, but that is the requirement specified by law for that road. I don't like having to give a certain percentage of my salary to the federal government, but that is a requirement of living in this country. People have said "America...Love it or Leave it." Do we need to do the same here?

 

[CMLReptiles]

Not taking sides, just wanted to point out a thing or 2...

1) I can see the issue with having 2 canadian threads...there's no point! Rebecca could have made her own forum w/out specifically making it a canadian forum. It would be like having 2 misc corn sub-forums...why would you do that?

2) Rich....She changed the color of her name, you changed it thinking it was a glitch back. She then went in and changed it to the color she wanted. If you changed it thinking it was a glitch, how is it a slap in the face? Maybe I'm missing the point.

3) As for being a contributing member...I was one for about 2 months before I activated the medallion. If it doesn't automatically activate and it's optional to do it to begin with, again I ask, how is it a slap in the face to de-activate it? Maybe to 1 or 2 people it would seem that way, but I guaruntee you 99% of the users wouldn't notice or care.

4) Again, Rich...you said you aren't the type to just turn the other cheek and ignore somebody who's bugging you, and that you have every right to lash out if you feel the need....yet, when that happened in the chat room that time......ah, nevermind, I've tried that one already.

Happy thanksgiving folks!

 

[Rich Z]

Maybe I'm missing the point.

Yes, you are...........

 

[DAND]

There is one thing that could have fixed it all......


COMMUNICATION.


BTW Rich, congratulations on your swift and decisive victory. :roflmao: