Just what we need.....

[ghosthousecorns]

It can be so difficult to set a price on things. I attended a show this year where every year there has been another vendor with rock bottom prices and my snakes haven't sold. So this time I slashed my prices and I did sell some. I was reacting to the fact my stock hadn't moved at prices I thought were fair. When I cruised the other vendors tables I actually realized I was priced well below some of them - instead of being the undercutee I was the undercutter. Weird.
I understand how you feel because even though ghosts are a common morph I still cringe when I see one priced at $20 or $25. I still ask about ten bucks more than that for mine and I do sell a bit because people know it's my specialty and I have put a lot of effort into selective breeding of them.
I don't know the answer. If someone is looking for a butter stripe right now it would be hard to pass one up for $100. I don't know if that is fair to someone that put the work into producing them and was asking more, but there are just no guarantees that what you pay for something will be what it's still worth by the time you are able to produce it.

 

[Walter Smith]

:roflmao::roflmao:This is hilarious. Here I am trying to defend the prices and everyone here does not see the effects it will have down the line and feels it's fine to slash prices.

Well, if ya can't have them join ya, beat'um.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[Tula_Montage]

Well, if ya can't have them join ya, beat'um.
!!

Oh dear....Hypocrisy???!!

Are you going to do a completely 360 and just slash your prices even more than everyone else?!

It's clearly not hilarious to you Walter, when you were so concerned to make the thread in the first place. Methinks it's nervous laughter...

 

[vetusvates]

Walter, I know I'm a relative newcomer, but I am a thinking person. In my post #20, I was hoping to try to raise your spirits a little. Nowhere did I suggest implicitly or explicitly that slashing prices was the answer.

 

[Walter Smith]

Oh dear....Hypocrisy???!!

Are you going to do a completely 360 and just slash your prices even more than everyone else?!

It's clearly not hilarious to you Walter, when you were so concerned to make the thread in the first place. Methinks it's nervous laughter...

It seems that it would be absolutly fine with everyone here, so why not.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[CaptBogart]

:roflmao::roflmao:This is hilarious. Here I am trying to defend the prices and everyone here does not see the effects it will have down the line and feels it's fine to slash prices.

Well, if ya can't have them join ya, beat'um.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

I don't see anyone saying it's fine to slash prices, I see people saying what's done is done, as long as it doesn't continue into next year. We're only talking about a couple morphs, and pretty much anyone who wanted one this year already got theirs. Everyone here knows why the prices were what they were, and they can't honestly expect them to stay that way because of the circumstances surrounding it. You have awesome animals and a following because of it, as Eric pointed out. I would never expect anything less from your lines or reduced prices because you get what you pay for....

 

[Tula_Montage]

Are you throwing the dummy out of the pram Mr Walter Smith?! Thats poorer business ethics, compared to someone slashing prices....

 

[Walter Smith]

Walter, I know I'm a relative newcomer, but I am a thinking person. In my post #20, I was hoping to try to raise your spirits a little. Nowhere did I suggest implicitly or explicitly that slashing prices was the answer.

I know you didn't but everyone else who has dropped prices did what they had to do. It's my turn to do what I need to do.

Now everyone will have a chance to get some of my animals at prices they can afford.

It's all good.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

 

[diamondlil]

It's up to you Walter, but there will be people who will pay more for a specific morph because of the lines it's bred from and the breeder's name! I wanted my Lexcorn ghost het blood so badly I saved up and travelled to pick him up without sleep after a night shift, doubling his price with the travelling. I didn't want to wait for a price reduction, I didn't want the same genetic combo produced by someone else, I wanted one produced by Lex! And to me the fact I also own a genuine Kathy Love Okeetee is priceless too. I'm about my limit for now, but I'll want to own snakes produced by some of the people from this site and I'll pay over the odds to get them if I have to!

 

[Drizzt80]

If this continues, the cornsnake market will eventually crash like the Ball Pythons................mark my words.

When did this happen? I haven't seen any Pied's in my personal price range yet. :shrugs:

I don't have the answer, but if I'm trying to sell a toy car, I can set it on a shelf until I get my price. If I'm selling a living creature, I need to maintain it until it sells. If I need to sell it sooner than later for whatever reason, what are my options?

Kill it, sell it cheaper.

Who's the authority on when/if/how prices should be set/lowered/etc. I've asked this question before and it's never been answered. :shrugs:

D80

 

[Tula_Montage]

It's up to you Walter, but there will be people who will pay more for a specific morph because of the lines it's bred from and the breeder's name! I wanted my Lexcorn ghost het blood so badly I saved up and travelled to pick him up without sleep after a night shift, doubling his price with the travelling. I didn't want to wait for a price reduction, I didn't want the same genetic combo produced by someone else, I wanted one produced by Lex! And to me the fact I also own a genuine Kathy Love Okeetee is priceless too. I'm about my limit for now, but I'll want to own snakes produced by some of the people from this site and I'll pay over the odds to get them if I have to!

Kudos to you. Thats exactly how I feel when I am buying snakes. Case in point, my chondro. I could have got a baby years ago locally or from a shop for less than I paid for her. But I bought her from one of the most reputable UK breeders of green tree python and he even got a friend to deliver her all the way up from Essex by car to Scotland for me. I agree, who I buy from is soooo much more important than what I am buying.

There are snakes I'd kill that are for sale for a good price but I would never dream of buying them from those particular people. (Just an example as I would not dream of buying any more snakes due to recent events anyhooo).

 

[Ricky87]

Considering all mine and my brothers snakes are "future" breeders, I have no care in buying snakes for more expensive prices from fear of the long term affects of cheap sales; Why should I?. When they're cheap you as a buyer have the option of choosing ones for selective breeding, thus giving you a leg up to anyone due to having the nicest ones. Then when you are competing for prices years from now people will still go with you, because you have the nicest that the morph has to offer. That's where I see the money being made!. Morphs always decrease in value, and as a seller it should just be expected. Buyer's just don't care, especially people who don't plan on breeding. Maybe that's why so many small businesses go under, but that's just life. I won't spend an extra 100$ as charity to possibly help out the hobby in the long run; for starters I can't afford to, and also why would I help sellers to make them raise their prices?. I mean is that what you did when you bought your breeders a few years ago?. I'm sure just like we are now, you bought the least expensive one's you could find that still had great breeding potential; It's just business!. I will say I'm careful about who I buy from as to not promote the badness in the industry, but that's about it. Sorry Walter, but I think it's too much to expect from people to pay more than is required!.

 

[zorro]

I know you didn't but everyone else who has dropped prices did what they had to do. It's my turn to do what I need to do.

Now everyone will have a chance to get some of my animals at prices they can afford.

It's all good.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!

Walter use the FORCE, Don't go to the Dark Side:devil01:
John

 

[danielle]

Ricky a sunkissed lav is worth more than $150 retail period and if many breeders begin to do this then yes the value of the corn market will go down because of increased demand and further derail in prices because of an over supply as high end morphs would become cheaper to make meaning more people could. I am not at all offended a person bought an excess of Rich Z stock and is selling what they don't want for Rich's initial table prices though because this person is not making a profit in doing so. Now if this person bought them for $150 and tried to resell them for $800 I would think they were pretty tacky.

 

[diamondlil]

Considering all mine and my brothers snakes are "future" breeders, I have no care in buying snakes for more expensive prices from fear of the long term affects of cheap sales; Why should I?. When they're cheap you as a buyer have the option of choosing ones for selective breeding, thus giving you a leg up to anyone due to having the nicest ones. Then when you are competing for prices years from now people will still go with you, because you have the nicest that the morph has to offer. That's where I see the money being made!. Morphs always decrease in value, and as a seller it should just be expected. Buyer's just don't care, especially people who don't plan on breeding. Maybe that's why so many small businesses go under, but that's just life. I won't spend an extra 100$ as charity to possibly help out the hobby in the long run; for starters I can't afford to, and also why would I help sellers to make them raise their prices?. I mean is that what you did when you bought your breeders a few years ago?. I'm sure just like we are now, you bought the least expensive one's you could find that still had great breeding potential; It's just business!. I will say I'm careful about who I buy from as to not promote the badness in the industry, but that's about it. Sorry Walter, but I think it's too much to expect from people to pay more than is required!.

It depends on your point of view. I'm not planning to breed from all my snakes at all. First and foremost they're my pets, they don't owe me a penny because I love owning them, raising them and seeing them develop. The small scale breeding I've done has helped offset the mousicle bills, but if I never bred any of my snakes again I'd still keep them, I'm hoping to be a mad old snake lady in 15-20 years time with at least some of my original snakes I've raised from little worms still living with me.

 

[paigehi]

I bought a sunkissed lav from Rich Z. Actually, I bought 2. The female was an '08, so I hope to have hatchlings in 2 years. And you know what? She is also the most beautiful snake I have ever owned and I have to stop myself every day from going and taking her out and stressing her because I just like to look at her so much.

Could I have afforded her for the price you say she's "worth"? No way. What would I probably have done? Bought hets and "rolled my own". Because it was THIS YEAR I first saw one and I knew what the show would bring, I waited, and I lucked out and found them for a price I COULD afford. Of course, this also means I may be out of luck on the projects I've already put in a great deal of time and effort on because those babies, due next year, are in great supply now as well.

You take the good with the bad. If it makes you feel any better, I'll be using my sunkissed lavs to test other snakes for the sunkissed gene before I consider breeding them to each other. Everybody went into Daytona looking for different things...I went looking for a sunkissed female. Lavender is my favorite gene to work with so I was pleased to find the two combined.

I won't ever be producing the volume of babies of any of you big names...I don't have the time or the resources. This year, my resources were able to stretch a little further than I anticipated. I consider that a stroke of luck.

Next year will be...next year! Even in 3 years...my sunkissed lavs may not be worth $800, but if they are worth $100-200, that will be more than enough to pay for the parents and all the mice they can eat. As a hobbyist...that's good enough for me.

If those of you who are into this as a business instead of a hobby think there should be some sort of price guidelines...make them up, I guess. I can never figure out what to sell anything for without asking one of you anyway. I would never undercut anyone "for profit", though I do understand my babies might be worth a MODERATE amount less because I am a nobody with no reputation thus far.

This is a free market, and you are never going to be able to rule what people charge for their own property. If you can get community feeling to go with you, you could "boycott" the undercutters, I suppose. I think if this situation had not started with Rich Z's retirement, that may have happened. Because of how it began, community sentiment seems to feel that this year is already screwed. No use locking the barn when the cow's already gone...

Perhaps all our energy would be better spent discussing how to encourage people to set prices that reflect the blood, sweat, and tears of being in the hobby NEXT year, and letting this summer's remaining (admittedly undervalued) chips fall where they may.

Is that possible? If the community wants to MAKE it possible, it certainly is. I'd be willing to commit to that effort. Anybody else?

 

[crackerhead]

...I am not at all offended a person bought an excess of Rich Z stock and is selling what they don't want for Rich's initial table prices though because this person is not making a profit in doing so. Now if this person bought them for $150 and tried to resell them for $800 I would think they were pretty tacky.

So are you saying that a 600% markup is better than a 533% markup? Because 600% is the markup based on what the "person" bought them for and what they are being sold for. Besides wholesalers do that every day. Everyday items in retail are marked up comparable amounts; clothing is commonly marked up 600-800%. It's not "tacky" it's business. There are overhead expenses to consider. The person(s) who bought up Rich's stock at the end of the show are taking a gamble that they will sell them before they put too much time/money into them or they perish, which is always a possibility with hatchlings.
As for Walter's original post, I hope he's wrong. I also don't think the "person" who is selling Rich's stock has any intention of crashing the market. The thought probably was to make a little profit on the back of Rich's retirement sale. This person has a vested stake in keeping the market solid. Who knows what the future holds, only time will tell.
Terri

 

[danielle]

I understand how retail works. My point is this person posted these snakes were bought off of Rick Z's table which everyone knew was going to be cheap. So if this person bought up his stock and then came on his site and sold them for hundreds of dollars more that would be the definition of tacky. If this person sold them anywhere else then yes I agree with you he would just be being a businessman.

 

[crackerhead]

Ah, I missed were the "tacky" part was being attached to. And yes, I agree it would be tough to come back to the forum and try to sell Rich's stock at full market price. Now THAT would make for a colorful thread.:grin01: Thanks for the clarification.
Terri

 

[Nanci]

Walter, I saw your snakes at Daytona. You have got some absolutely beautiful, gorgeous, to die for babies. With my $200 budget, I couldn't have gotten even one that I would have liked to have had...I'm sorry. It's too bad Daytona doesn't fall right after tax refund season, so there would be more money to spend. Your snakes are definitely worthy of the prices you are asking, but the economy is hurting lots of us. Where I work, they've completely cut out overtime and are making people go home at 40 hours. That is cutting my paycheck by at least ten hours a pay period. That's my fun snake money, gone. I took advantage of Rich's retirement sale to get two snakes I could previously only dream of. I feel a little (a lot, actually) like a scumbag for not having any money left to buy anything else from anyone else, not even lunch, but still I am happy for the opportunity to own those two babies. I am sure next year will be better.