This is why I will never own anything bigger than a Morelia

[tsst]

LOL!!!! Well, that's NOT exactly where I read the info on "Looking into the eyes", And I fully 100% agree....I could be wrong, the Source for said Info could be wrong....As I have Never Kept these animals. But I do have an "Owners" Manual for Burmese. Lol

Oh Well.....

Didn't mean to question your post. Heck I have no idea. It just made me think of this scene so I had to post it.

 

[MysticExotics]

Nothing that has been said has changed my belief that the larger snakes should be kept by educated & experienced keepers, not your average Joe.

I wholeheartedly agree that permits should be required for them, & yes, I do believe that some dog breeds should require permits as well.

As the OP, this thread *was* started to be a wakeup call to those inexperienced who might be considering getting a larger constrictor, "because they're so cool".

 

[CMRetics]

I see you are not familiar with Dr. Jefe.

Don't need to be. I've met some zoo keepers keeping their tree monitors on gravel and professional herpetologists fail at husbandry aspects. I can go take a picture with a big snake too, that doesn't make me an expert. The idea that this one guy is somehow on some pedestal over household names in big snake breeding and care, is a bit silly.

This is not the site people would come to do research about anyway. Only an idiot would go to a colubrid based site for research on burms and retics.

I'm glad you have experience with the big constrictors, that's great, but John Q. Public has no business owning these types of snakes.

A permit system is the perfect way to deal with it. It forces people to do something more than making a $100 split decision at reptile show.

An idiot? Maybe someone here who keeps colubrids and happens to just search on the forum for information on big snakes? I've seen it happen hundreds of times. Not serious research, just a little searching for fun.

John Q. does have business owning them, the same way he has business owning a ball python, boa, or a tegu. Big snakes are not the evil terror they once had the image of. A male retic, non power fed female retic, dwarf or superdwarf is MORE than within the grasp of someone with at least a little bit of snake knowledge.

With this hobby under a *expletive* microscope from PETAfreaks, HSUScreeps and every power hungry polititian capable of holding a pen, I would MUCH rather show pictures of nasty bites and teach new keepers to respect the hell out of these animals before they even THINK about getting one. Better they be scared and careful then recklessly endangering this hobby more than it already is because every single bit of bad press is used against this hobby like a blugeon.

Teach fear of these animals, the same tactic that PETA and HSUS use to keep people clear of this hobby. Makes sense. I prefer to show pictures of people safely interacting with large constrictors and learning from it.

And yeah, CMR, you may have experiance with these animals, you may not, but I have a real problem with your response to Dr Mohr and his responsible keeping of these animals with shield cages. Taking away the "human interaction componant" in most cases is the responsible thing to do.
You keep these things, probably breed and sell them. Dont make it seem as though keeping them is easy as pie when most of us know otherwise.

I don't care if you have a problem with my response to Dr. Mohr. I feel shift doors create more harm than good. A 18' snake that is never handled is going to be more of a danger to it's keeper than one that is handled with frequency. What happens when you HAVE to move that animal, and it's been so long since it's been handled it's reverted to some sort of "instinct". Have fun dealing with that angry 18' snake while I have no problem moving mine out and into a locking tote weekly to clean the cage. Keeping a large constrictor is not "easy as pie" but it certainly isn't difficult.

The woman that I was telling you about is about 5 ft 2" and has fibromyalgia....no, she shouldn't be handling the burm but her husband works for the oil company and is gone for up to several months at a time. The snake has to have the cage cleaned and she needs to be fed. Yes, she is obese....they feed her weekly....I've told them it's too often, but you can't tell Iain anything. He adores his "girl" and any time he's home she is in the kiddy pool out back with him. She is too heavy for his wife though and it's NOT safe for her to be handling them. Bite and wrap can be defensive as well, not just feeding response although wrapping can be. I see snakes wrap automatically in response to someone trying to pull them off after they latch on in a bite. Not all defensive bites are strike release. A large heavy burm that latches on and then wraps someone is very, very difficult to get off without help. I still think that safety while handling is important and that erring on the side of being more safe for the average owner is better than not. With experience you can tweek your ideas of how and why you do things. Like I said, for my venomous I try NEVER to tweek safety. No matter how mellow or non-aggressive the snake may appear to be. All the people I've ever known that were bitten by their own animals had it happen because they got complacent and didn't follow safety protocols. Large constrictors are every bit as dangerous to non-educated owners as any venomous. And right now with all the legislation against them.....every little thing that happens makes the news.

Clearly her husband cares more about his poorly cared for burm than his wife. If I had to be gone that long I would get rid of the snake rather than make my wife try to clean/care for them- he's a bad keeper, and beyond irresponsible. She should NOT be interacting with that animal, she should get it a home with someone who can work with it, regardless of what he thinks.

Nothing that has been said has changed my belief that the larger snakes should be kept by educated & experienced keepers, not your average Joe.

I wholeheartedly agree that permits should be required for them, & yes, I do believe that some dog breeds should require permits as well.

As the OP, this thread *was* started to be a wakeup call to those inexperienced who might be considering getting a larger constrictor, "because they're so cool".

The government telling me what I can and can not own, what I can and can not keep is one of the reasons this government will crumble in the next 20 years. Why make the dog breeds have a permit, when the problem isn't the breed, it's the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit.

 

[Kokopelli]

Banning and requiring permits is not the same thing. Not a single person on this thread suggested banning. Also, since obviously you are quite positive you're the only one here who knows anything... What's the point of dragging this on and on.

 

[CMRetics]

Banning and requiring permits is not the same thing. Not a single person on this thread suggested banning. Also, since obviously you are quite positive you're the only one here who knows anything... What's the point of dragging this on and on.

Permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb. I'm not the only one that knows anything. I just think people who might research and see this thread should see a view other than fear mongering from people with little experience regarding the species in question.

 

[Kokopelli]

1- You don't go into a Cornsnake site to learn about retics.

2- Your opinions are nothing more than opinions... respectable though they may be, they are still not facts.

3- "Permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb"- seriously?

I get the "don't infringe on my rights" thing... I do, but you're just being simplistic and extreme in the way you present things...

So... thankfully, we're not living in a world where it's anyone's way or the highway... and if you want to live near people who don't neccessarily share your taste in hobbies... well, I guess you'll have to cope.

 

[rich333]

Didn't mean to question your post. Heck I have no idea. It just made me think of this scene so I had to post it.

wasn't Complaining......


Got a Nice laugh Out of it! :cheers:

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb. I'm not the only one that knows anything. I just think people who might research and see this thread should see a view other than fear mongering from people with little experience regarding the species in question.

No one cared about this thread in MONTHS! No one with half a brain would look at a single solitary thread on a CORN SNAKE based site and think that was all they needed to know ever about big constrictors. That is completely stupid to assume.

1- You don't go into a Cornsnake site to learn about retics.

2- Your opinions are nothing more than opinions... respectable though they may be, they are still not facts.

3- "Permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb"- seriously?

I get the "don't infringe on my rights" thing... I do, but you're just being simplistic and extreme in the way you present things...

So... thankfully, we're not living in a world where it's anyone's way or the highway... and if you want to live near people who don't neccessarily share your taste in hobbies... well, I guess you'll have to cope.

Once again, Oren is very correct.

CMRetics I'm glad you enjoy the big constrictors, and appear to do so safely.

However, this thread is far from fear mongering. It's honest opinions from people who work with, or have worked with these animals. It's keepers being realistic.

Saying "permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb" is the most ridiculous thing you've said so far.

The average Joe, has no business owning these snakes. Putting a permit system in place is a good compromise for people in the hobby the that work with these animals.

You can have your opinions, and we can have ours. That's the way this works.

 

[MegF.]

To be honest, if I were to do research before buying a retic, and found this thread on a cornsnake forum, I might take it with a grain of salt. However, there are MANY sites for care of big constrictors and MOST of them stress the fact that these animals get BIG and as such pose a threat to a person. To deny it is to have your head in the sand. Admittedly, deaths from large constrictors are extremely rare and all have been from family pets...never from a wild python here in the US. Not true in their indigenous countries. I think a lot of the fear hype is rediculous and sensational. The crap about the burms in Florida is a perfect example. HOWEVER, this does not change the fact that there is potential for one of these large snakes to. kill. you. No matter how much I would love to deny it....one of my venomous snakes could.kill.me....I take appropriate steps to either reduce or completely negate that particular danger by putting in safety protocols that I've learned from OTHER keepers of venomous snakes and my own thoughts on what I need based on MY setup. Do I lock and mark my cages? Yes. Do I keep a protocol book with my medical history and how to treat each species I own? Yes. Will I need it? Hopefully never! Do I ever stick my hand in the cage if the snake is loose in there? No! Do I use tongs, snake hooks, blocks and locking hides? Yes! Just common sense. I don't understand why ANYONE owning a potentially dangerous animal would not take appropriate measures to avoid ANY accident that will later affect the keeping of these marvelous animals in the future. As far as Iain's wife. You are right....she SHOULD NOT BE handling that snake. I have said so to her in the past. But she loves her husband and he loves the snake and so she won't suggest it to him. If nothing else she should have someone there to help her with it. She's not strong enough. Even if the snake were 50 or 60 lbs at 12 or more feet (and the snake might be longer I'm trying to remember what he said she was) there's no way that she could manage her if she should wrap her on her own, and frankly given the right opportunity even a large man would have difficult time removing a 50 lb snake once it's wrapped completely around your body.

 

[starsevol]

Don't need to be. I've met some zoo keepers keeping their tree monitors on gravel and professional herpetologists fail at husbandry aspects. I can go take a picture with a big snake too, that doesn't make me an expert. The idea that this one guy is somehow on some pedestal over household names in big snake breeding and care, is a bit silly.


An idiot? Maybe someone here who keeps colubrids and happens to just search on the forum for information on big snakes? I've seen it happen hundreds of times. Not serious research, just a little searching for fun.

John Q. does have business owning them, the same way he has business owning a ball python, boa, or a tegu. Big snakes are not the evil terror they once had the image of. A male retic, non power fed female retic, dwarf or superdwarf is MORE than within the grasp of someone with at least a little bit of snake knowledge.


Teach fear of these animals, the same tactic that PETA and HSUS use to keep people clear of this hobby. Makes sense. I prefer to show pictures of people safely interacting with large constrictors and learning from it.


I don't care if you have a problem with my response to Dr. Mohr. I feel shift doors create more harm than good. A 18' snake that is never handled is going to be more of a danger to it's keeper than one that is handled with frequency. What happens when you HAVE to move that animal, and it's been so long since it's been handled it's reverted to some sort of "instinct". Have fun dealing with that angry 18' snake while I have no problem moving mine out and into a locking tote weekly to clean the cage. Keeping a large constrictor is not "easy as pie" but it certainly isn't difficult.


Clearly her husband cares more about his poorly cared for burm than his wife. If I had to be gone that long I would get rid of the snake rather than make my wife try to clean/care for them- he's a bad keeper, and beyond irresponsible. She should NOT be interacting with that animal, she should get it a home with someone who can work with it, regardless of what he thinks.


The government telling me what I can and can not own, what I can and can not keep is one of the reasons this government will crumble in the next 20 years. Why make the dog breeds have a permit, when the problem isn't the breed, it's the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit.

Let's get something straight here right now. I have never owned one of these animals. I will never own one of these animals. No desire in the least to own one of these animals. But, I am more apt to listen to people I know that have kept these animals over some random stranger who thinks himself some kind of expert. I could even speculate that you are a breeder trying to drum up business by downplaying the care and precautions these animals need.

Sorry, but my friend and his shield cages pretty much trump anything you can ever say. If you are what I think might be I can further speculate other things as well.

 

[MysticExotics]

The government telling me what I can and can not own, what I can and can not keep is one of the reasons this government will crumble in the next 20 years. Why make the dog breeds have a permit, when the problem isn't the breed, it's the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit.

Permits would help weed out irresponsible people from keeping animals that have the higher potential of being dangerous, like Retics & some dog breeds. For someone to go through the permit process, they would more likely be to have researched the proper care & handling & know what they're getting into. Those that do not want to go through the process of getting a permit, are more likely to be the type that don't house them properly, or don't know what is entailed in keeping that animal.

Permits are not about keeping you from owning a particular animal, they are about proving that you know how to properly care & handle that animal.
If you cannot pass a permit process, you probably shouldn't have that animal in the first place.

It's more about the person who wants to keep the potentially dangerous animal.

1- You don't go into a Cornsnake site to learn about retics.

2- Your opinions are nothing more than opinions... respectable though they may be, they are still not facts.

3- "Permits are silly, lengthy, and the process is dumb"- seriously?

I get the "don't infringe on my rights" thing... I do, but you're just being simplistic and extreme in the way you present things...

So... thankfully, we're not living in a world where it's anyone's way or the highway... and if you want to live near people who don't neccessarily share your taste in hobbies... well, I guess you'll have to cope.

Well said Oren, I agree!

 

[chris68]

it's the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit.

Don't you think that guy should have to get a permit? Or is every breeder of large constrictors going to stand up for whats right and NOT sell anymore to "stereotypical owners"?

They are awesome animals that have the (well documented) possibility of killing their owner. We're not blaming the snake, but Mr "stereotypical Keeper" gets killed every year. Doesn't matter if it's just one a year either, it makes the news every single time...

 

[MegF.]

Not even one person is killed by large constrictors per year. There's been about 10 or something like that since 1977.....recently there were two but that's still not the norm. Snakes killing keepers, whether large constrictors or venomous are still extremely rare. That said, making them out to be super easy and no risk at all is not correct either. The risks and dangers of owning a large constrictor should be made perfectly clear to someone buying. If I were selling large constrictors the first question I'd ask is if they've kept snakes before and what types and for how long. I want to know that they have at least a minimal amount of information on taking care of snakes in general and hopefully some idea of what they are getting. I rescued a burm from some people that at 3 years old was smaller than my cornsnake in weight and only slightly larger in girth. It had been fed 1 live small mouse every 2 weeks for as long as they'd had it...the heat lamp was not regulated...I shut it off when my thermometer reached 110 degrees, had a stuck on shed and no hides. I found an appropriate home for it with someone who owned large constrictors already. I had fed it a small f/t rat, made hides for it and put a thermostat on the heat lamp and worked the old shed off. They didn't even know what species of snake they had!

 

[CMRetics]

Let's get something straight here right now. I have never owned one of these animals. I will never own one of these animals. No desire in the least to own one of these animals. But, I am more apt to listen to people I know that have kept these animals over some random stranger who thinks himself some kind of expert. I could even speculate that you are a breeder trying to drum up business by downplaying the care and precautions these animals need.

Sorry, but my friend and his shield cages pretty much trump anything you can ever say. If you are what I think might be I can further speculate other things as well.

Oh goody. Speculate all you like, it really does not bother me one bit.

Don't you think that guy should have to get a permit? Or is every breeder of large constrictors going to stand up for whats right and NOT sell anymore to "stereotypical owners"?

They are awesome animals that have the (well documented) possibility of killing their owner. We're not blaming the snake, but Mr "stereotypical Keeper" gets killed every year. Doesn't matter if it's just one a year either, it makes the news every single time...

I'm all for responsible education. I'm not for permits, government control, and instilling fear of this animal. It's not a complex one to keep, it really isn't hard. Is it a walk in the park like a ball python is (that any 6+ year old can keep) no, but is the care hard? No. Is the handing of a superdwarf/dwarf up to around 6-8 foot difficult? No. Most people have been around a boa, and can understand that it's not very difficult to handle an adult (some exceptions for a few monster boas I've seen.).

As for the person with the friend with the overweight burm. She's putting herself at huge risk. I'd never ask that of my wife, I'd at least ask someone I knew to come help her. They are putting themselves in a bad spot and it's a shame the husband cares more about the snake than her. Not your typical case though.

As for me trying to erase fear to get sales- I don't even have hatchlings available (early June though!). Even so, that is far from the truth. I spent considerable amounts of time on each customer at the last expo I vended. I sat with one guy over an hour asking questions back and forth before he ended up settling on a 50% dwarf male. I sold a 10 foot female a few weeks back, and I declined the first 8 people with cash in hand and took a price 1/4 what they offered- because she went with someone who had cared for several 15'+ animals and wanted his own retic, he knew what he was doing.

So no, I'm not here to push sales, I'm here to let people know - big snakes are not as dangerous or scary as people make them out to be.

 

[Nanci]

I'm pretty sure most of us here don't think they are scary, or dangerous, if not treated stupidly. I think many in favor of permits are reacting to the over-legislation which occurs when some idiot keeps a large snake in a tank with a burlap sack tied on top to keep it in, and then everyone is horrified when the snake gets out and kills a baby, so "something must be done." Same scared reaction as there was with Sandy Hook, except gun owners could effectively fight back. What I mean is, we know that irresponsible giant snake owners are ruining reptile-owning freedom for everyone. And permits are better than an outright ban.

 

[Kokopelli]

So no, I'm not here to push sales, I'm here to let people know - big snakes are not as dangerous or scary as people make them out to be.

You cannot seriously continue basing your entire case on the fact that -you- are responsible. You represent a fracture of a fracture of a community, and you cannot claim responsibility for all of them.

Can these animals overcome a human being? yes. Are they potentially dangerous? yes. Can they currently be kept by irresponsible people? yes.
I oppose bans, but I also oppose people who deal with potentially dangerous animals and refuse to adhere to -any- sort of protocol.

I know of teenagers that managed to get their hands on Burmese and Reticulated pythons- the fact that none of them died because of it is plain luck. Roll the dice enough times and you will "score" at some point.

Statistics show that number of snake fatalities and injuries are very uncommon- but we do need to remember that this number is derived out of a relatively small community of animal handlers(there are more people dealing with dogs, cats, cows and horses than there are snake keepers)- so, less keepers in total, naturally there will be fewer reported incidents.

You have a right to keep a retic just as much as I have a right to keep cornsnake- my cornsnake does not endanger me or my neighbors, no matter the circumstances.

You cannot seriously believe that your personal trust of your animals, which is insanely subjective, is guarantee enough against the potential damage such animals can inflict in the wrong hands.

This isn't about you- this is about every single human being who can potentially own such an animal.

All snakes can potentially bite- the level of potential lethality when things go wrong is the only parameter that matters. I don't care how much you lecture that your snakes are puppy tame and refuse to bite- no one in their right mind would allow a keepers' personal opinion of his animals to serve as an arbiter- you're not objective, and even if you are, the next keeper might not be. Not everyone is honest, and the by-stander has absolutely 0 ways of judging either way.

 

[MegF.]

I honestly don't think we are talking about dwarfs here. We're talking about full grown burmese, anacondas. rock pythons and reticulated pythons. They are extremely large and heavy when fully grown. Two are listed as the worlds largest and heaviest snake. A full grown reticulated python is indeed a big snake, heavy snake and dangerous snake if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think it's highly irresponsible to suggest that having one or more people around to assist with a large snake when it gets to be big enough to kill you should it go into feeding mode or even defensive mode is wrong. I personally think it's foolish and cocky to believe that you shouldn't have someone around and that you think you could pull a full grown retic or anaconda off if it chose to wrap you. Even a small constrictor can be difficult to remove once it's decided it's going to hold on. The man that was killed by his burm in his home ended up having law enforcement stab and shoot it to get it off. Now...they probably have zero experience in removing a constrictor of any kind but I'm sure we've all seen enough nature shows to see how difficult it is to handle a large pissed off constrictor even with experienced help. I think it's wonderful to have a passion for a species. I think it's great to help educate people about them and how they are not what people think. I do that in schools and groups all the time..including educating people how venomous snakes are not what people think and weren't out to get them. I also stress though that they can be dangerous and it's best to leave them alone...or in the case of large constrictors, to have people around in case you need help. I try to always have my husband around if I'm working with the hots. I want to make sure that there is someone to make a phonecall or help me if necessary. Can it always be that way? No. As for my friend. I agree with you. Risking his wife like that is not a good thing...but that's him. However, you're saying it's okay if it were just her owning the snake even if she can't manage it safely on her own. Frankly, that snake could take down her husband if it wanted to....even a 50 lb snake can wrap and hold an adult man if it's got length on it. Wrap and arm or two and you will have a hell of a time getting loose....which I'm sure you'll deny. Fact is...a snake is muscle with some scales. They are strong for their size and any snake that can completely wrap you several times around the body or neck (and no, I'm not talking your cornsnake or ball) has potential to be lethal. Talking down to someone because they choose to be safe is hardly right either. It would be like me talking trash about someone that uses locking hides for their hots (oh wait, that's me) or uses shields because they want to reduce the chance of a feeding response while working in the cage.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Oh goody. Speculate all you like, it really does not bother me one bit.

You are doing a pretty good job of that yourself.

I'm all for responsible education. I'm not for permits, government control, and instilling fear of this animal. It's not a complex one to keep, it really isn't hard. Is it a walk in the park like a ball python is (that any 6+ year old can keep) no, but is the care hard? No. Is the handing of a superdwarf/dwarf up to around 6-8 foot difficult? No. Most people have been around a boa, and can understand that it's not very difficult to handle an adult (some exceptions for a few monster boas I've seen.).

Because all the retics available for sale are super dwarfs! Totally see how this fixes everything! Oh...wait.... only a very small percentage of animals for sale are super dwarfs. So yeah, not buying into that argument. Most of what's out there are the ones that get well over 10 to 15 ft or more.

As for me trying to erase fear to get sales- I don't even have hatchlings available (early June though!). Even so, that is far from the truth. I spent considerable amounts of time on each customer at the last expo I vended. I sat with one guy over an hour asking questions back and forth before he ended up settling on a 50% dwarf male. I sold a 10 foot female a few weeks back, and I declined the first 8 people with cash in hand and took a price 1/4 what they offered- because she went with someone who had cared for several 15'+ animals and wanted his own retic, he knew what he was doing.

This hero has refused sales! All vendors must be like this!

Buddy, I have refused corn snakes sales because I thought the people were incompetent. It's what responsible breeders SHOULD DO WITH EVERY SPECIES, not just big ones. It's called ethics, and EVERY breeder/seller should practice it.

But all retic breeders are ethical according you! No one would ever sell to stupid kids or people who don't know how to care for them properly!

Well explain this; 2 years ago at a show a vendor sold a 7ft retic to a 19 year boy three tables down from me. The vendor told the boy the snake was super chill and like a puppy and he should just carry around. So the boy drapes the snake, which he has never personally worked with before and only took the vendor's word, around his shoulders. The boy walks down a few tables and while I'm working with a customer the retic decides it's had enough of this crap, lunges and bites me. A bite and release to my side, then a bite to the back of my head. I was a bloody mess by the time we got the snake off.

So who is at fault here?

The vendor who told the boy the snake was fine and he should go ahead and engage in unsafe behavior with potentially dangerous snake. He only asked the boy if he had a cage large enough, not once did he ask the boy if he knew anything about the care of these types of snake.

The 19 year old boy who took the vendor at his word, and engaged in unsafe behavior with a snake he had just purchased and had no first hand knowledge of it's personality.

Or me, for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time when the snake decided to go off.

Or how about this one:

Last weekend at a show, a young man was walking around with a retic on his shoulders. It bit a young boy in the face. So clearly he is a responsible owner? I think not.

Same show last weekend.

A vendor was talking to a man with a young son (7-8 years old), the man knew nothing about retics. The vendor spewed off the most cockamamie story about retic care I have ever heard. He told the man that the boy and snake would do great growing up together and that even at 12ft, the boy would be able to handle the animals by himself if they grew up together.

For every one vendor that grills customers and engages in ethical sales, there are MANY more who don't. The almighty dollar is more important than anything else.

The government telling me what I can and can not own, what I can and can not keep is one of the reasons this government will crumble in the next 20 years. Why make the dog breeds have a permit, when the problem isn't the breed, it's the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit.

But it's the people that keep selling the "stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit" that are the problem here.

Should we just tell the State of Florida to do away with the conditional species permit because CMRetics says it's okay and that it's just the stereotype owner with the animal handling knowledge of a grapefruit that is the real problem?

I think not.

A permit system forces people to think before buying and it also weeds out the less than savory vendors selling to uneducated consumers.

NO ONE who is keeping their collection properly and safely should EVER fear a permit. Permit do not punish anyone who is doing things the right way.

Since you are so afraid of permits, that makes me wonder more about you.

So no, I'm not here to push sales, I'm here to let people know - big snakes are not as dangerous or scary as people make them out to be.

It sure sounds like you are just here to push sales.

Responsible and ethical breeders acknowledge the risk and potential hazards of these snakes. You seem to insist everyone that is smarter than a grapefruit should be able to own on, I think not.

It takes knowledge and skill to manage these animals properly, if you can do it, GREAT! Good for you! The vast majority of the public can not, and should not. They need logical education and facts, then they can make a choice based on what they think they are capable of.

Don't dumb stuff down. Don't make it seem like a cake-walk. A healthy respect for what the animals are capable of is the best starting block for a new keeper.

I used to keep burm and retics myself. I loved my big male burm like he was part of the family. He was gentle and easy to handle, but I would still never handle him alone. The only reason we decided to stop keeping burms and retics back in the day was after my motorcycle wreck, I was slower and lost strength on my left side.

It's not about them not being as big or scary as you think. It's about responsible, honest education and information.

I can make motorcycles seem not as scary or dangerous, but they still are and people need to understand the limits and how to be safe with them.

ANYTHING can be dumbed down to the point where it seems safe, but that does not change the fact that is reason to treat it with caution and respect.

 

[CMRetics]

Somehow- the irresponsible actions of few dictate the consequences of many for you guys. Just because a few people keep things irresponsibly and get hurt or have others get hurt does not mean the rest of the responsible people need to have "permits".

This is the same stupidity pushed by the people wanting to ban guns.

Didn't even read any of the above posts more than the one about the one in FL that killed the baby- that guy shoulda been flat out shot to death and had no business owning an animal, a kid, or breathing, but just because he messed up doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished, and that other responsible owners should have to go through permits.

Oh, and before you act like permits are no big deal if your responsible- there isn't the funding to enforce it, it will be hell to get the 1 person in the US that will be appointed to approve you, because if you think they will waste more time/money on it than that- you're foolish.

 

[Nanci]

To clarify, I am not in favor of permits. I'm not saying we all _should_ be punished, but we ARE punished.

I certainly would not look forward to a government official coming through my house, perusing my collection and set-up, annually...