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Are we killing the future market?

Ok I checked it out. That is not the complet list of threads when is the first post that carol posted a unusual corn that she hatched out . You have to check every post If I'm not mistaken the morph was ot fully coined yet . there were many names for it I remember type c anery and cinder there were way more threads about this morph. You know that as well as I
 
Ok I checked it out. That is not the complet list of threads when is the first post that carol posted a unusual corn that she hatched out . You have to check every post If I'm not mistaken the morph was ot fully coined yet . there were many names for it I remember type c anery and cinder there were way more threads about this morph. You know that as well as I

I have already posted links to both these threads.. (post # 66)
 
Go head and prove this. Many pepole seen the link I'm talking about. I'm so sorry I cant remember every link on this board sham on me . How stupid I must be to not remember every thing everone said on every thread. You want to know what link it was then you have to do the same as I would search the whole form for cinder threads and read them all and get back to us with the link. I will give you one better It should be Carol that would know what link it was . It was her comment. I had a talk with RZ on the subject. Asking him how come she dont get banned for that, it was total disrespect to the owner of the site. He was not happy but Rich took a higher road. I was stund to say the least.

Just for the record here, yes, this did happen as Vinnie is saying. I tried to find the thread myself, but was unable to do so. The problem likely is because at that time, we were calling this 'C' Anerythrism and in some instances 'Z' Corn or something like that.

As I recall, what happened was I quoted a price of say $1,500 per pair, and yes, Carol did post a reply in that same thread saying that you could get a pair from her for $1,200. *prices are approximate!* I don't remember the exact figure. But yes, that is exactly what did transpire in the thread in question here, as Vinnie recalls it.

Personally I felt it was not appropriate, but did not have any reason to make an issue about it. And now, I don't believe it is worth making an issue over at this late date neither. My sole reason for posting here is to verify that Vinnie is not concocting this story, and it did, in fact, happen. While I do not wish to inflame this situation with my input, I ethically cannot allow Vinnie's ass to flap alone in the wind when I can verify his claim. If someone can find that thread, more power to you, as I just cannot find a keyword to use as a handle to locate it. My guess is that it took place sometime back in 2004. But where, exactly, is anyone's guess. Certainly likely in the FOR SALE or WANTED forums, but that isn't necessarily so. It could have been in any conversational thread ANYWHERE about this cultivar. Back then I was pretty lax about any sort of rules. Matter of fact, it likely was before there was a requirement for paid memberships to post classified ads here.

Now, I don't have anything at all against Carol because of the above mentioned incident, nor anyone else who undercuts my prices. That's just the way it is. It's been happening for quite a long time, and anyone who can't handle that just shouldn't be selling anything that someone else can offer for sale. Once someone has animals to sell, regardless of who else has them, they have every right to sell them at whatever price they wish to. That's the way a free market operates. That is what freedom of choice is all about. That is the definition of "competition" which capitalism is based upon. Everyone is free to set the price at which they are willing to sell their merchandise at, regardless of what anyone else things about it. I certainly have NEVER indicated to anyone here, nor on FaunaClassifieds, about any restrictions concerning prices of any sort on anything they are selling. Nor will I. That's just not my BUSINESS to do. Of course, not everyone will agree with my stance, especially if someone else is undercutting THEIR advertised prices, but that's my own personal and professional opinion on this issue.

That being said, in the past when I would sell something new to someone, I generally gave them this admonition: I will NOT be the first one to drop the price on this cultivar. But once someone else does, then the gloves come off... And I believe I have held true to my word.....
 
Do NOT, I repeat DO NOT put words in my mouth. I backed up Carol, plain and simple. Prove your poison. As usual, the all-knowing Vinster refuses, flat out refuses, to answer any question or offer any piece of proof to back up his words. Go back to feeding your snakes chicken.

Remember this quote:

Follow it. You've already proven that your NOT a man of your own word.

Otherwise, directly answer the following questions:
1. What are the specific criteria that dictates who has the """honor""" of purchasing your snakes?
2. How do you specifically enforce and control what someone you've sold a snake to does with it? Kneecaps?
3. Who is on your "Do Not Sell To" list, what are the exact, specific criteria for that list, and what are the names of these """other breeders""" that you convene with at shows that follow the same list?
4. What is the exact magic number of Lavender Bloodreds that the market can bear at fair market value, and how many of those will I be allowed to produce if I am to do "my part" and control the market? Oh, yeah, and what is that fair market value that I must charge?

If you refuse to answer these questions specifically (once again) then you have proven what I have known all along. :shrugs:

D80

A1. I have answered that question masny times on this post.

A2. No you have to see where they are comming before the sale is made . Dont get me wrong you get every bad apple but it is gioing to reduce the lod of back stabers

A3. I already gave you the specific criteria But you cant seem to grasp the information . I cant help you with that you are going to have to re read it again and use your common sence. Give you names, boy you cant be that stupid . how far in the wood do you live . anyone that lives around people knows that is a question that gets no answer. you got to be kidding me Too funny

A4. as I told you before I tell it like it is . As of right now I have no idea what the market value is I had a bad year so I had no need to folow prices. I will reaserch that when I got eggs in the oven. AS far a clear number how would I answer that when I have not keept up with the current value of corn this year. What is ment by over produce is dont produce too many animals at one time of a high dollar project unless you can sell them all. Again ypu have to know what numbers of snakes you can sell. I know that if I was abale to produce 100 blood I would not Now I cant but if I copuld I would not. The ecommony and the fact I know my customer base would not be able to handle that load . again common sence come into play. Are you telling me you dont know how many snakes you can sell in a year. I know I have produced multi het , more that I could sell, I would take the animals I did not sell for the hets they are to the pet trade as normals

Now what plans or ideas do you have to reduce the problem I have been doing my pat for years or are you one of those people that belive that the more you produce the more you will make. So Drizz you are so fast to put down what I been doing for years what is your answer to the problem.
 
Thank you rich for standing up for my rep, I remember talking to you and you mentioning you were going to take the higher road on the matter .


Now Drizz eat my shorts be a man and apologize.

Carol this make you a liar. I DID NOT SLANDER ANYONE, SHAM ON YOU:dancer::dancer::dancer:
 
I sure wish we could find that thread. In any instance, it has never been my intent to disrespectfully undercut Rich. I don't think any of us would feel that we could catch the same price as Rich Z. There very well could have been a thread where someone asked going prices and mine were less, however this does not deserve or give credit to Vinman's accusation that I make it a point to undercut. It also has nothing to do with where the prices of Cinders are now.
Vinman, you are not in the clear, you still went way overboard on all your implications here.
 
No, I told the truth the fact you can't admit you were wrong after Rich posted exactly what I said, shows your true character . Instead of admiting you are wrong in the beginning when I first posted it.and said it was a bad judgement on you part. You decided to lie. You clearly told rich you were going under cut him, he has backed up my story this make you a liar and a dishonest person in my book. It is right here on the forum for everyone to see. Another bad business move on your part SHAM ON YOU for deceiving all of us on this forum. Thank tyou Rich for setting the story stright. Dont you think it is best for you to drop the subject while you have some dignity left or are you going to keep defending you story when it has already put you in a bad light. talk about not trusting someone, your quote this is what you said about me . now eat your words

Talk about someone hurting your own business. If you can twist the truth about someone you've never dealt with and say such unfounded nasty things, imagine what you'd come up with against someone who actually did business with you if, heaven forbid, the deal did not go smooth. I'd definitely be scared to do business with you.
 
OK, enough people. We don't need finger pointing and recriminations. This is NOT the BOI. Anyone continuing to be combative and accusatory in this thread is going to get a vacation from here.
 
Rich said I've advertised animals cheaper than him in a thread. I did not lie, as I said before and I'm saying now, it's never been my intent to spitefully undercut Rich nor have I ever expressed that. I guess if Rich remembers it, I may have thoughtlessly advertised for less, but it was not in the ruthless manner you are talking about, nor it was my intent to "undercut".
 
Rich said I've advertised animals cheaper than him in a thread. I did not lie, as I said before and I'm saying now, it's never been my intent to spitefully undercut Rich nor have I ever expressed that. I guess if Rich remembers it, I may have thoughtlessly advertised for less, but it was not in the ruthless manner you are talking about, nor it was my intent to "undercut".

Carol,

Yes, I believe that is what happened. If I remember correctly, your response was even kind of spur of the moment, like you were reading the thread quickly and responding just as quickly in passing through. Likely not giving a lot of thought about how it would appear.... I thought it a bit of a low blow, and a bit miffed about it, but I didn't take it as being in any way malicious. At worse, I believe you just were thoughtless about how it would appear to other people undercutting another seller in the same thread. Certainly I don't believe anyone here thinks I would be shy about my reaction to someone I felt was maliciously taking a slap at me. :grabbit:

And it's not like I haven't ever exhibited bad form myself here and there... :uhoh:

I've tried like hell to find that thread, but without any luck. It appears that we were referring to this cultivar as either "C Anery" or "Z". So trying to find it via a keyword search is not going to be easy, to say the least.

So let's just lay this particular incident to rest now, please. It happened, we all lived through it, none the worse for wear, and it's over with.

If someone can take a lesson from this in how they should be circumspect about responding to another's offers to sell, then let's take this as a positive step, and not try to beat ourselves up over it. I SERIOUSLY doubt that anyone here has never made a mistake in judgement without thinking about how it will appear to others.
 
LOL

Quote: That's just the way it is. It's been happening for quite a long time, and anyone who can't handle that just shouldn't be selling anything that someone else can offer for sale. Once someone has animals to sell, regardless of who else has them, they have every right to sell them at whatever price they wish to. That's the way a free market operates. That is what freedom of choice is all about. That is the definition of "competition" which capitalism is based upon. Everyone is free to set the price at which they are willing to sell their merchandise at, regardless of what anyone else things about it.


In other words: Cant take the heat? stay out the Kitchen!:grin01:
 
Yes you are right but with out setting some standers you will just screw youseli into a price war, You lose in the end. Breeders have to make sure that they protect themselves. We need to work together to perserve the market. Think about the goverment used to pay farmers not to grow certin crops because the price would drop too low. This is not a Simple minded topic. There are pleanty of people may disagree but not all here have the mind set for economics. There is a right and a wrong way to handle this problem Unity among breeders the first step. You have to be pretty simple minded to think that is not the way things are in the economy. Like I said before Look at OPEC, what about other big businesses, there is a limit to how far down they will cut eachother in prices. If they did not then all hell would break loose and the country would go bankrupt. They would cut eachother so bad no one would make money . Bottom line is you got to cap prices some where . Over production in a falling economy it the king of all evil. That is the fastest way to kill the price on a high end animal
 
True

I have worked with alot of other breeders working together to produce new morphs and such, theres alot of good people and theres some that just arent worth the time of day.
People arent stupid ,they choose who they want to deal with by a persons actions, not by someones words.
The breeders who are fair and honest stay successfull and those that arent fade away.
I dont want to hurt any of the big breeders by lowering a price of a animal and I understand what you are saying
 
:dancer:Even though we are all in competition we got to work together. Glad you know what I'm talking about :cheers: Rep points for you !!!!
 
I can't believe how incredibly difficult it was to find the thread in question.

I'm a big fan of both Rich Z. and Carol, and I've had numerous flawless transactions with both of them. I only post this link so that everyone can draw their own conclusions. I guess I can see how Rich may have been "a bit miffed", but he didn't take it as a "malicious slap", and I can see why he didn't. I think it was just a quick reply (to my own inquiry, as I was surprised to find!).

Anyway, here it is:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26542&highlight=%22%242%2C000%22&page=2

Additionally, Rich Z. did not participate in that thread, so Carol wasn't undercutting a price that had just been posted by Rich (though she DID post his price). Maybe it isn't even the thread in question. :shrugs: But if it is, then I guess everyone's memories of exactly what transpired are a little skewed...
 
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