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Would you keep it alive??

Would you let it live? how many clutches do you produce a year?

  • Yes, 9 or less (0-9)

    Votes: 36 61.0%
  • No, 9 or less (0-9)

    Votes: 13 22.0%
  • Yes, a few (20-25)

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • No, a few (10-25)

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • Yes, many (26+)

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • No, many (26+)

    Votes: 3 5.1%

  • Total voters
    59

mike17l

Self-Admitted Duckoholic
This poll is in reference to this thread about a disfigured snake.

So the question is, if you hatched out a disfigured and kinked animal that ate, would you keep it alive? Please make sure you indicate the number of clutches you produce per year.



There is no place to edit a poll
Please Note: "Yes, a few (20-25)" should read "Yes, a few (10-25)"
 
Tough call. But I voted yes, 9 or less.
I would give it away to someone that just wanted a pet. I would not sell or keep it. And if there were no takers? I don't know. But space is tight here.
Editing to add. but I don't feel it's my place or anybody else's to judge what another person would do in this situation.
 
Last edited:
If it ate, defecated, and shed without issues, and there were no behavioral problems, yes. I would keep it alive. And then I agree with Jen. Give it to someone who wants a pet.
 
I voted yes 26+

Like Jen, my space has a limit. I don't know that I would keep it for myself and I would not sell it to anyone that was going to breed it. I would find a home for it as a pet.

That is on the conditions that it was healthy enough to eat and survive. If it was going to be a problem snake that was eventually going to die, I would hasten that end.
 
it looks like only one "no" vote so far, I wonder who's vote that is.
I'm cramped for space and am hardly bill gates, so I think it's a moral issue not a financial issue.
We should'nt justify our opinions with a poll either, 99% could vote to kill an otherwise healthy deformed snake, and I would disagree with all of them.
 
A poll won't justify anyone's opinions, it's just a chance to express them.
I'll admit to having fought to keep Lil alive, deciding I can never chance breeding her and possibly producing a whole clutch of problem children, then helping to get a kinked non-feeding pet on the road to recovery as a favour for someone else, on the grounds he only wanted his pet to have a chance at survival.
But out of my grand total of 3 clutches this year, I didn't hesitate to euthanise 2 kinked hatchlings, and if Annie's deformed pippies had managed to hatch I'd have done the same.
This is my choice as a breeder, to only raise the healthiest of my hatchlings and not knowingly raise corns with defective genes.
 
No. I don't have room for another snake, so if kept alive, I'd have to rehome it.

If I rehomed it, I could never be sure that:
a) it wouldn't be used to breed in future, even if the new owner gave me a guarantee,
b) the owner would always have the financial ability to get vet help with any associated health problems that might develop as it grows.
 
As a non-breeder I voted yes... I think it depends on the situation and how badly deformed the little one is, and if it will affect it's life in the future...
 
I would honestly put it down if it were mine unless I could give it away as a pet. I quickly got to the point where I couldn't find ANYone else to give surplus corns to. I'm curious, how does the number of clutches produced impact what one would do with a deformed animal?
 
Give it to someone who wants a pet.

I voted yes 26+

Like Jen, my space has a limit. I don't know that I would keep it for myself and I would not sell it to anyone that was going to breed it. I would find a home for it as a pet.

That is on the conditions that it was healthy enough to eat and survive. If it was going to be a problem snake that was eventually going to die, I would hasten that end.


I did keep a kinked snake and as I type am in the process of giving it a new home, so "Yes"

No. I don't have room for another snake, so if kept alive, I'd have to rehome it.

If I rehomed it, I could never be sure that:
a) it wouldn't be used to breed in future, even if the new owner gave me a guarantee,
b) the owner would always have the financial ability to get vet help with any associated health problems that might develop as it grows.


But out of my grand total of 3 clutches this year, I didn't hesitate to euthanise 2 kinked hatchlings, and if Annie's deformed pippies had managed to hatch I'd have done the same.
This is my choice as a breeder, to only raise the healthiest of my hatchlings and not knowingly raise corns with defective genes.

So for the majority of post up to this point, most everyone has said they would "rehome" it. As the breeder, is there really any difference between this and humanely euthanizing it? Seriously, my reason for the thread was to find out who was willing to take the responsibility of keeping this animal from birth to death. Jeff Mohr it seems is the only person who is willing to do this, most everyone else would "rehome" the animal, "passing the buck," so to say. Agreed?

I would honestly put it down if it were mine unless I could give it away as a pet. I quickly got to the point where I couldn't find ANYone else to give surplus corns to. I'm curious, how does the number of clutches produced impact what one would do with a deformed animal?

The number of clutches/number of animals directly impacts the space and finances available for someone to put into a "lesser" animal. Personally, I do not have the time or space to put into a kinked/deformed baby, all of mine are humanely euthanized.


I received this via PM, so there is no name.
I actually think you are a strong person for being able to PTS (put to sleep) kinked or deformed but viable animals that you produce. There can't possibly be enough pet homes out there for all of them. It will be very tough for me to do that, when I breed.
Another great reason to euthanize deformed hatchlings. I do not do it, but I would not doubt it if there are some breeders that euthanize many normal perfectly healthy animals. Possible reasons: they do not want competition if the animals are "project animals" and/or the market is already flooded.

Is there really a difference when it comes down to it between this practice and wholesaling neonates out of the egg. Seriously how many wholesaled neonates make it? I dont know but I doubt it is more than 75% prolly more like 50% I would assume that it is the same odds for pet store snakes.


Just some thoughts for yall to think about.
 
I didn't actually vote, but the "kinked" part of the equation is what would have me euthanize immediately. If it was eyeless or some other "benign" deformity, I'd give it a chance. 23 clutches this year. 14 last year.

D80
 
I voted no (less than 9 is actually 1 clutch EVER for me) but I have to clarify that further. If we were talking about a very rare mutation like a two headed snake or a snake with one or no eyes etc, I would keep it. I can't think of a 'nice' way to say that, I'm sure some people will think I'm mean. I just find the 'freaks' fascinating. Nature is facsinating and such an animal is a real lesson that way. I wouldn't sell them, I definitely would not breed them... I also wouldn't keep it alive if it seemed to suffer.
But I wouldn't keep every little kinked guy, no.
 
I admit it, I'm the PM. I haven't bred my snakes yet, so I have no idea what I would do as a breeder. Probably give CPR to conjoined headless twins- I don't know. I do recognize, though, that especially for a large breeder there are limits in who you can actually find a pet home for. One of the reasons I chose higher-end morphs for my two projects is because I worry even about my ability to find homes for normals or other more common morphs. I'm not so worried about finding homes for opal stripes.

I _have_ a severely kinked snake. I didn't buy her that way- she developed the kinks as she grew. Of course, she is the most entertaining, active, out-going yearling I have. She is out, doing something, all the time, every evening. If a snake can be said to "enjoy life," she is the one who most actively displays that. She sheds normally and eats vigorously and keeps up in growth with a similarly-sized normal snake.

Still- I didn't plan for or want a snake with such a handicap. I wouldn't have adopted her as such, though I wouldn't have faulted someone else for doing so. But now that I "know" her and am attached to her and invested in her care, I have no interest in euthing her, although her condition has been discussed with my vet who will do that if/when we decide she has a poor quality of life. She is now my pet, and I will love and cherish her as long as she is with me, and will not keep her hanging on if she suffers.

Maybe you're wondering who she is. She has had very limited, well-cropped photoshoots, because I've been guiltily hiding her away. Now, with so many showing support of keeping kinked but viable snakes as PETS, definitely not breeding stock, I may feature her in a real photoshoot.

So, I admire Jeff and others for the stance that a one-eyed snake, or a minimally kinked snake deserves a chance either with the breeder with room or in a nice pet home. I _love_ it that Jeff feels like this: "And what will one get in return? To many, the intrinsic living value of a snake (normal, albino, deformed or otherwise) may outweigh any monetary value. I'm sure there are lots of people on this site that love their corn and don't love it less because it is a normal or albino or snow.

By the shear fact that I've kept this corn illustrates that he has a purpose in my collection. In fact, I actually get great joy in watching him grow and am fascinated that he lived when so many others would have dumped him in the freezer or the kingsnake cage because his monetary value would be less then the first pinkie he ate."

But it takes a strong person to _not_ keep deformed babies. I am very strongly opposed to culling healthy but not-desireable common morphs. I don't consider this situation to be comparable. I guess that's why I sent a PM to Mike- I'm ambivalent. I, as a future breeder, want to value life, but not preserve those with serious deformities. Along the continuity from one-eyed, no-eyed, invisible kink, visible but low kink, major proximal kink, many kinks, kink so severe snake cannot move normally or is prevented from eating/shedding, everyone has to draw a line, pick their place- who will they keep themselves, who will they find a pet home for, who will they sell at a reduced price, who will they give away as a "bonus" freebie, who will they cull. I don't think I can know where my place is till I actually have to experience it, but I suspect that I would attempt to find nice pet homes for minimally kinked snakes or eyeless snakes. I'd have to find the strength to PTS the ones worse off.
 
I admit it, I'm the PM. I haven't bred my snakes yet, so I have no idea what I would do as a breeder. Probably give CPR to conjoined headless twins- I don't know. I do recognize, though, that especially for a large breeder there are limits in who you can actually find a pet home for. One of the reasons I chose higher-end morphs for my two projects is because I worry even about my ability to find homes for normals or other more common morphs. I'm not so worried about finding homes for opal stripes.

I _have_ a severely kinked snake. I didn't buy her that way- she developed the kinks as she grew. Of course, she is the most entertaining, active, out-going yearling I have. She is out, doing something, all the time, every evening. If a snake can be said to "enjoy life," she is the one who most actively displays that. She sheds normally and eats vigorously and keeps up in growth with a similarly-sized normal snake.

Still- I didn't plan for or want a snake with such a handicap. I wouldn't have adopted her as such, though I wouldn't have faulted someone else for doing so. But now that I "know" her and am attached to her and invested in her care, I have no interest in euthing her, although her condition has been discussed with my vet who will do that if/when we decide she has a poor quality of life. She is now my pet, and I will love and cherish her as long as she is with me, and will not keep her hanging on if she suffers.

Maybe you're wondering who she is. She has had very limited, well-cropped photoshoots, because I've been guiltily hiding her away. Now, with so many showing support of keeping kinked but viable snakes as PETS, definitely not breeding stock, I may feature her in a real photoshoot.

So, I admire Jeff and others for the stance that a one-eyed snake, or a minimally kinked snake deserves a chance either with the breeder with room or in a nice pet home. I _love_ it that Jeff feels like this: "And what will one get in return? To many, the intrinsic living value of a snake (normal, albino, deformed or otherwise) may outweigh any monetary value. I'm sure there are lots of people on this site that love their corn and don't love it less because it is a normal or albino or snow.

By the shear fact that I've kept this corn illustrates that he has a purpose in my collection. In fact, I actually get great joy in watching him grow and am fascinated that he lived when so many others would have dumped him in the freezer or the kingsnake cage because his monetary value would be less then the first pinkie he ate."

But it takes a strong person to _not_ keep deformed babies. I am very strongly opposed to culling healthy but not-desireable common morphs. I don't consider this situation to be comparable. I guess that's why I sent a PM to Mike- I'm ambivalent. I, as a future breeder, want to value life, but not preserve those with serious deformities. Along the continuity from one-eyed, no-eyed, invisible kink, visible but low kink, major proximal kink, many kinks, kink so severe snake cannot move normally or is prevented from eating/shedding, everyone has to draw a line, pick their place- who will they keep themselves, who will they find a pet home for, who will they sell at a reduced price, who will they give away as a "bonus" freebie, who will they cull. I don't think I can know where my place is till I actually have to experience it, but I suspect that I would attempt to find nice pet homes for minimally kinked snakes or eyeless snakes. I'd have to find the strength to PTS the ones worse off.

That is very well said Nanci! I didn't vote, simply because I do not breed and becuase I feel similarly to Nanci. I can't really know my position until I experience it, though I know if the animal is in pain or will be unable to have the proper measure of life, I would not allow it to suffer.

*hugs to Nanci* Good luck with your special snake! :)
 
I suppose I just feel so strongly about caring for a snake that's deformed, but otherwise healthy and not suffering because I was born with a very rare muscular disease, not to sound like I'm pittying myself but I was never supposed to walk and I was supposed to live out a life in bed, and had it not been for a dedicated single mother who knows if I would had overcome my disability.
I learned to walk at the age of 3 and now carry a normal life, other than the fact I have very low muscle mass and I can't run or jump, and I feel that other people build larger barriers for me than my disease and had I not been born who I was I would not have the knowledge I have.
And although snakes maybe seen as totally different, I feel like it's the same thing, I love reptiles because of the deep history and ecology of our planets creatures, and a snake may have been born deformed but it is so much more amazing in that regard, that the species has survived and evolved so much in the wild and changed so much in captivity, yet a one eyed snake has the same role of carrying on the species as any other.
To me money cannot be the factor to justify the means, because I am just as limited financially, and for space as alot of breeders and I still do not agree with "killing the freaks".
The great thing about reptiles is how we've formed enough as a society to try to care for them and understand them, and it's that constant understanding that fascinates me more than all of the money in the world, that through evolution a snake has been perfectly designed to adapt to millions of years of an ever changing world, and now it's the unusual color morphs that is the biggest reason for them surviving the human footprint, and on top of that a snake that was born with only one eye is happily thriving in captivity due to the care of someone who really cares about how sacred all life is.
Maybe it's too long of post, but I just thought I would share my full feelings to bring a better understanding of why I think it's important to not only care for these creatures, but to truly respect there place in evolution.
 
I would keep it, because again it's the breeders RESPONSIBILITY to take the best care of any reptile that is'nt suffering.
Please let me know what the visible signs of suffering are so I can add that to my knowledge base. :shrugs: You're telling me it's my responsibility to care for something that I can't (and I don't honestly believe you can either) identify. Our definitions of suffering just may be different. While I sympathize, empathize and care about your personal health and well being, I take offense to you comparing those human conditions to animals. Regardless of what PETA would like you to believe, WE as humans have very little idea of what animals are actually (not) feeling or (not) thinking.

D80
 
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